6 ms·

Leaving your job to go create something awesome

66 points by vlokshin 14y ago

paulgb 14y ago
> Deals you expect to close will fall through. Don’t let your business ride on any one client or project — no one owes you anything until a contract is signed. That being said, deals you don’t expect to happen will happen. This is gold.
hakaaaaak 14y ago
This was a nice short read. However, I'd like to see something between this and The Four Steps to the Epiphany. Something that held out its hand, so that I could grab it that would lead me step by step to: 1. Find out what in the hell I'm good at, love doing, and should be doing. Every book and website I read about this leads me to believe that I'm "creative". We'll that's great, but I don't know how to turn that into a business. I've read plenty of "you can do it" but there isn't a lot of "this is what you specifically should be doing because I know you- seriously". 2. Help me get my ass off the couch with a plan. A plan that leads me the way a morbidly obese person could be inspired to start doing small exercises like barely sitting up, but eventually actually get in shape. Not just a book on getting a business plan together. If I wanted one of those, I could spit 20 feet and find one. I mean a plan step-by-step of what I need to do to go from making X at company A to making X on my own, with a limited amount of time making x * 0.75 or x * 0.50. 3. Tell me whether I really need an LLC or just business insurance. Tell me the laws for doing business in my state, in my country, with other states, with other countries. Do I need a VAT id? What is the difference between a quote and contract of work that I'd need to do business with the U.S. government vs. a small company in Germany vs. a small company in Australia? All of these details, but in a really friendly language. I know there are groups that support entrepreneurs and startups, but most of them don't support them to go international from day one, and they are more geared to evaluate and provide funding so VC's can invest and reap dividends. I have been approached by people around the world that want to pay me for my product or services, but can't because they can't tell me what I'm supposed to be doing. That's the kind of shit I want to know. I love reading these hopeful posts. But even the most informative don't touch the surface, and the ones that go too far into depth miss the practical stuff. I know it isn't easy. It sounds like I want everything wrapped in a golden ribbon. Well, I'm getting paid pretty well full-time and though I've always wanted to take the jump, spending years reading about others that have done what I want to do (kind of- if I knew exactly what it was), has gotten me nowhere. Magical information and assistance like this just doesn't seem to exist.
- vlokshin 14y ago
  "Magical information and assistance like this just doesn't seem to exist." Agreed, but that's why the majority of the world ends up living life as a cog. None of this shit is easy, and no one is going to handhold you through the process. If that's your expectation, you're simply not cut out for this. But... you did mention a Steve Blank book, which makes me think all hope is not lost :) I'd recommend: 1. Read "The startup owners manual" by Steve Blank, or at least skim the parts that seem interesting to you 2. Learn to follow the pomodoro technique religiously. This changed my "get shit done" ability dramatically -- sounds like that may be a hump you're having some trouble getting over. In detail to 2, the thing I love most about the pomodoro technique is that it forces you to break down a task to <25 mins. Let's take one of your points: "3. Tell me whether I really need an LLC or just business insurance. Tell me the laws for doing business in my state, in my country, with other states, with other countries. Do I need a VAT id? What is the difference between a quote and contract of work that I'd need to do business with the U.S. government vs. a small company in Germany vs. a small company in Australia? All of these details, but in a really friendly language." You're never going to figure that out on your own if that's the approach. That's a BIG, complicated question with a lot of factors to consider. Either you have the money to pay someone to figure it out for you, or break down something you can actually go do your research about. Assume, test, analyze, grind, repeat.
  - Volpe 14y ago
    I like your response and tone. And the article. But: > Agreed, but that's why the majority of the world ends up living life as a cog. This to me, amounts to: You are a failure (cog) if you don't do your own thing and "follow your dreams". I don't agree with anything in that statement. I would ask readers to really think about why "following dreams" is important. Is it related to happiness? What if skills and dreams are completely out of reach from each other? Is it really just going to set someone up for failure/depression etc. As I say, I like the sentiment, but feel there is little analysis to the thought.
    - vlokshin 14y ago
      You're right, and it should be just "follow your dreams". Doing your own thing has a lot less to do with it, and just happens to be a part of my dream. Also, I'm not exactly "doing my own thing" -- I'm simply getting to work with a team that's a lot better at making our collective "dreams" a reality as compared to our respective previous situations. Sorry for the 1-sidedness -- and you're right about there not being much analysis to the thought. This was a more personal, than logical, post so please take it as only such.
dredmorbius 14y ago
> If your team’s hourly rate is $150/hr, that’s what they’re worth. Don’t skimp on them or on yourself. That $100 savings isn’t worth it if two team members each waste 30 minutes (you’ve effectively lost 50$). That's a confounding of a couple of slightly misleading concepts. If your billing rate is $150/hr, then that's what you should bill for. What you do in your non-billable hours is what makes your billable rates what they are. It doesn't mean that you're earing your billable rate during non-billable hours, or that you should evaluate them on that basis. Rather, you should evaluate non-billable time on the basis of: does doing this increase my billable hours, my billable rate, or otherwise improve business (reduced cost of sales, reduced churn)? By way of a sports analogy, a team that can fill a 20,000 seat stadium at $50/seat for a 3 hour game, a net rate of $33,3333/hour, shouldn't evaluate its training and transport time on that basis. Rather, training and transport are what gets you to that $33 grand an hour. Similarly, a $50 expense should be weighed on its marginal effect on productivity, in light of alternatives. If a $25 expense will return an $80 productivity gain, and a $50 expense nets $100, you're better off spending $25 (net gain of $55) than $50 (net gain of $50). Of course, in reality, costs and benefits are often much harder to measure, you're working off of partial and uncertain information. But at least get the underlying logic right.
