6 ms·

Garry's Posthaven

41 points by dmor 14y ago

manaskarekar 14y ago
Question: How easy will it be to move the data out of the service at any given point in the future?
- aaronpk 14y ago
  Never as easy as copying files off of a web host.
edouard1234567 14y ago
The pricing reads like it will cost $5/month forever. I suggest at least adding inflation.
- manaskarekar 14y ago
  From the pledge (https://posthaven.com/ourpledge https://posthaven.com/ourpledge) >Will it be $5 a month forever? >As long as we can! We'll do our best to keep it as reasonable as possible. If costs go up, we'll have to raise prices. If they go down, we'll lower them. >We believe fair's fair -- and we'll always be fair.
  - edouard1234567 14y ago
    I suggest they remove the "forever" next to the price to make it clear the service will last forever, not the price. $5.00 in 2006 had about the same buying power as $0.43 in 1930, so $5 in 1930 is equivalent to $58 today.
    - kylec 14y ago
      The cost of bandwidth and storage is dropping at a faster rate than inflation. Besides, I'd say 90%+ of the blogs on a service like this would be mostly text and low traffic, and $5/month can cover that today several times over. That said, I'm not sure I'd trust another blogging service by the people that created Posterous. They already had a chance to demonstrate that they would keep the service running for the long haul and they didn't. I'd suggest people take their $5/month and spend it on Wordpress.com.
bslatkin 14y ago
I have some suggestions for Garry: http://www.onebigfluke.com/2013/02/blog-platforms-will-not-last-forever.html http://www.onebigfluke.com/2013/02/blog-platforms-will-not-l... "To actually commit to the claim of being 'the most durable blog platform ever created' and 'made to last forever', a blog hosting service should either: A) Require new users to bring their existing domain. OR B) Have users register for a new domain during sign-up. "
- callmeed 14y ago
  OR they could agree to 301 your URLs even after you leave (maybe for a small, one-time fee).
  - bslatkin 14y ago
    301s assumes their host is up. Services disappear within 24 hours: "The shutdown will be quite abrupt: Memolane accounts and content are set to be deleted tomorrow" http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/21/memolane-the-internet-time-machine-app-for-exploring-past-social-network-content-is-shutting-down/ http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/21/memolane-the-internet-time-...
    - sgrove 14y ago
      Seems like 1.) they let their users know about a month ahead of time and 2.) they were only a secondary aggregator of existing content that wouldn't be lost by them going away. Your point still stands, that's just a poor example.
  - garry 14y ago
    This is something Brett and I have discussed already. It's a good idea.
- garry 14y ago
  If you've ever accidentally let a domain lapse, it's pretty clear using your own domain is not necessarily more durable. Unless of course we figure out some way to auto-renew the domain, which is a possibility.
damm 14y ago
I'm sorry but their pledge does not say anything about what if they shut down? If they are trying to improve on Posterous they need to be up front with the fact that Posterous is closing and people don't want to move again in an year year when Posthaven shuts down. Businesses close, people die. If you are going to make a promise, make it worth it.
ziadbc 14y ago
It would be great if they can be successful at making a company where you can be confident that your data will not die; but flexible enough for the inevitable sampling of future 'bloggish' platforms that come out.
lkrubner 14y ago
App.net has evolved into a very good micro-blogging service, so why not use App.net instead? You can upload photos and post long essays on App.net. And App.net costs $3 a month, instead of $5 a month. But I would not choose App.net simply because it is a little cheaper than Posthaven. I would choose App.net because the guy who founded it, Dalton, seems to have some kind of long term vision. There is a heavy focus on the API as the future to a platform that goes beyond what Twitter is, and goes beyond what Posterous was. That longer term vision is enticing, because it also offers slightly more concrete possibility of longevity than the mere verbal promise offered by Posthaven. After all, the only way any of these services can offer longevity is by surviving, and the only way they can survive is to have an idea that really is adapted to what the world needs next.
- mikeleeorg 14y ago
  BTW, I'm looking at App.net right now and it says it's $5/month. Price increase?
  - trafficlight 14y ago
    Or $36/year which works out to $3/month.
- garry 14y ago
  I love Dalton and App.net and am a supporter myself. We certainly have a road ahead of us to show how we will make it to forever. For now, we're building software.
arikrak 14y ago
If you have your own domain, you can always export your blog to another service, so what's the big deal? Also, if you want a reliable hosted service, you can always use the free Wordpress.com or Blogger instead of some new startup's offering. I don't think Wordpress or Blogger will be closing down anytime soon.
