6 ms·

Logix: Adding macros to Python

11 points by charzom 19y ago

jey 19y ago
Is it just me, or does it seem like everyone and their mother is inventing a new programming language these days?
- mdakin 19y ago
  They are and it's a direct result of CS's immaturity. Python is close to something very, very good but not quite there. Logix in "Base Logix" mode seems to fix some of Python's problems while retaining its redeeming qualities. If only a real Lisp would come along that had the leadership, library, community and documentation of Python.
  - icey 19y ago
    The library bit is the real killer here. There are a fair amount of libraries out there, but they don't live in a terribly centralized location. I think asdf is the "central" repos, but it seems like most of the useful items there have been created by a small handful of users.
    - mdakin 19y ago
      Indeed I hope pg has a strategy to grow a Python-like library around Arc.
  - AF 19y ago
    > If only a real Lisp would come along that had the leadership, library, community and documentation of Python. Someone was asking for that just the other day. I was thinking myself that it would be pretty neat to write a Lisp dialect that compiled down to Python, and therefore you could get access to all the Python libraries, a decent VM, and also macros. I've had trouble figuring out where to start, though. Would be a fun project.
    - mdakin 19y ago
      I'm no expert (merely a user of these systems) but it seems to me that the Python runtime is a POS compared to what you find in some Common Lisps like SBCL. The really appealing approach to me would be to pull Python into the Lisp environment rather than the other way around. Python's lib is so nice, coherent and complete but Lisp is nicer to program and the tools seem much more mature.
      - omouse 19y ago
        I'd prefer a Scheme implementation (or two) getting better libraries than Common Lisp. Check out Bigloo Scheme...it compiles down to C, JVM and .NET bytecode. I've only had it compile down to C but it was really quick. I'll have to get the computer language shootout guys to add Bigloo to their benchmarks.
        mdakin 19y ago
        My first Lisp experience was SICP/Scheme and it always felt cleaner and nicer as a language compared to CL. I gravitated towards CL over time due to perceived runtime and library advantages. If any Lisp could pull it all together like Python has I'd jump on board though. And if it was a Scheme then all the better.
        michaelneale 19y ago
        I agree. CL carries a lot of weight behind it, that is all legacy that really isn't going anywhere. Scheme has always stayed deliberately less "practical" but I think that means it will last longer.
      - AF 19y ago
        You are right about the runtimes. SBCL is something else. And there have been attempts to pull Python into Lisp: http://common-lisp.net/project/python-on-lisp/ http://common-lisp.net/project/python-on-lisp/ The only thing is, I find CL a really baroque language. The issues have been touched upon by many, but CL just has many spots where due to being standardized 2 decades ago, it isn't really consistent. Python for the most part is extremely consistent and the VM runs on any major OS (SBCL still has issues on Windows). Not to mention the language seems to be evolving naturally (Python 3). That's the main reason I'd like to see a Lisp on Python.
AF 19y ago
The GPL licensing would be an issue for some. Edit: Unfortunately Logix seems to have been dead since 2005. http://common-lisp.net/project/python-on-lisp/ http://common-lisp.net/project/python-on-lisp/
- omouse 19y ago
  How come?
  - AF 19y ago
    Well, if you wanted to ship a desktop application or such, you'd have to open source your code. That doesn't work for all companies.
euccastro 19y ago
Since some of you are asking for the converse: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36178 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36178

11 points by charzom 19y ago

jey 19y ago

Is it just me, or does it seem like everyone and their mother is inventing a new programming language these days?

mdakin 19y ago
They are and it's a direct result of CS's immaturity. Python is close to something very, very good but not quite there. Logix in "Base Logix" mode seems to fix some of Python's problems while retaining its redeeming qualities. If only a real Lisp would come along that had the leadership, library, community and documentation of Python.
- icey 19y ago
  The library bit is the real killer here. There are a fair amount of libraries out there, but they don't live in a terribly centralized location. I think asdf is the "central" repos, but it seems like most of the useful items there have been created by a small handful of users.
  - mdakin 19y ago
    Indeed I hope pg has a strategy to grow a Python-like library around Arc.
- AF 19y ago
  > If only a real Lisp would come along that had the leadership, library, community and documentation of Python. Someone was asking for that just the other day. I was thinking myself that it would be pretty neat to write a Lisp dialect that compiled down to Python, and therefore you could get access to all the Python libraries, a decent VM, and also macros. I've had trouble figuring out where to start, though. Would be a fun project.
  - mdakin 19y ago
    I'm no expert (merely a user of these systems) but it seems to me that the Python runtime is a POS compared to what you find in some Common Lisps like SBCL. The really appealing approach to me would be to pull Python into the Lisp environment rather than the other way around. Python's lib is so nice, coherent and complete but Lisp is nicer to program and the tools seem much more mature.
    - omouse 19y ago
      I'd prefer a Scheme implementation (or two) getting better libraries than Common Lisp. Check out Bigloo Scheme...it compiles down to C, JVM and .NET bytecode. I've only had it compile down to C but it was really quick. I'll have to get the computer language shootout guys to add Bigloo to their benchmarks.
      - mdakin 19y ago
        My first Lisp experience was SICP/Scheme and it always felt cleaner and nicer as a language compared to CL. I gravitated towards CL over time due to perceived runtime and library advantages. If any Lisp could pull it all together like Python has I'd jump on board though. And if it was a Scheme then all the better.
        michaelneale 19y ago
        I agree. CL carries a lot of weight behind it, that is all legacy that really isn't going anywhere. Scheme has always stayed deliberately less "practical" but I think that means it will last longer.
    - AF 19y ago
      You are right about the runtimes. SBCL is something else. And there have been attempts to pull Python into Lisp: http://common-lisp.net/project/python-on-lisp/ http://common-lisp.net/project/python-on-lisp/ The only thing is, I find CL a really baroque language. The issues have been touched upon by many, but CL just has many spots where due to being standardized 2 decades ago, it isn't really consistent. Python for the most part is extremely consistent and the VM runs on any major OS (SBCL still has issues on Windows). Not to mention the language seems to be evolving naturally (Python 3). That's the main reason I'd like to see a Lisp on Python.

AF 19y ago

The GPL licensing would be an issue for some. Edit: Unfortunately Logix seems to have been dead since 2005. http://common-lisp.net/project/python-on-lisp/ http://common-lisp.net/project/python-on-lisp/

omouse 19y ago
How come?
- AF 19y ago
  Well, if you wanted to ship a desktop application or such, you'd have to open source your code. That doesn't work for all companies.

euccastro 19y ago

Since some of you are asking for the converse: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36178 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36178