- vlokshin 14y ago
  You're breaking apart a very minor detail. (most) People on hackernews can do this math, as can I. Ironically enough, I had a much longer write-up for that section, and deleted an entire paragraph. An audience / readers are fickle, if you want attention -- you need to take out what doesn't really matter. But technically: you're right, you're right. Sorry to have offended you...
  - dredmorbius 14y ago
    It's not so much that these are minor details, but I see fallacious / erroneous logic used to justify various actions. Most often, it's actively discouraging collaboration / close working by employees on the basis that they're wasting one another's time and/or that two people working on the same problem is not cost effective, regardless of the fact that they are electing to work in this way, and that productivity is higher (combined) than were they working independently. Yes, you can make the argument that excessive long meetings are cost sinks (but they're likely much more effective than passing information to people one at a time). The key is to keep meetings to the minimum required, to keep them on track and moving toward a goal, and to head off those who'll disrupt, hijack, or otherwise kill efficiency, as well as ensure that makers get their long-duration, uninterrupted time blocks when best suited to get their work done (probably the biggest negative of contemporary office life and design). As for the billing rate observation: that's not a math problem, strictly, it's a recognition of billable vs. nonbillable productive activities. No offense taken.
shurcooL 14y ago
Already doing that, thanks. I agree.
benched 14y ago
I did this. It was scary because I was leaving a very well-paying job, but I was so excited for all the possibilities. In a year, I produced tons of awesome code, that did what it was written to do. But the product itself floundered, and never took a shape that I could believe in. I even tried hiring others to give it a fresh take, but that didn't work. In the meantime, it sped the end of a relationship. She seemed as obsessed with her own goals of starting a family as I was with my goals of starting a company. There was little middle ground. My bank account ran dry sooner than expected. I didn't find quite enough freelance work to stay afloat. Finally, faced with a rapidly shrinking runway, the prospect of 1.5 years intense coding work amounting to nothing but uninspiring demos, and nobody else but me invested, I imploded. Meltdown. I was grasping at every straw, but it was all just that. Straw. The SO was gone. The money was gone. I'd taken the initiative to start interviewing, but nothing was connecting up. This led to one of the darkest depressions of my life. Things are only just starting to look up now, as I've finally had a job offer with a company that I'm truly excited to work at. And the work that I did while independent played a big part in landing the job. I can't say whether it was 'worth it' - only that this is how it happened, and I'm very grateful that it did. I feel it did not have to be so miserably hard. So, I suggest having even more cushion than you think you need. Keeping your relationships with colleagues warm. Pursuing other plans, contracts, or job prospects while you work on your idea. If you do not already have very supportive family and friends around who believe in what you're doing, ask yourself if you have the personality to really believe in yourself that much. Anything so it does not have to be like "I must succeed at this or life is over."
- Gobitron 14y ago
  How long did it take you to recover?
- vlokshin 14y ago
  Sorry to hear, and hopefully this doesn't deter you from trying again (if that's what you want to do). Sounds like it'll be a lot easier next time around from what you learned, and landing the job you have now was made possible by the same learnings.
known 14y ago
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." --George Bernard Shaw
MicahWedemeyer 14y ago
I think it's a mistake to classify people who don't do this as "cogs." As a self-employed entrepreneur myself, I actually envy happy "cogs." I think they tend to lead much more balanced lives. They have work and a life. Most entrepreneurs I know can't separate their work from their life. If the statement, "I love my job" makes sense to you, then you should never quit your job to start your own company. It's usually a terrible financial decision and it involves a ton of instability. The main reason to do it is because you look at your life as an employee and just can't see yourself ever being happy.
- vlokshin 14y ago
  You're completely right. From the comments/feedback, sounds like I generalized here a bit. I 100% believe in doing what you're passionate about / what you love. If that means contributing to a team of 1000, or a team of 1, so be it -- the "cog" is simply someone who isn't doing what they want to be doing, or isn't taking the steps to get there.
danhodgins 14y ago
It's all out there. The books, knowledge, people and process for entrepreneurship are there for the taking. Your job is to collect and synthesize knowledge from books, mentors, fans, customers and peers to find your unique formula for success. I can't tell you what your formula for success is - no one can. We don't know your strengths, weakenesses or whether you have come from an immediate or extended family with one or more entrepreneurs - a major factor in predicting business success. I will say one thing though. I don't know many entrepreneurs, whether business or technology oriented, who are abysmal marketers. The best technology-focused entrepreneurs are also, at the very least, average to above-average marketers. They got that way due to instinct, study, mentors, or all 3. Study and learn to love marketing and design. If you can combine those two things with strong technical acumen you'll be able to literally bring your dreams to life. The more of a curious renaissance man and generalist you can be the better, because you'll be able to dive in and do whatever it takes at any given time to drive your business, brand and product(s) forward - whether it's coding, design, marketing, networking, producing and syndicating content or optimizing conversions on a landing page. Sure, create something awesome. But don't pretend that your awesome thing is 100% of the equation. Your awesome product idea is 10% of success. The other 90% is selling and hustle.

