4 ms·

Ah yes. The social safety net is causing society to be overrun by a plague of undesirables. If we would only let people die in the streets, our society would be

Ah yes. The social safety net is causing society to be overrun by a plague of undesirables. If we would only let people die in the streets, our society would be pure. Edit: I'm being sarcastic.

jiggy2011 14y ago
That's an exaggeration, sterilisation should be sufficient. Edit: I'm being sarcastic.
- vaadu 14y ago
  Not a bad idea. What if the government offered free tubal ligation and vasectomy. If you later want to have kids that cost is on you to reverse it.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    Here in the UK at least basically everyone has access to free contraception, you can usually walk into a health clinic and ask for a bag of condoms and they will give them to you. I think there may also be mechanisms for women to get the contraceptive pill gratis if they are on government support. The issue is though that this requires some degree of responsibility and planning, which is almost by definition missing in people who breed irresponsibly. So you have a lot of people who want a lot of children or are at least indifferent to having them, however they have no financial means to support that many children. I guess if you have not been successful career-wise then having a large family might give one a sense of accomplishment. The upshot of that is that it's not fair to let these kids starve so the government has to offer welfare to these families. For example it is much easier to get government subsidised housing if you have children. So you end up with a situation like we have in the UK where people sometimes have children because they will get a free house (and if you have more kids you get a bigger house) where otherwise they might be homeless or forced to live with parents etc. So quite the vicious cycle.
    - lotsofcows 14y ago
      Not a particularly vicious cycle given a society that a) only works if it grows b) only grows due to immigration
      - eru 14y ago
        Which society are you talking about?
        lotsofcows 14y ago
        Parent said, "Here in the UK". Although I think it applies to most of the first world. An interesting definition of "first world" could be "the point where native deaths outweigh native births".
        eru 14y ago
        OK. So what makes you think that a society only works if it grows?
        lotsofcows 14y ago
        Hmmm, you might want to check out your pension plan. Also, have a look at your country's next published budget.
    - thisone 14y ago
      at least in 2007 the pill was free as well. Contraceptive implant, coil, IUD, all still free last time I checked. It's not only condoms. And if your local surgery can't provide what you want due to a skills shortage you can go to a sexual health clinic with no problem. When I was chatting with the GUM clinic staff last time I had my implant changed, she was talking about how common it was for teens to have it, since it's such an easy fire and forget contraceptive. Preventing STIs however, that's another issue.
  - Adirael 14y ago
    The vasectomy (and I guess the tube ligation as well, I haven't looked into it) is NOT reversible. You can try and there's some success rate, the sooner you do it the better chances, but it's not a reversible method. Don't use it as contraception, it's easier to educate and use different methods.
    - mhurron 14y ago
      >Don't use it as contraception, Once you have decided that you do not under any circumstances want children, the only better way to prevent it is abstinence. Some people do not ever want kids.
    - thisone 14y ago
      Why else would you have a vasectomy or tubal ligation if not for contraceptive reasons?

Ah yes. The social safety net is causing society to be overrun by a plague of undesirables. If we would only let people die in the streets, our society would be pure. Edit: I'm being sarcastic.

jiggy2011 14y ago

That's an exaggeration, sterilisation should be sufficient. Edit: I'm being sarcastic.

vaadu 14y ago
Not a bad idea. What if the government offered free tubal ligation and vasectomy. If you later want to have kids that cost is on you to reverse it.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  Here in the UK at least basically everyone has access to free contraception, you can usually walk into a health clinic and ask for a bag of condoms and they will give them to you. I think there may also be mechanisms for women to get the contraceptive pill gratis if they are on government support. The issue is though that this requires some degree of responsibility and planning, which is almost by definition missing in people who breed irresponsibly. So you have a lot of people who want a lot of children or are at least indifferent to having them, however they have no financial means to support that many children. I guess if you have not been successful career-wise then having a large family might give one a sense of accomplishment. The upshot of that is that it's not fair to let these kids starve so the government has to offer welfare to these families. For example it is much easier to get government subsidised housing if you have children. So you end up with a situation like we have in the UK where people sometimes have children because they will get a free house (and if you have more kids you get a bigger house) where otherwise they might be homeless or forced to live with parents etc. So quite the vicious cycle.
  - lotsofcows 14y ago
    Not a particularly vicious cycle given a society that a) only works if it grows b) only grows due to immigration
    - eru 14y ago
      Which society are you talking about?
      - lotsofcows 14y ago
        Parent said, "Here in the UK". Although I think it applies to most of the first world. An interesting definition of "first world" could be "the point where native deaths outweigh native births".
        eru 14y ago
        OK. So what makes you think that a society only works if it grows?
        lotsofcows 14y ago
        Hmmm, you might want to check out your pension plan. Also, have a look at your country's next published budget.
  - thisone 14y ago
    at least in 2007 the pill was free as well. Contraceptive implant, coil, IUD, all still free last time I checked. It's not only condoms. And if your local surgery can't provide what you want due to a skills shortage you can go to a sexual health clinic with no problem. When I was chatting with the GUM clinic staff last time I had my implant changed, she was talking about how common it was for teens to have it, since it's such an easy fire and forget contraceptive. Preventing STIs however, that's another issue.
- Adirael 14y ago
  The vasectomy (and I guess the tube ligation as well, I haven't looked into it) is NOT reversible. You can try and there's some success rate, the sooner you do it the better chances, but it's not a reversible method. Don't use it as contraception, it's easier to educate and use different methods.
  - mhurron 14y ago
    >Don't use it as contraception, Once you have decided that you do not under any circumstances want children, the only better way to prevent it is abstinence. Some people do not ever want kids.
  - thisone 14y ago
    Why else would you have a vasectomy or tubal ligation if not for contraceptive reasons?