- garry 14y ago
  Note that we're not a startup. Our goals are to serve users and make software. If it made no money at all, I would still work on it.
jmathai 14y ago
I hate sounding like a broken record here but if you don't meet the following criteria then stop saying you're going to preserve users' data forever. * Have a full featured API right out of the gates * Outline how users get their data out of your system * Open source the code to ensure the ability for it to live on Pledges are cheap.
- pg 14y ago
  Not as cheap as dismissive comments on forums.
  - jmathai 14y ago
    How's this dismissive? I've blogged and posted about this topic for a while [1]. I've also spent the last 2 years full time on a project that relates to data ownership and portability [2][3]. For those of us who write software specifically designed to solve this problem it's unfortunate when others make the same claims based simply on promises. [1] http://blog.theopenphotoproject.org/post/10537443380/namespacing-the-web-for-your-photos http://blog.theopenphotoproject.org/post/10537443380/namespa... [2] https://github.com/photo https://github.com/photo [3] http://www.shuttleworthfoundation.org/fellows/jaisen-mathai/ http://www.shuttleworthfoundation.org/fellows/jaisen-mathai/
    - garry 14y ago
      Your suggestions are absolutely valid, and I appreciate them Jaisen. Your efforts with the Open Photo Project are noble, and I respect them a ton. Give us some time -- Posthaven was a vague idea just a few months ago. We are under the gun to ship software at the moment.
      - jmathai 14y ago
        Appreciate the response. I do hope you get around to adding some of these features. The Internet needs services like that desperately. But until those features are released I have to remain a cynic :). Ping me on Twitter (@jmathai) if you wanted to grab coffee. I never pass an opportunity to chat with someone about the preservation of digital archives.
signed0 14y ago
When this first came up I was trying to remember the last time I visited a blog that is hosted on Posterus, then I discovered that Ycombinator's blog[1] is still on Posterus, as is AirBnb's[2]. [1] http://blog.ycombinator.com/ http://blog.ycombinator.com/ [2] http://blog.airbnb.com/ http://blog.airbnb.com/
- garry 14y ago
  I'm going to move the YC blog shortly.
hooande 14y ago
I wonder if the posthaven founders have decided to make this into an open source like "foundation" (garrytan had mentioned interest in an earlier comment [1]) I think a lot of people could get behind the idea of a permanent entity that wasn't a for profit corporation. There is a strong case for building something that endures, something that can be counted on to last for decades if not centuries. Fiduciary responsibility means that corporations must sell their assets or shut down service if it's the most profitable thing to do. Not to mention that companies can wind up selling all kinds of data and usage information to whoever in a fire sale scenario. The world needs more services with incentives aligned to long term investment and global benefit as opposed to quarterly earnings numbers. Plus posthaven founders are a rare type of people with a record of making cool things. They have the ability to put together something that will be as useful in 2065 as it is today. A sort of "Posthaven Permanence Foundation" would be interesting. The key insight is that it might be valuable/profitable immediately, or even in the next 10 or 20 years. But if my back-of-the-envelopes are correct, posthaven could run for a very long time on a relatively small amount of capital. Organizations that are built around long term value have a way of winning in the end. [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5229862 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5229862
JacobAldridge 14y ago
Does forever mean for as long as I'm paying my monthly fee? Or does cancelling my account- eg, due to death - simply stop update - previous posts will still be accessible to readers?
bambax 14y ago
<plug shameless='no' shame='50%'> I just built Urgeous, a (very beta) Posterous clone, and describe my motivations here: http://urgeous.com/p72t3aaa40h-mourning-posterous-how-and-why-i-built-urgeous http://urgeous.com/p72t3aaa40h-mourning-posterous-how-and-wh... An API is coming (later today!) that will let you serve the posts from your own server, while Urgeous deals with storage and the like. The (current) plan is to stay free for things hosted on the Urgeous domain, and to charge for the API (other suggestions welcome). But since it's still very beta, the API will also be free when it opens. Check it out! Send a message to post@urgeous.com (supports Markdown) </plug>
- bambax 14y ago
  ... and here's the API: http://urgeous.com/p83t3aaa410 http://urgeous.com/p83t3aaa410
bambax 14y ago
Curiously, the links on the top left (Funny Stuff, Photoblog...) still point to Posterous...?