66 points by vlokshin 14y ago

> Deals you expect to close will fall through. Don’t let your business ride on any one client or project — no one owes you anything until a contract is signed. That being said, deals you don’t expect to happen will happen. This is gold.

hakaaaaak 14y ago

This was a nice short read. However, I'd like to see something between this and The Four Steps to the Epiphany. Something that held out its hand, so that I could grab it that would lead me step by step to: 1. Find out what in the hell I'm good at, love doing, and should be doing. Every book and website I read about this leads me to believe that I'm "creative". We'll that's great, but I don't know how to turn that into a business. I've read plenty of "you can do it" but there isn't a lot of "this is what you specifically should be doing because I know you- seriously". 2. Help me get my ass off the couch with a plan. A plan that leads me the way a morbidly obese person could be inspired to start doing small exercises like barely sitting up, but eventually actually get in shape. Not just a book on getting a business plan together. If I wanted one of those, I could spit 20 feet and find one. I mean a plan step-by-step of what I need to do to go from making X at company A to making X on my own, with a limited amount of time making x * 0.75 or x * 0.50. 3. Tell me whether I really need an LLC or just business insurance. Tell me the laws for doing business in my state, in my country, with other states, with other countries. Do I need a VAT id? What is the difference between a quote and contract of work that I'd need to do business with the U.S. government vs. a small company in Germany vs. a small company in Australia? All of these details, but in a really friendly language. I know there are groups that support entrepreneurs and startups, but most of them don't support them to go international from day one, and they are more geared to evaluate and provide funding so VC's can invest and reap dividends. I have been approached by people around the world that want to pay me for my product or services, but can't because they can't tell me what I'm supposed to be doing. That's the kind of shit I want to know. I love reading these hopeful posts. But even the most informative don't touch the surface, and the ones that go too far into depth miss the practical stuff. I know it isn't easy. It sounds like I want everything wrapped in a golden ribbon. Well, I'm getting paid pretty well full-time and though I've always wanted to take the jump, spending years reading about others that have done what I want to do (kind of- if I knew exactly what it was), has gotten me nowhere. Magical information and assistance like this just doesn't seem to exist.

