5 ms·

Not only that, but it's a _new feature_.

zanny 14y ago
What I don't get is that you can open any image type and modify it in gimp on the fly. The reason they are separated is that xcf can maintain layers and any other image loses that information. But anyone who uses gimp for a few minutes will realize this, and then you don't need 3 dialogs. Hell, have a warning message in the save as box if you haven't saved a project in xcf.
- anoncow 14y ago
  It used to do that. I hope somebody reverts this.
  - nitrogen 14y ago
    The comments I've found seem to indicate that the Gimp developers have no intention of changing this back, and that anyone who wants it back to the Gimp 2.6 and earlier approach is not in their "target audience". In other words, they hold their most common users in the highest of contempt. Edit: http://registry.gimp.org/node/26348 http://registry.gimp.org/node/26348
    - anoncow 14y ago
      fork gimp! :-) They could still prompt users to save a xcf copy .
      - nitrogen 14y ago
        There have been multiple forks, but they all end up dying. The ideal solution would be an automated fork that applies the UI patch to the latest official sources, but obviously the Gimp developers aren't going to care if they break your patch.
    - windsurfer 14y ago
      Contempt? What? I think they value developers and people who use their software frequently. As a developer, I love the separation of save and export. They really are separate functions, and the XCF actually saves the export location relative to the original XCF location. It makes working on large projects so much easier. If I wanted to just do a quick edit to something, Gimp isn't the ideal tool for that job anyways. If I wanted to make it so, selecting export instead of save is really fine, especially since it gives the option in the menu to overwrite whatever JPG you just opened.
      - Karunamon 14y ago
        >I think they value developers and people who use their software frequently. I think people who use their software frequently would take offense to the software telling you to fuck off and go do it a different way. The intent is obvious, both to the user and the developer. Why make people's lives more difficult for such questionable benefit? MS Paint doesn't have this problem. Photoshop doesn't have this problem. The user knows what they want to do, and they could do it before the change. Why are you getting in their way?
      - nitrogen 14y ago
        I think they value developers and people who use their software frequently. I use their software very frequently, and the biggest frustration with this is that it completely screws with my muscle memory for the Gimp and every other application. I continue using 2.6 because 2.8 is just too frustrating. When working with images so much that you no longer think about the keyboard and mouse, but you think "Save" and it just happens, a change like this is like rewiring your hand so that all the fingers' nerves are reversed, and you have to get permission from your navel before you can lift your pinky. If I wanted to just do a quick edit to something, Gimp isn't the ideal tool for that job anyways. Gimp has always been the ideal tool to just do a quick edit to something, because it's the tool I know. I've been using it for more than a decade. I don't need some new developers to come along and think they know better than me how I use their software. That's Apple's billion dollar job, and even they get it wrong often enough. If I wanted to make it so, selecting export instead of save is really fine, especially since it gives the option in the menu to overwrite whatever JPG you just opened. Clearly you're not working fast enough for your fingers to be ahead of your brain. I don't need options, I need my tools not to talk back to me.
