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> Most estimates put the number of remote workers between 300 and 500. Which estimates are those? Overall, this post reeks of victimizing. > So yes, remote w

by jmduke 14y ago

> Most estimates put the number of remote workers between 300 and 500. Which estimates are those? Overall, this post reeks of victimizing. > So yes, remote workers are keeping Yahoo from being the “absolute best place to work”. Stop attacking a strawman! Nobody's arguing that remote workers are the one stumbling block between Yahoo and mountains of glory. But there's clearly a culture that needs to be attacked, and if one of the elements of that culture is that remote workers ARENT LOGGING INTO THE VPN then maybe Yahoo shouldn't have remote workers for the time being. It's also cute that DHH chose not to disclose that he's releasing a book about remote work (which, you know, might be a slight conflict of interest.)

makomk 14y ago
Last time we discussed this, didn't someone point out that it's entirely possible to work for Yahoo from home using SSH without once needing to log into the VPN?
bhauer 14y ago
While I agree with your criticism that he's attacking a strawman, I don't think there is any conflict of interest if he poses an opinion that he is using as a basis for a book. Many people write blog entries in support of a thesis they are evolving into a book.
- omonra 14y ago
  I guess it's just somewhat poor wording to call it 'conflict of interest'. Maybe the post would benefit from a disclaimer - "I happen to be a big proponent of remote work and even wrote a book about how great it is. So I bring a set of pre-existing views to this issue" Point being is that when someone is a proponent of something (to the tune of publishing a book extolling it), you hardly expect them to offer an unbiased analysis. Omitting that fact is kinda wrong.
  - badgar 14y ago
    Why would DHH go out of his way to be honest now? There's no upside for him at this point after laying down years of bullshit.
rayiner 14y ago
People on HN are very quick to pull the conflict of interest card. People who write books about telecommuting unsurprisingly believe its a good thing and have a negative reaction the a major company cancelling it.
- waps 14y ago
  What amazes me beyond anything else is that there is anyone at all, aside from upper management, that even attempts to defend the killing of telecommuting. Anyone who isn't an exec at a large company does not have any real data on whether it's better or not. They may have anecdotes, they may even have a few anecdotes, but that's it. And, frankly, for execs there's an inherent conflict of interest. Just take Marissa Mayer : http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/28/how-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayer-is-building-a-nursery-by-her-office-and-dissing-working-moms/ http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/28/how-yahoo-ceo-marissa-... This woman is ... I am sorry to use this word, she's disgusting. I have zero respect for someone who asks people to come into the office every morning, and says this makes things better, see she does it herself ... building a nursery into the fucking office, and for all I know she takes a helicopter to avoid the traffic. This is about as honorable as an army company standing outside an indian encampment, armed to the teeth with automatic weapons, saying how they've "fairly negotiated a transfer of land". These people are the reason we live in bland, empty inner cities with zero space for anyone and tiny apartments except for the super-rich. Telecommuting could solve that problem, and we should be fighting for it. To be exact, we should be fighting people like Marissa Mayer and other execs to get it. Why the fuck don't we do that ?
Evbn 14y ago
By now, you don't know that DHH does PR for himself and company as part of his daily job, no amount of disclosure will help you.
CodeMage 14y ago
But there's clearly a culture that needs to be attacked, and if one of the elements of that culture is that remote workers ARENT LOGGING INTO THE VPN then maybe Yahoo shouldn't have remote workers for the time being. Wait, so instead of revoking telecommuting privileges on the case-to-case basis, it makes more sense to ban telecommuting? I mean, just to make it perfectly clear, you're advocating that it doesn't matter whether someone is abusing a privilege or not, everyone gets punished. I invite you to stop and think about what message that sends, both to the good people already employed at Yahoo and to anyone evaluating Yahoo as a potential employer.
- cpressey 14y ago
  It sends the message that this year's CEO moves fast and breaks stuff! :)
  - kmfrk 14y ago
    Some day, CEOs may succeed in convincing people that decisions have trade-offs and opportunity costs. Some day. Maybe.
gte910h 14y ago
>ARENT LOGGING INTO THE VPN Honestly, I have worked remotely at places where very few services required the VPN to function But if the VPN is actually necessary for work, then that makes sense.
dfxm12 14y ago
Stop attacking a strawman! Nobody's arguing that remote workers are the one stumbling block between Yahoo and mountains of glory. There's a bigger issue here than just the ability to work from home. It's about freedom, not taking any steps backwards and globalization. An employer should empower its employees to do the best work they can. Taking away certain freedoms will hinder this. Remote working is a pretty solvable problem. What's it say that a technology company refuses to take this on? That they've given up and retreated from it? Does this have bigger implications on the industry at large? What about other industries? Yahoo! has several offices. If you are working with someone in a different office, what does it matter to you if they are in their office or a coffee shop or their bedroom? What if they are in a different timezone? Is Yahoo going to increase their travel budget to get the benefits of collocating? Would stockholders like this?