Garry's Posthaven

41 points by dmor 14y ago

manaskarekar 14y ago

Question: How easy will it be to move the data out of the service at any given point in the future?

aaronpk 14y ago
Never as easy as copying files off of a web host.

edouard1234567 14y ago

The pricing reads like it will cost $5/month forever. I suggest at least adding inflation.

manaskarekar 14y ago
From the pledge (https://posthaven.com/ourpledge https://posthaven.com/ourpledge) >Will it be $5 a month forever? >As long as we can! We'll do our best to keep it as reasonable as possible. If costs go up, we'll have to raise prices. If they go down, we'll lower them. >We believe fair's fair -- and we'll always be fair.
- edouard1234567 14y ago
  I suggest they remove the "forever" next to the price to make it clear the service will last forever, not the price. $5.00 in 2006 had about the same buying power as $0.43 in 1930, so $5 in 1930 is equivalent to $58 today.
  - kylec 14y ago
    The cost of bandwidth and storage is dropping at a faster rate than inflation. Besides, I'd say 90%+ of the blogs on a service like this would be mostly text and low traffic, and $5/month can cover that today several times over. That said, I'm not sure I'd trust another blogging service by the people that created Posterous. They already had a chance to demonstrate that they would keep the service running for the long haul and they didn't. I'd suggest people take their $5/month and spend it on Wordpress.com.

bslatkin 14y ago

I have some suggestions for Garry: http://www.onebigfluke.com/2013/02/blog-platforms-will-not-last-forever.html http://www.onebigfluke.com/2013/02/blog-platforms-will-not-l... "To actually commit to the claim of being 'the most durable blog platform ever created' and 'made to last forever', a blog hosting service should either: A) Require new users to bring their existing domain. OR B) Have users register for a new domain during sign-up. "

callmeed 14y ago
OR they could agree to 301 your URLs even after you leave (maybe for a small, one-time fee).
- bslatkin 14y ago
  301s assumes their host is up. Services disappear within 24 hours: "The shutdown will be quite abrupt: Memolane accounts and content are set to be deleted tomorrow" http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/21/memolane-the-internet-time-machine-app-for-exploring-past-social-network-content-is-shutting-down/ http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/21/memolane-the-internet-time-...
  - sgrove 14y ago
    Seems like 1.) they let their users know about a month ahead of time and 2.) they were only a secondary aggregator of existing content that wouldn't be lost by them going away. Your point still stands, that's just a poor example.
- garry 14y ago
  This is something Brett and I have discussed already. It's a good idea.
garry 14y ago
If you've ever accidentally let a domain lapse, it's pretty clear using your own domain is not necessarily more durable. Unless of course we figure out some way to auto-renew the domain, which is a possibility.

damm 14y ago

I'm sorry but their pledge does not say anything about what if they shut down? If they are trying to improve on Posterous they need to be up front with the fact that Posterous is closing and people don't want to move again in an year year when Posthaven shuts down. Businesses close, people die. If you are going to make a promise, make it worth it.

ziadbc 14y ago

It would be great if they can be successful at making a company where you can be confident that your data will not die; but flexible enough for the inevitable sampling of future 'bloggish' platforms that come out.

lkrubner 14y ago

App.net has evolved into a very good micro-blogging service, so why not use App.net instead? You can upload photos and post long essays on App.net. And App.net costs $3 a month, instead of $5 a month. But I would not choose App.net simply because it is a little cheaper than Posthaven. I would choose App.net because the guy who founded it, Dalton, seems to have some kind of long term vision. There is a heavy focus on the API as the future to a platform that goes beyond what Twitter is, and goes beyond what Posterous was. That longer term vision is enticing, because it also offers slightly more concrete possibility of longevity than the mere verbal promise offered by Posthaven. After all, the only way any of these services can offer longevity is by surviving, and the only way they can survive is to have an idea that really is adapted to what the world needs next.

mikeleeorg 14y ago
BTW, I'm looking at App.net right now and it says it's $5/month. Price increase?
- trafficlight 14y ago
  Or $36/year which works out to $3/month.
garry 14y ago
I love Dalton and App.net and am a supporter myself. We certainly have a road ahead of us to show how we will make it to forever. For now, we're building software.

arikrak 14y ago

If you have your own domain, you can always export your blog to another service, so what's the big deal? Also, if you want a reliable hosted service, you can always use the free Wordpress.com or Blogger instead of some new startup's offering. I don't think Wordpress or Blogger will be closing down anytime soon.