vlokshin 14y ago
"Magical information and assistance like this just doesn't seem to exist." Agreed, but that's why the majority of the world ends up living life as a cog. None of this shit is easy, and no one is going to handhold you through the process. If that's your expectation, you're simply not cut out for this. But... you did mention a Steve Blank book, which makes me think all hope is not lost :) I'd recommend: 1. Read "The startup owners manual" by Steve Blank, or at least skim the parts that seem interesting to you 2. Learn to follow the pomodoro technique religiously. This changed my "get shit done" ability dramatically -- sounds like that may be a hump you're having some trouble getting over. In detail to 2, the thing I love most about the pomodoro technique is that it forces you to break down a task to <25 mins. Let's take one of your points: "3. Tell me whether I really need an LLC or just business insurance. Tell me the laws for doing business in my state, in my country, with other states, with other countries. Do I need a VAT id? What is the difference between a quote and contract of work that I'd need to do business with the U.S. government vs. a small company in Germany vs. a small company in Australia? All of these details, but in a really friendly language." You're never going to figure that out on your own if that's the approach. That's a BIG, complicated question with a lot of factors to consider. Either you have the money to pay someone to figure it out for you, or break down something you can actually go do your research about. Assume, test, analyze, grind, repeat.
- Volpe 14y ago
  I like your response and tone. And the article. But: > Agreed, but that's why the majority of the world ends up living life as a cog. This to me, amounts to: You are a failure (cog) if you don't do your own thing and "follow your dreams". I don't agree with anything in that statement. I would ask readers to really think about why "following dreams" is important. Is it related to happiness? What if skills and dreams are completely out of reach from each other? Is it really just going to set someone up for failure/depression etc. As I say, I like the sentiment, but feel there is little analysis to the thought.
  - vlokshin 14y ago
    You're right, and it should be just "follow your dreams". Doing your own thing has a lot less to do with it, and just happens to be a part of my dream. Also, I'm not exactly "doing my own thing" -- I'm simply getting to work with a team that's a lot better at making our collective "dreams" a reality as compared to our respective previous situations. Sorry for the 1-sidedness -- and you're right about there not being much analysis to the thought. This was a more personal, than logical, post so please take it as only such.

dredmorbius 14y ago

> If your team’s hourly rate is $150/hr, that’s what they’re worth. Don’t skimp on them or on yourself. That $100 savings isn’t worth it if two team members each waste 30 minutes (you’ve effectively lost 50$). That's a confounding of a couple of slightly misleading concepts. If your billing rate is $150/hr, then that's what you should bill for. What you do in your non-billable hours is what makes your billable rates what they are. It doesn't mean that you're earing your billable rate during non-billable hours, or that you should evaluate them on that basis. Rather, you should evaluate non-billable time on the basis of: does doing this increase my billable hours, my billable rate, or otherwise improve business (reduced cost of sales, reduced churn)? By way of a sports analogy, a team that can fill a 20,000 seat stadium at $50/seat for a 3 hour game, a net rate of $33,3333/hour, shouldn't evaluate its training and transport time on that basis. Rather, training and transport are what gets you to that $33 grand an hour. Similarly, a $50 expense should be weighed on its marginal effect on productivity, in light of alternatives. If a $25 expense will return an $80 productivity gain, and a $50 expense nets $100, you're better off spending $25 (net gain of $55) than $50 (net gain of $50). Of course, in reality, costs and benefits are often much harder to measure, you're working off of partial and uncertain information. But at least get the underlying logic right.

vlokshin 14y ago
You're breaking apart a very minor detail. (most) People on hackernews can do this math, as can I. Ironically enough, I had a much longer write-up for that section, and deleted an entire paragraph. An audience / readers are fickle, if you want attention -- you need to take out what doesn't really matter. But technically: you're right, you're right. Sorry to have offended you...
- dredmorbius 14y ago
  It's not so much that these are minor details, but I see fallacious / erroneous logic used to justify various actions. Most often, it's actively discouraging collaboration / close working by employees on the basis that they're wasting one another's time and/or that two people working on the same problem is not cost effective, regardless of the fact that they are electing to work in this way, and that productivity is higher (combined) than were they working independently. Yes, you can make the argument that excessive long meetings are cost sinks (but they're likely much more effective than passing information to people one at a time). The key is to keep meetings to the minimum required, to keep them on track and moving toward a goal, and to head off those who'll disrupt, hijack, or otherwise kill efficiency, as well as ensure that makers get their long-duration, uninterrupted time blocks when best suited to get their work done (probably the biggest negative of contemporary office life and design). As for the billing rate observation: that's not a math problem, strictly, it's a recognition of billable vs. nonbillable productive activities. No offense taken.