    - Turing_Machine 14y ago
      Wow, the hubris in that thread is unbelievable.
      - nitrogen 14y ago
        It's as if everyone in the Gnome/Gtk/Gimp world wants to be a demanding dictator like Steve Jobs, but doing that and getting it right requires an insane budget, and even after all their effort, I still don't like Apple's stuff.
  - windsurfer 14y ago
    Why? The new workflow is better for everything except for quick edits of files. And the GIMP isn't the right tool for that job. Use a smaller, simpler program for a quick edit. If you really want to destroy your layers and history (which GIMP saves into XCFs) there is a menu option for that. But you almost certainly don't want to do that.
    - nitrogen 14y ago
      Use a smaller, simpler program for a quick edit. So what smaller, simpler program (other than Gimp 2.6) has all of Gimp's features, but is suitable for a quick edit? Say I have a .png image stored in a version control system, with no need for layers or history, and I want to do a quick perspective clone to paint over something?
      - cbhl 14y ago
        Gwenview, Microsoft Paint, among others.
        nitrogen 14y ago
        So, neither Gwenview nor Microsoft Paint support the perspective clone operation. Krita does, but Krita crashes every time I try to use it.
    - katbyte 14y ago
      Simpler program? I usually just end up using Photoshop instead :) When you save a layered file in a unlayered format photoshop just forces the "Save Aa a Copy" option to be checked and then saves a flattened version while preserving the open one, thus if you then decide to quit without saving a layered version you get a "Are you sure you wish to quit without saving document x?" The way Photoshop handles it is far superior imho. With gimp iirc even if the file is not layered you still have to do export? And for many edits, i simply don't want to save layers or history. there's just no point if i'm cropping, converting, re-sizing, or quickly fixing something. If i do then i'll save it as a layered file and layered is by far in the minority. I know what i'm doing i don't need the app to 2nd guess me, and it seems the new workflow is better for people who don't understand the difference between layered and un-layered files.
- jberryman 14y ago
  I think the new behavior is great. First of all because it remembers both where I'm saving and where I've been exporting in my workflow, and second because frankly saving in GIMP's native format and creating a flat lossy JPEG that approximates the work you've been doing are really fucking different things, and I find it comforting that they choose to make that explicit. I can how if you open GIMP once a month to make a LOLCAT how this behavior could be annoying.
  - Turing_Machine 14y ago
    What it should do is save the file in both XCF and the format the user actually wants. There could be a checkbox to turn off this behavior. That way it would satisfy both the elitists and the people who just want to do their jobs.
    - cbhl 14y ago
      You could submit a patch. :)
      - sneak 14y ago
        You could stop being an apologist. Neither will happen, though.
      - Turing_Machine 14y ago
        I seriously doubt that they'd accept any patch that altered the One True Way that they've decided on.
  - larrik 14y ago
    Yeah, except that you can open a jpg, crop it, and then try to re-save it over itself, and then: Oh, no you can't. The work flow is really awkward then. You are exporting a jpg from a jpg? Oooookay....
    - anoncow 14y ago
      Since you edited the jpeg, you might want to save the layer and other nfo in an xcf

