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Contempt? What? I think they value developers and people who use their software frequently. As a developer, I love the separation of save and export. They real

Contempt? What? I think they value developers and people who use their software frequently. As a developer, I love the separation of save and export. They really are separate functions, and the XCF actually saves the export location relative to the original XCF location. It makes working on large projects so much easier. If I wanted to just do a quick edit to something, Gimp isn't the ideal tool for that job anyways. If I wanted to make it so, selecting export instead of save is really fine, especially since it gives the option in the menu to overwrite whatever JPG you just opened.

Karunamon 14y ago
>I think they value developers and people who use their software frequently. I think people who use their software frequently would take offense to the software telling you to fuck off and go do it a different way. The intent is obvious, both to the user and the developer. Why make people's lives more difficult for such questionable benefit? MS Paint doesn't have this problem. Photoshop doesn't have this problem. The user knows what they want to do, and they could do it before the change. Why are you getting in their way?
nitrogen 14y ago
I think they value developers and people who use their software frequently. I use their software very frequently, and the biggest frustration with this is that it completely screws with my muscle memory for the Gimp and every other application. I continue using 2.6 because 2.8 is just too frustrating. When working with images so much that you no longer think about the keyboard and mouse, but you think "Save" and it just happens, a change like this is like rewiring your hand so that all the fingers' nerves are reversed, and you have to get permission from your navel before you can lift your pinky. If I wanted to just do a quick edit to something, Gimp isn't the ideal tool for that job anyways. Gimp has always been the ideal tool to just do a quick edit to something, because it's the tool I know. I've been using it for more than a decade. I don't need some new developers to come along and think they know better than me how I use their software. That's Apple's billion dollar job, and even they get it wrong often enough. If I wanted to make it so, selecting export instead of save is really fine, especially since it gives the option in the menu to overwrite whatever JPG you just opened. Clearly you're not working fast enough for your fingers to be ahead of your brain. I don't need options, I need my tools not to talk back to me.
- windsurfer 14y ago
  it completely screws with my muscle memory I think this is very relevant: http://xkcd.com/1172/ http://xkcd.com/1172/ Clearly you're not working fast enough for your fingers to be ahead of your brain. I don't need options, I need my tools not to talk back to me. If you have any constructive feedback - or better yet, _code_ - make a polite post on their forum or mailing list. No one here cares about your specific workflow.
  - nitrogen 14y ago
    No one here cares about your specific workflow. Actually, you're the only one here vehemently defending the Gimp's new behavior. The other comments seem to prefer Gimp 2.6's Save behavior. But this is getting unnecessarily petty and personal; it's obvious we disagree, and I'll just stick to 2.6 and stop recommending Gimp to people who would otherwise be happy pirating something more expensive. Edit: Contempt? What? Exactly.
  - Turing_Machine 14y ago
    I hate it when software changes the workflow. Don't take it upon yourself to speak for everyone.
- JasonFruit 14y ago
  That's something Emacs has really gotten right: it doesn't force me to relearn keybindings that are so deep in my fingers they'll come out my elbows someday.
kristopolous 14y ago
I've used gimp since 1997 exclusively and I hate every bit of 2.8s interface ... from the impossible to find dockable tabs that hide every which way, to the laborious change in workflows, to the new way they've decided to do ranges ... making it really simple to choose numbers like 15 bazillion versus 10 bazillion but making it impossibly difficult to easily go between 1 and 4. And they STILL only have 8 bits per plane (people were whining about this in the 90s ... when Bill Clinton was president), STILL can't remember sub-pixel rendering steps ... other than improved PSD importing, I don't see why. I'm sure they've put a lot of work into this; but not in the right areas. Their target audience should be highly technical people that need to do image work and want a tool like vim/emacs/zsh etc but for images; learning curves are ok as long as you can combine simple steps in composable tasks to do amazing things. I say the same things about all my good tools: "I've been using it for 10+ years, I totally suck at it still, and I would never use anything else". You can say that about paintbrushes, driving, violins, maybe even photoshop or excel; but not gimp. They were going down that road for a while in the 2.2 or so days, but then they did a 180.
bashinator 14y ago
This very much reminds me of the attitude amongst the GNOME core developers that basically killed the project, per De Icaza's blog post a while back.
- Turing_Machine 14y ago
  Yep. Also of the cavalier attitude toward breaking changes that the Firefox team developed. I switched to Chrome and so did many others.

