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"But what if you end up working on a product for a company that never makes them any money at all?" This isn't something that happens to you, this is something

"But what if you end up working on a product for a company that never makes them any money at all?" This isn't something that happens to you, this is something you choose. It's your responsibility as a consultant to pick your clients carefully. If you're talking about a project that everyone expects to have an enormous upside, but doesn't, and it's not your fault, you base your rates from the outset on the client's expectation of value returned, not what the actual result is.

drewcrawford 14y ago
> It's your responsibility as a consultant to pick your clients carefully. In the mobile industry, (and the web dev industry as well), the market functions on the basis that 90% or so of projects won't make the return, and the industry is carried by the 10%. In some sectors (consumer) this is higher, in others (B2B) it's lower, but it's about the right frame of reference give or take for most projects that ordinary people on HN perform. Now if you are a professional investor a 90% failure rate is easy because you just do 20 projects at once and you're fine. Similarly, if you are a large size consulting shop you're basically an investor with other people's time, so same story, just do 20 projects and 2 or so blow it out of the park and the rest are a waste and you get the quarterly bonus. However, if you're an individual or a couple of guys in a broom closet somewhere, 20 projects is a very long time. Unless you are independently wealthy and can just float many years of work, you can't make any money. And if you are independently wealthy, you have a higher chance of success becoming the large consulting shop or being a professional investor (or starting your own startup) than you have doing lots of free projects for other people. So what you are saying is nice in theory but for the average mobile/web developer thinking about contracting they don't have the volume necessary to assume the risk that the market ordinarily bears for development projects.
- ahoyhere 14y ago
  "So what you are saying is nice in theory but for the average mobile/web developer thinking about contracting they don't have the volume necessary to assume the risk that the market ordinarily bears for development projects." I know VERY "average" mobile web / mobile app developers who can charge well in excess of $100/hr. People without a single major hit. Seeing the quality of their output, I would never pay that much, and yet somehow they have all the work they need. (Note: they're not marketing geniuses either.) Just look at the rates people ask for, and get. They're way up there. Because there are so few of these people around, relative to demand, and because every Joe Schmo who wants to do a mobile app expects to strike it big, they can charge anything they want.

drewcrawford 14y ago

> It's your responsibility as a consultant to pick your clients carefully. In the mobile industry, (and the web dev industry as well), the market functions on the basis that 90% or so of projects won't make the return, and the industry is carried by the 10%. In some sectors (consumer) this is higher, in others (B2B) it's lower, but it's about the right frame of reference give or take for most projects that ordinary people on HN perform. Now if you are a professional investor a 90% failure rate is easy because you just do 20 projects at once and you're fine. Similarly, if you are a large size consulting shop you're basically an investor with other people's time, so same story, just do 20 projects and 2 or so blow it out of the park and the rest are a waste and you get the quarterly bonus. However, if you're an individual or a couple of guys in a broom closet somewhere, 20 projects is a very long time. Unless you are independently wealthy and can just float many years of work, you can't make any money. And if you are independently wealthy, you have a higher chance of success becoming the large consulting shop or being a professional investor (or starting your own startup) than you have doing lots of free projects for other people. So what you are saying is nice in theory but for the average mobile/web developer thinking about contracting they don't have the volume necessary to assume the risk that the market ordinarily bears for development projects.

ahoyhere 14y ago
"So what you are saying is nice in theory but for the average mobile/web developer thinking about contracting they don't have the volume necessary to assume the risk that the market ordinarily bears for development projects." I know VERY "average" mobile web / mobile app developers who can charge well in excess of $100/hr. People without a single major hit. Seeing the quality of their output, I would never pay that much, and yet somehow they have all the work they need. (Note: they're not marketing geniuses either.) Just look at the rates people ask for, and get. They're way up there. Because there are so few of these people around, relative to demand, and because every Joe Schmo who wants to do a mobile app expects to strike it big, they can charge anything they want.