zanny 14y ago

What I don't get is that you can open any image type and modify it in gimp on the fly. The reason they are separated is that xcf can maintain layers and any other image loses that information. But anyone who uses gimp for a few minutes will realize this, and then you don't need 3 dialogs. Hell, have a warning message in the save as box if you haven't saved a project in xcf.

anoncow 14y ago
It used to do that. I hope somebody reverts this.
- nitrogen 14y ago
  The comments I've found seem to indicate that the Gimp developers have no intention of changing this back, and that anyone who wants it back to the Gimp 2.6 and earlier approach is not in their "target audience". In other words, they hold their most common users in the highest of contempt. Edit: http://registry.gimp.org/node/26348 http://registry.gimp.org/node/26348
  - anoncow 14y ago
    fork gimp! :-) They could still prompt users to save a xcf copy .
    - nitrogen 14y ago
      There have been multiple forks, but they all end up dying. The ideal solution would be an automated fork that applies the UI patch to the latest official sources, but obviously the Gimp developers aren't going to care if they break your patch.
  - windsurfer 14y ago
    Contempt? What? I think they value developers and people who use their software frequently. As a developer, I love the separation of save and export. They really are separate functions, and the XCF actually saves the export location relative to the original XCF location. It makes working on large projects so much easier. If I wanted to just do a quick edit to something, Gimp isn't the ideal tool for that job anyways. If I wanted to make it so, selecting export instead of save is really fine, especially since it gives the option in the menu to overwrite whatever JPG you just opened.
    - Karunamon 14y ago
      >I think they value developers and people who use their software frequently. I think people who use their software frequently would take offense to the software telling you to fuck off and go do it a different way. The intent is obvious, both to the user and the developer. Why make people's lives more difficult for such questionable benefit? MS Paint doesn't have this problem. Photoshop doesn't have this problem. The user knows what they want to do, and they could do it before the change. Why are you getting in their way?
    - nitrogen 14y ago
      I think they value developers and people who use their software frequently. I use their software very frequently, and the biggest frustration with this is that it completely screws with my muscle memory for the Gimp and every other application. I continue using 2.6 because 2.8 is just too frustrating. When working with images so much that you no longer think about the keyboard and mouse, but you think "Save" and it just happens, a change like this is like rewiring your hand so that all the fingers' nerves are reversed, and you have to get permission from your navel before you can lift your pinky. If I wanted to just do a quick edit to something, Gimp isn't the ideal tool for that job anyways. Gimp has always been the ideal tool to just do a quick edit to something, because it's the tool I know. I've been using it for more than a decade. I don't need some new developers to come along and think they know better than me how I use their software. That's Apple's billion dollar job, and even they get it wrong often enough. If I wanted to make it so, selecting export instead of save is really fine, especially since it gives the option in the menu to overwrite whatever JPG you just opened. Clearly you're not working fast enough for your fingers to be ahead of your brain. I don't need options, I need my tools not to talk back to me.
  - Turing_Machine 14y ago
    Wow, the hubris in that thread is unbelievable.
    - nitrogen 14y ago
      It's as if everyone in the Gnome/Gtk/Gimp world wants to be a demanding dictator like Steve Jobs, but doing that and getting it right requires an insane budget, and even after all their effort, I still don't like Apple's stuff.
- windsurfer 14y ago
  Why? The new workflow is better for everything except for quick edits of files. And the GIMP isn't the right tool for that job. Use a smaller, simpler program for a quick edit. If you really want to destroy your layers and history (which GIMP saves into XCFs) there is a menu option for that. But you almost certainly don't want to do that.
  - nitrogen 14y ago
    Use a smaller, simpler program for a quick edit. So what smaller, simpler program (other than Gimp 2.6) has all of Gimp's features, but is suitable for a quick edit? Say I have a .png image stored in a version control system, with no need for layers or history, and I want to do a quick perspective clone to paint over something?
    - cbhl 14y ago
      Gwenview, Microsoft Paint, among others.
      - nitrogen 14y ago
        So, neither Gwenview nor Microsoft Paint support the perspective clone operation. Krita does, but Krita crashes every time I try to use it.
  - katbyte 14y ago
    Simpler program? I usually just end up using Photoshop instead :) When you save a layered file in a unlayered format photoshop just forces the "Save Aa a Copy" option to be checked and then saves a flattened version while preserving the open one, thus if you then decide to quit without saving a layered version you get a "Are you sure you wish to quit without saving document x?" The way Photoshop handles it is far superior imho. With gimp iirc even if the file is not layered you still have to do export? And for many edits, i simply don't want to save layers or history. there's just no point if i'm cropping, converting, re-sizing, or quickly fixing something. If i do then i'll save it as a layered file and layered is by far in the minority. I know what i'm doing i don't need the app to 2nd guess me, and it seems the new workflow is better for people who don't understand the difference between layered and un-layered files.
jberryman 14y ago
I think the new behavior is great. First of all because it remembers both where I'm saving and where I've been exporting in my workflow, and second because frankly saving in GIMP's native format and creating a flat lossy JPEG that approximates the work you've been doing are really fucking different things, and I find it comforting that they choose to make that explicit. I can how if you open GIMP once a month to make a LOLCAT how this behavior could be annoying.
- Turing_Machine 14y ago
  What it should do is save the file in both XCF and the format the user actually wants. There could be a checkbox to turn off this behavior. That way it would satisfy both the elitists and the people who just want to do their jobs.
  - cbhl 14y ago
    You could submit a patch. :)
    - sneak 14y ago
      You could stop being an apologist. Neither will happen, though.
    - Turing_Machine 14y ago
      I seriously doubt that they'd accept any patch that altered the One True Way that they've decided on.
- larrik 14y ago
  Yeah, except that you can open a jpg, crop it, and then try to re-save it over itself, and then: Oh, no you can't. The work flow is really awkward then. You are exporting a jpg from a jpg? Oooookay....
  - anoncow 14y ago
    Since you edited the jpeg, you might want to save the layer and other nfo in an xcf