4 ms·

Chrome for Android working on optimizing page rendering via SPDY proxy servers

50 points by patrickaljord 14y ago

Achshar 14y ago
With opera moving towards chromium, it appears chromium is moving towards opera too. But this only leads to fuel the whole Google privacy snafu.
- Osiris 14y ago
  Not exactly true (unless you have some inside information). Opera announced they are replacing their rendering engine with WebKit. There's been no announcement that they are dumping the entire browser (which is a lot more than just the rendering engine) to release a custom Chromium build.
  - kinlan 14y ago
    Opera are moving to WebKit using the chromium project http://my.opera.com/ODIN/blog/300-million-users-and-move-to-webkit http://my.opera.com/ODIN/blog/300-million-users-and-move-to-...
ksec 14y ago
Great, would this be available on Desktop too?
- jacquesm 14y ago
  Besides possible interpretation issues (with the text of TFA), what is so great about something like that? The whole idea of the web is: the client decides how it renders the data. If we targeted a remote hosted bit mapped graphics terminal with a VNC like sharing protocol then the web would have never taken off. But of course, the last line of defense in undoing the web is to host VMs running your application and just sending over the bitmaps. In the end this may be inevitable but I'll stick to HTTP as long as it is feasible. These 'improvements' are a step back. More bandwidth to mobile would be an improvement, as would be a mobile infrastructure without silly caps (you know, like we had 5 years ago).
- EricBurnett 14y ago
  The major benefits would come from mitigating the (generally) higher latencies and lower bandwidth of mobile. What gains you'd get on desktop would be countered by the extra hop traffic would require. Overall I doubt desktop users would get much benefit from this feature.
- tonfa 14y ago
  SPDY proxy is there since a long time: http://www.igvita.com/2012/06/25/spdy-and-secure-proxy-support-in-google-chrome/ http://www.igvita.com/2012/06/25/spdy-and-secure-proxy-suppo... (you have to run your own proxy though).
magnetikonline 14y ago
The title is somewhat misleading - this change is using Google servers to proxy SPDY traffic to/from a client browser for speed. It's not using the proxy for "rendering" of actual pages, or parts thereof.
- derefr 14y ago
  So, much more similar to CloudFlare, then.
- micampe 14y ago
  The linked commit describes it as "Data Compression Proxy, Reduce data consumption by loading optimized web pages via Google proxy servers".
  - revelation 14y ago
    That might just be a layer doing lossy compression and sending the result to you using SPDY. No rendering.
crb 14y ago
Yet another great post from François Beaufort introducing an upcoming feature being developed in Chromium. I wonder - does François work for Google, or is he just a watcher on the repositories?
hosay123 14y ago
Every time a service like this appears (along with Fiber, Google DNS, Ajax Libs, Google Analytics, ..) I'm left feeling that traffic data produced as a side product is somehow being reused internally. My wild (and least paranoid) guess is search quality: measuring site popularity using bandwidth as a proxy would be incredibly difficult for spammers to fake on a large scale, and when capturing logs for what increasingly appears to be the comprehensive majority of Internet traffic, we're talking really large scale. Given user reports and experiences of Google DNS, it seems at least its stated aim is barely satisfied in the general case: it is often slower than local ISP servers. Similarly, sticking a proxy between a user and their destination may add more latency than it could ever save, leading me to somewhat doubt the public reason these services exist.
- Mahn 14y ago
  > I'm left feeling that traffic data produced as a side product is somehow being reused internally Of course. One has to be very naive to believe data traveling to their servers is being immediately discarded. This reminds me of a story I saw once by Onavo, a mobile app which reduces data usage by acting as a middleman and compressing the data before it reaches the phone. The story however talked about which apps made the most revenue; and guess how they knew: http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/08/onavo-mobile-games-grossing/ http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/08/onavo-mobile-games-grossing... The company looked at game usage among their U.S. iPhone users in November. Then they looked at the market share, or the percentage of their U.S.-based iPhone owners that use these games on a monthly basis.
- EricBurnett 14y ago
  > Given user reports and experiences of Google DNS, it seems at least its stated aim is barely satisfied in the general case: it is often slower than local ISP servers. I don't think the claim is being made that it's better in all cases. As I understand it, Google DNS is (positioned as) a secure, ad-free resolver, and tries to be as fast as possible. In practice if there is a better resolver - say, run by your ISP - for you to use, you should use that. But often ISP resolvers fail in one dimension or another, in which case Google DNS is available as a viable alternative. Incidentally, to your question of what data is being collected: https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/privacy https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/privacy > Similarly, sticking a proxy between a user and their destination may add more latency than it could ever save, leading me to somewhat doubt the public reason these services exist. Again, in the general case that might be true. I wouldn't want to use a SPDY proxy on my desktop at home, for example, as it wouldn't be able to offer me any speedup. But it's already known that similar services can provide significant benefits on mobile - look at Opera Mini. Useful feature != beneficial for everyone.
k_bx 14y ago
offtopic: did new Chrome broke fonts completely only for me? They're now blurry so I had to switch to Firefox.
- kinlan 14y ago
  On android we switched to a thing called impl side painting which helps hugely with scrolling performance and other graphics. It could be that, file a bug on crbug.com/new with your system details and pages where it happens.
  - blinkingled 14y ago
    There's https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=174699 https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=174699 and they seem to have identified the culprit patch. Wonder how m25 was rolled out given how bad the fonts look and how many people it impacted.
exterm 14y ago
Learn from the best - again, a leading browser vendor is adopting a feature pioneered by opera. I wonder whether there is any correlation with the demo of a new opera mobile version last week that is essentially chrome with turbo.