shurcooL 14y ago

Already doing that, thanks. I agree.

benched 14y ago

I did this. It was scary because I was leaving a very well-paying job, but I was so excited for all the possibilities. In a year, I produced tons of awesome code, that did what it was written to do. But the product itself floundered, and never took a shape that I could believe in. I even tried hiring others to give it a fresh take, but that didn't work. In the meantime, it sped the end of a relationship. She seemed as obsessed with her own goals of starting a family as I was with my goals of starting a company. There was little middle ground. My bank account ran dry sooner than expected. I didn't find quite enough freelance work to stay afloat. Finally, faced with a rapidly shrinking runway, the prospect of 1.5 years intense coding work amounting to nothing but uninspiring demos, and nobody else but me invested, I imploded. Meltdown. I was grasping at every straw, but it was all just that. Straw. The SO was gone. The money was gone. I'd taken the initiative to start interviewing, but nothing was connecting up. This led to one of the darkest depressions of my life. Things are only just starting to look up now, as I've finally had a job offer with a company that I'm truly excited to work at. And the work that I did while independent played a big part in landing the job. I can't say whether it was 'worth it' - only that this is how it happened, and I'm very grateful that it did. I feel it did not have to be so miserably hard. So, I suggest having even more cushion than you think you need. Keeping your relationships with colleagues warm. Pursuing other plans, contracts, or job prospects while you work on your idea. If you do not already have very supportive family and friends around who believe in what you're doing, ask yourself if you have the personality to really believe in yourself that much. Anything so it does not have to be like "I must succeed at this or life is over."

Gobitron 14y ago
How long did it take you to recover?
vlokshin 14y ago
Sorry to hear, and hopefully this doesn't deter you from trying again (if that's what you want to do). Sounds like it'll be a lot easier next time around from what you learned, and landing the job you have now was made possible by the same learnings.

known 14y ago

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." --George Bernard Shaw

MicahWedemeyer 14y ago

I think it's a mistake to classify people who don't do this as "cogs." As a self-employed entrepreneur myself, I actually envy happy "cogs." I think they tend to lead much more balanced lives. They have work and a life. Most entrepreneurs I know can't separate their work from their life. If the statement, "I love my job" makes sense to you, then you should never quit your job to start your own company. It's usually a terrible financial decision and it involves a ton of instability. The main reason to do it is because you look at your life as an employee and just can't see yourself ever being happy.

vlokshin 14y ago
You're completely right. From the comments/feedback, sounds like I generalized here a bit. I 100% believe in doing what you're passionate about / what you love. If that means contributing to a team of 1000, or a team of 1, so be it -- the "cog" is simply someone who isn't doing what they want to be doing, or isn't taking the steps to get there.

danhodgins 14y ago

It's all out there. The books, knowledge, people and process for entrepreneurship are there for the taking. Your job is to collect and synthesize knowledge from books, mentors, fans, customers and peers to find your unique formula for success. I can't tell you what your formula for success is - no one can. We don't know your strengths, weakenesses or whether you have come from an immediate or extended family with one or more entrepreneurs - a major factor in predicting business success. I will say one thing though. I don't know many entrepreneurs, whether business or technology oriented, who are abysmal marketers. The best technology-focused entrepreneurs are also, at the very least, average to above-average marketers. They got that way due to instinct, study, mentors, or all 3. Study and learn to love marketing and design. If you can combine those two things with strong technical acumen you'll be able to literally bring your dreams to life. The more of a curious renaissance man and generalist you can be the better, because you'll be able to dive in and do whatever it takes at any given time to drive your business, brand and product(s) forward - whether it's coding, design, marketing, networking, producing and syndicating content or optimizing conversions on a landing page. Sure, create something awesome. But don't pretend that your awesome thing is 100% of the equation. Your awesome product idea is 10% of success. The other 90% is selling and hustle.