by jmduke 14y ago

makomk 14y ago

Last time we discussed this, didn't someone point out that it's entirely possible to work for Yahoo from home using SSH without once needing to log into the VPN?

bhauer 14y ago

While I agree with your criticism that he's attacking a strawman, I don't think there is any conflict of interest if he poses an opinion that he is using as a basis for a book. Many people write blog entries in support of a thesis they are evolving into a book.

omonra 14y ago
I guess it's just somewhat poor wording to call it 'conflict of interest'. Maybe the post would benefit from a disclaimer - "I happen to be a big proponent of remote work and even wrote a book about how great it is. So I bring a set of pre-existing views to this issue" Point being is that when someone is a proponent of something (to the tune of publishing a book extolling it), you hardly expect them to offer an unbiased analysis. Omitting that fact is kinda wrong.
- badgar 14y ago
  Why would DHH go out of his way to be honest now? There's no upside for him at this point after laying down years of bullshit.

rayiner 14y ago

People on HN are very quick to pull the conflict of interest card. People who write books about telecommuting unsurprisingly believe its a good thing and have a negative reaction the a major company cancelling it.

waps 14y ago
What amazes me beyond anything else is that there is anyone at all, aside from upper management, that even attempts to defend the killing of telecommuting. Anyone who isn't an exec at a large company does not have any real data on whether it's better or not. They may have anecdotes, they may even have a few anecdotes, but that's it. And, frankly, for execs there's an inherent conflict of interest. Just take Marissa Mayer : http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/28/how-yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayer-is-building-a-nursery-by-her-office-and-dissing-working-moms/ http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/28/how-yahoo-ceo-marissa-... This woman is ... I am sorry to use this word, she's disgusting. I have zero respect for someone who asks people to come into the office every morning, and says this makes things better, see she does it herself ... building a nursery into the fucking office, and for all I know she takes a helicopter to avoid the traffic. This is about as honorable as an army company standing outside an indian encampment, armed to the teeth with automatic weapons, saying how they've "fairly negotiated a transfer of land". These people are the reason we live in bland, empty inner cities with zero space for anyone and tiny apartments except for the super-rich. Telecommuting could solve that problem, and we should be fighting for it. To be exact, we should be fighting people like Marissa Mayer and other execs to get it. Why the fuck don't we do that ?

Evbn 14y ago

By now, you don't know that DHH does PR for himself and company as part of his daily job, no amount of disclosure will help you.

CodeMage 14y ago

But there's clearly a culture that needs to be attacked, and if one of the elements of that culture is that remote workers ARENT LOGGING INTO THE VPN then maybe Yahoo shouldn't have remote workers for the time being. Wait, so instead of revoking telecommuting privileges on the case-to-case basis, it makes more sense to ban telecommuting? I mean, just to make it perfectly clear, you're advocating that it doesn't matter whether someone is abusing a privilege or not, everyone gets punished. I invite you to stop and think about what message that sends, both to the good people already employed at Yahoo and to anyone evaluating Yahoo as a potential employer.

cpressey 14y ago
It sends the message that this year's CEO moves fast and breaks stuff! :)
- kmfrk 14y ago
  Some day, CEOs may succeed in convincing people that decisions have trade-offs and opportunity costs. Some day. Maybe.

gte910h 14y ago

>ARENT LOGGING INTO THE VPN Honestly, I have worked remotely at places where very few services required the VPN to function But if the VPN is actually necessary for work, then that makes sense.

dfxm12 14y ago

Stop attacking a strawman! Nobody's arguing that remote workers are the one stumbling block between Yahoo and mountains of glory. There's a bigger issue here than just the ability to work from home. It's about freedom, not taking any steps backwards and globalization. An employer should empower its employees to do the best work they can. Taking away certain freedoms will hinder this. Remote working is a pretty solvable problem. What's it say that a technology company refuses to take this on? That they've given up and retreated from it? Does this have bigger implications on the industry at large? What about other industries? Yahoo! has several offices. If you are working with someone in a different office, what does it matter to you if they are in their office or a coffee shop or their bedroom? What if they are in a different timezone? Is Yahoo going to increase their travel budget to get the benefits of collocating? Would stockholders like this?