50 points by patrickaljord 14y ago

With opera moving towards chromium, it appears chromium is moving towards opera too. But this only leads to fuel the whole Google privacy snafu.

Osiris 14y ago
Not exactly true (unless you have some inside information). Opera announced they are replacing their rendering engine with WebKit. There's been no announcement that they are dumping the entire browser (which is a lot more than just the rendering engine) to release a custom Chromium build.
- kinlan 14y ago
  Opera are moving to WebKit using the chromium project http://my.opera.com/ODIN/blog/300-million-users-and-move-to-webkit http://my.opera.com/ODIN/blog/300-million-users-and-move-to-...

ksec 14y ago

Great, would this be available on Desktop too?

jacquesm 14y ago
Besides possible interpretation issues (with the text of TFA), what is so great about something like that? The whole idea of the web is: the client decides how it renders the data. If we targeted a remote hosted bit mapped graphics terminal with a VNC like sharing protocol then the web would have never taken off. But of course, the last line of defense in undoing the web is to host VMs running your application and just sending over the bitmaps. In the end this may be inevitable but I'll stick to HTTP as long as it is feasible. These 'improvements' are a step back. More bandwidth to mobile would be an improvement, as would be a mobile infrastructure without silly caps (you know, like we had 5 years ago).
EricBurnett 14y ago
The major benefits would come from mitigating the (generally) higher latencies and lower bandwidth of mobile. What gains you'd get on desktop would be countered by the extra hop traffic would require. Overall I doubt desktop users would get much benefit from this feature.
tonfa 14y ago
SPDY proxy is there since a long time: http://www.igvita.com/2012/06/25/spdy-and-secure-proxy-support-in-google-chrome/ http://www.igvita.com/2012/06/25/spdy-and-secure-proxy-suppo... (you have to run your own proxy though).

magnetikonline 14y ago

The title is somewhat misleading - this change is using Google servers to proxy SPDY traffic to/from a client browser for speed. It's not using the proxy for "rendering" of actual pages, or parts thereof.

derefr 14y ago
So, much more similar to CloudFlare, then.
micampe 14y ago
The linked commit describes it as "Data Compression Proxy, Reduce data consumption by loading optimized web pages via Google proxy servers".
- revelation 14y ago
  That might just be a layer doing lossy compression and sending the result to you using SPDY. No rendering.

crb 14y ago

Yet another great post from François Beaufort introducing an upcoming feature being developed in Chromium. I wonder - does François work for Google, or is he just a watcher on the repositories?

hosay123 14y ago

Every time a service like this appears (along with Fiber, Google DNS, Ajax Libs, Google Analytics, ..) I'm left feeling that traffic data produced as a side product is somehow being reused internally. My wild (and least paranoid) guess is search quality: measuring site popularity using bandwidth as a proxy would be incredibly difficult for spammers to fake on a large scale, and when capturing logs for what increasingly appears to be the comprehensive majority of Internet traffic, we're talking really large scale. Given user reports and experiences of Google DNS, it seems at least its stated aim is barely satisfied in the general case: it is often slower than local ISP servers. Similarly, sticking a proxy between a user and their destination may add more latency than it could ever save, leading me to somewhat doubt the public reason these services exist.

Mahn 14y ago
> I'm left feeling that traffic data produced as a side product is somehow being reused internally Of course. One has to be very naive to believe data traveling to their servers is being immediately discarded. This reminds me of a story I saw once by Onavo, a mobile app which reduces data usage by acting as a middleman and compressing the data before it reaches the phone. The story however talked about which apps made the most revenue; and guess how they knew: http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/08/onavo-mobile-games-grossing/ http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/08/onavo-mobile-games-grossing... The company looked at game usage among their U.S. iPhone users in November. Then they looked at the market share, or the percentage of their U.S.-based iPhone owners that use these games on a monthly basis.
EricBurnett 14y ago
> Given user reports and experiences of Google DNS, it seems at least its stated aim is barely satisfied in the general case: it is often slower than local ISP servers. I don't think the claim is being made that it's better in all cases. As I understand it, Google DNS is (positioned as) a secure, ad-free resolver, and tries to be as fast as possible. In practice if there is a better resolver - say, run by your ISP - for you to use, you should use that. But often ISP resolvers fail in one dimension or another, in which case Google DNS is available as a viable alternative. Incidentally, to your question of what data is being collected: https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/privacy https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/privacy > Similarly, sticking a proxy between a user and their destination may add more latency than it could ever save, leading me to somewhat doubt the public reason these services exist. Again, in the general case that might be true. I wouldn't want to use a SPDY proxy on my desktop at home, for example, as it wouldn't be able to offer me any speedup. But it's already known that similar services can provide significant benefits on mobile - look at Opera Mini. Useful feature != beneficial for everyone.

k_bx 14y ago

offtopic: did new Chrome broke fonts completely only for me? They're now blurry so I had to switch to Firefox.

kinlan 14y ago
On android we switched to a thing called impl side painting which helps hugely with scrolling performance and other graphics. It could be that, file a bug on crbug.com/new with your system details and pages where it happens.
- blinkingled 14y ago
  There's https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=174699 https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=174699 and they seem to have identified the culprit patch. Wonder how m25 was rolled out given how bad the fonts look and how many people it impacted.

exterm 14y ago

Learn from the best - again, a leading browser vendor is adopting a feature pioneered by opera. I wonder whether there is any correlation with the demo of a new opera mobile version last week that is essentially chrome with turbo.