garry 14y ago
Note that we're not a startup. Our goals are to serve users and make software. If it made no money at all, I would still work on it.

jmathai 14y ago

I hate sounding like a broken record here but if you don't meet the following criteria then stop saying you're going to preserve users' data forever. * Have a full featured API right out of the gates * Outline how users get their data out of your system * Open source the code to ensure the ability for it to live on Pledges are cheap.

pg 14y ago
Not as cheap as dismissive comments on forums.
- jmathai 14y ago
  How's this dismissive? I've blogged and posted about this topic for a while [1]. I've also spent the last 2 years full time on a project that relates to data ownership and portability [2][3]. For those of us who write software specifically designed to solve this problem it's unfortunate when others make the same claims based simply on promises. [1] http://blog.theopenphotoproject.org/post/10537443380/namespacing-the-web-for-your-photos http://blog.theopenphotoproject.org/post/10537443380/namespa... [2] https://github.com/photo https://github.com/photo [3] http://www.shuttleworthfoundation.org/fellows/jaisen-mathai/ http://www.shuttleworthfoundation.org/fellows/jaisen-mathai/
  - garry 14y ago
    Your suggestions are absolutely valid, and I appreciate them Jaisen. Your efforts with the Open Photo Project are noble, and I respect them a ton. Give us some time -- Posthaven was a vague idea just a few months ago. We are under the gun to ship software at the moment.
    - jmathai 14y ago
      Appreciate the response. I do hope you get around to adding some of these features. The Internet needs services like that desperately. But until those features are released I have to remain a cynic :). Ping me on Twitter (@jmathai) if you wanted to grab coffee. I never pass an opportunity to chat with someone about the preservation of digital archives.

signed0 14y ago

When this first came up I was trying to remember the last time I visited a blog that is hosted on Posterus, then I discovered that Ycombinator's blog[1] is still on Posterus, as is AirBnb's[2]. [1] http://blog.ycombinator.com/ http://blog.ycombinator.com/ [2] http://blog.airbnb.com/ http://blog.airbnb.com/

garry 14y ago
I'm going to move the YC blog shortly.

hooande 14y ago

I wonder if the posthaven founders have decided to make this into an open source like "foundation" (garrytan had mentioned interest in an earlier comment [1]) I think a lot of people could get behind the idea of a permanent entity that wasn't a for profit corporation. There is a strong case for building something that endures, something that can be counted on to last for decades if not centuries. Fiduciary responsibility means that corporations must sell their assets or shut down service if it's the most profitable thing to do. Not to mention that companies can wind up selling all kinds of data and usage information to whoever in a fire sale scenario. The world needs more services with incentives aligned to long term investment and global benefit as opposed to quarterly earnings numbers. Plus posthaven founders are a rare type of people with a record of making cool things. They have the ability to put together something that will be as useful in 2065 as it is today. A sort of "Posthaven Permanence Foundation" would be interesting. The key insight is that it might be valuable/profitable immediately, or even in the next 10 or 20 years. But if my back-of-the-envelopes are correct, posthaven could run for a very long time on a relatively small amount of capital. Organizations that are built around long term value have a way of winning in the end. [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5229862 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5229862

JacobAldridge 14y ago

Does forever mean for as long as I'm paying my monthly fee? Or does cancelling my account- eg, due to death - simply stop update - previous posts will still be accessible to readers?

bambax 14y ago

<plug shameless='no' shame='50%'> I just built Urgeous, a (very beta) Posterous clone, and describe my motivations here: http://urgeous.com/p72t3aaa40h-mourning-posterous-how-and-why-i-built-urgeous http://urgeous.com/p72t3aaa40h-mourning-posterous-how-and-wh... An API is coming (later today!) that will let you serve the posts from your own server, while Urgeous deals with storage and the like. The (current) plan is to stay free for things hosted on the Urgeous domain, and to charge for the API (other suggestions welcome). But since it's still very beta, the API will also be free when it opens. Check it out! Send a message to post@urgeous.com (supports Markdown) </plug>

bambax 14y ago
... and here's the API: http://urgeous.com/p83t3aaa410 http://urgeous.com/p83t3aaa410

bambax 14y ago

Curiously, the links on the top left (Funny Stuff, Photoblog...) still point to Posterous...?