Karunamon 14y ago

>I think they value developers and people who use their software frequently. I think people who use their software frequently would take offense to the software telling you to fuck off and go do it a different way. The intent is obvious, both to the user and the developer. Why make people's lives more difficult for such questionable benefit? MS Paint doesn't have this problem. Photoshop doesn't have this problem. The user knows what they want to do, and they could do it before the change. Why are you getting in their way?

nitrogen 14y ago

I think they value developers and people who use their software frequently. I use their software very frequently, and the biggest frustration with this is that it completely screws with my muscle memory for the Gimp and every other application. I continue using 2.6 because 2.8 is just too frustrating. When working with images so much that you no longer think about the keyboard and mouse, but you think "Save" and it just happens, a change like this is like rewiring your hand so that all the fingers' nerves are reversed, and you have to get permission from your navel before you can lift your pinky. If I wanted to just do a quick edit to something, Gimp isn't the ideal tool for that job anyways. Gimp has always been the ideal tool to just do a quick edit to something, because it's the tool I know. I've been using it for more than a decade. I don't need some new developers to come along and think they know better than me how I use their software. That's Apple's billion dollar job, and even they get it wrong often enough. If I wanted to make it so, selecting export instead of save is really fine, especially since it gives the option in the menu to overwrite whatever JPG you just opened. Clearly you're not working fast enough for your fingers to be ahead of your brain. I don't need options, I need my tools not to talk back to me.

windsurfer 14y ago
it completely screws with my muscle memory I think this is very relevant: http://xkcd.com/1172/ http://xkcd.com/1172/ Clearly you're not working fast enough for your fingers to be ahead of your brain. I don't need options, I need my tools not to talk back to me. If you have any constructive feedback - or better yet, _code_ - make a polite post on their forum or mailing list. No one here cares about your specific workflow.
- nitrogen 14y ago
  No one here cares about your specific workflow. Actually, you're the only one here vehemently defending the Gimp's new behavior. The other comments seem to prefer Gimp 2.6's Save behavior. But this is getting unnecessarily petty and personal; it's obvious we disagree, and I'll just stick to 2.6 and stop recommending Gimp to people who would otherwise be happy pirating something more expensive. Edit: Contempt? What? Exactly.
- Turing_Machine 14y ago
  I hate it when software changes the workflow. Don't take it upon yourself to speak for everyone.
JasonFruit 14y ago
That's something Emacs has really gotten right: it doesn't force me to relearn keybindings that are so deep in my fingers they'll come out my elbows someday.

kristopolous 14y ago

I've used gimp since 1997 exclusively and I hate every bit of 2.8s interface ... from the impossible to find dockable tabs that hide every which way, to the laborious change in workflows, to the new way they've decided to do ranges ... making it really simple to choose numbers like 15 bazillion versus 10 bazillion but making it impossibly difficult to easily go between 1 and 4. And they STILL only have 8 bits per plane (people were whining about this in the 90s ... when Bill Clinton was president), STILL can't remember sub-pixel rendering steps ... other than improved PSD importing, I don't see why. I'm sure they've put a lot of work into this; but not in the right areas. Their target audience should be highly technical people that need to do image work and want a tool like vim/emacs/zsh etc but for images; learning curves are ok as long as you can combine simple steps in composable tasks to do amazing things. I say the same things about all my good tools: "I've been using it for 10+ years, I totally suck at it still, and I would never use anything else". You can say that about paintbrushes, driving, violins, maybe even photoshop or excel; but not gimp. They were going down that road for a while in the 2.2 or so days, but then they did a 180.

bashinator 14y ago

This very much reminds me of the attitude amongst the GNOME core developers that basically killed the project, per De Icaza's blog post a while back.

Turing_Machine 14y ago
Yep. Also of the cavalier attitude toward breaking changes that the Firefox team developed. I switched to Chrome and so did many others.