4 ms·

I think the point that is left out by the article, but emphasized by Robert Lustig (Dr. mentioned in the article) is that sugar, in nature, is almost always acc

by JPKab 14y ago

I think the point that is left out by the article, but emphasized by Robert Lustig (Dr. mentioned in the article) is that sugar, in nature, is almost always accompanied by large quantities of fiber, which prevent it from being absorbed too quickly. Sugar isn't toxic, but refined sugar, or sugar that has been separated from the fiber it sits with (fruit juice) is indirectly toxic. Dr. Lustig's research has demonstrated this, and he has some very detailed lectures on the subject. He isn't some quack: he is a leading researcher in both understanding AND TREATING pediatric Type II Diabetes, which is a newly occurring disease. When I drink a beer, I understand that the alcohol I love so much in it is essentially a toxin, that in low enough quantities won't hurt me. I also know that regualr, periodic consumption of it will negatively effect my health. Oddly enough, Lustig's research has shown that fructose, in quantities which are completely normal for someone who has just consumed a moderate amount of refined sugar or fruit juice, has a very similar effect on the liver to alcohol. Not completely identical, but similar. I suggest you watch the video. I have a 6 year old son and a second child on the way. The only fruit juice he gets to have is extremely diluted with water. This isn't me overreacting as an ignoramus. I've looked at the data, evaluated the research, and found it extremely compelling. Ever use a juicer? Think about how many oranges it takes to make an 8 oz. glass. (It takes several, and if you tried to eat that many, you would be full halfway through due to the fiber.) Refined sugar is just juiced sugar cane with extra chemical preparation. Oranges are good for you. Orange juice is bad for you. I know it screams out BS, but I assure you, look at the science. You will, as I was, be shocked. How the hell can this stuff I've been eating all my life be THIS bad for me, without me knowing it.

lawtguy 14y ago
Moderate alcohol consumption actually increases longevity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_alcohol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_alcohol. So regular periodic consumption of a reasonable amount of alcohol is actually helping you.
- Evgeny 14y ago
  I read an article just recently that argues that the reasonable amount may be much lower than many people think. http://healthcorrelator.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/how-much-alcohol-is-optimal-maybe-less.html http://healthcorrelator.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/how-much-alc... But there is little variation in one respect. The optimal amount of alcohol is somewhere around 5 and 7 g/d, which translates into about the following every day: half a can of beer, half a glass of wine, or half a “shot” of spirit.
bostonOU 14y ago
I made juice this morning: 2 oranges, 2 kiwi, and 1 grapefruit. Made two cups of juice for my wife and me. I don't know about the science of sugar, but eating 1 orange, 1 kiwi, and half a grapefruit doesn't seem excessive to me.
- lnanek2 14y ago
  If you ate the fruit it would be much better for you. Instead you are basically taking something healthy overall, extracting the candy part out, and throwing away the parts that are best for you.
  - cooldeal 14y ago
    Well, atleast he's getting some vitamins and minerals. Eating fruit is better than drinking fresh fruit juice, which is better than drinking Mountain Dew.
    - learc83 14y ago
      If hewere drinking the fruit juice in place of Mountain Dew it might be better, but I doubt he was chugging Mountain Dew for breakfast before he started drinking fruit juice. The problem is that people think fruit juice is healthy and nutritious, and they aren't aware they should limit consumption.
  - bostonOU 14y ago
    We started drinking juice to replace cereal in the morning and to increase our vegetable intake. This morning, I just happened to only use fruit. I'd bet that eating the fruit & vegetables would be better. But at this point, neither my wife or I will be eating kale or celery for breakfast. Juicing helps us at least some vegetables in our diet. Baby steps.
- DanBC 14y ago
  But if you ate that fruit you'd be full, and thus less likely to eat other stuff. And that one cup of juice could be swigged down easily. You can see how some people would just pour another glass? (Especially if they think undiluted juice is healthy?)
kokey 14y ago
The juice thing is a bit more complex, because it depends on the type and form of the juice and what you do or eat along with it. I find that clear apple, grape and pineapple juice is not ideal, but very pulpy orange juice or very cloudy apple juice is fine, especially combined with exercise or the right meal as long as it's in proportions of how much of said fruit you would normally consume.
- mjallday 14y ago
  > I find that ... I'd love know more, where did you find this out?
  - kokey 14y ago
    Personal anecdotal experience. I've been having sugar metabolism issues which was diagnosed when I was quite young, basically reactive hypoglycemia after ingesting refined sugar. I was put on a controlled sugar free diet for a couple of years, then ignored it for much of my teens, and then sortof veered back onto it over the years. I was allowed fruit juices as a kid but was warned against consuming too many grapes. The main thing it seems to affect with me is an increased inattentiveness, and my ability to fall asleep at night. So I cut out sugar during my working day, and since I work on the computer I can determine how much I switch away from tasks (without realising I have drifted off, until later). I also cut it out in the evenings, since most days it makes it hard for me to fall asleep, similar to other forms of stimulation (e.g. suspenseful movies etc.) that keeps my mind racing. I also have a slightly increased heart rate. I have found what fruits and combinations work, or rather which ones doesn't work for me (e.g. if it's after 2am and I'm still awake after having a very relaxed evening). This is kind of in line with the findings from Langseth and Dowd and also Girardi on attention and sugar. I have generally had no problem with orange juice (regardless of how clear it is), but clear pineapple and grape not. My issues with it is not directly related to the toxicity theory, but I do think what throws my insulin response out of whack is probably the types of sugar that can be considered more on the toxic side. I'm also pretty fond of aspartame and saccarin. There's the very vague and rather unproven risk of cancer on the one hand (which also doesn't run in my family), or the clear risk of diabetes (runs in my family) on the other hand.
shrikant 14y ago
I'd like to thank you for bringing some sanity into this thread, and (hopefully) provoking some of the commenters here into doing some further reading. The kind of thought process that causes someone to go "Fructose is a sugar, fructose is in fruit, article says sugar is bad, therefore article says fruit is bad!!11one" is quite frustrating to watch. The levels of uninformed snark in this thread is quite depressing, and is one of the main reasons I usually prefer not to see non-technical discussions on HN. (Not that I know any better, but I recognise my lack of knowledge and attempt to address it before spouting forth opinions.)

by JPKab 14y ago

lawtguy 14y ago

Moderate alcohol consumption actually increases longevity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_alcohol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_alcohol. So regular periodic consumption of a reasonable amount of alcohol is actually helping you.

Evgeny 14y ago
I read an article just recently that argues that the reasonable amount may be much lower than many people think. http://healthcorrelator.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/how-much-alcohol-is-optimal-maybe-less.html http://healthcorrelator.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/how-much-alc... But there is little variation in one respect. The optimal amount of alcohol is somewhere around 5 and 7 g/d, which translates into about the following every day: half a can of beer, half a glass of wine, or half a “shot” of spirit.

bostonOU 14y ago

I made juice this morning: 2 oranges, 2 kiwi, and 1 grapefruit. Made two cups of juice for my wife and me. I don't know about the science of sugar, but eating 1 orange, 1 kiwi, and half a grapefruit doesn't seem excessive to me.

lnanek2 14y ago
If you ate the fruit it would be much better for you. Instead you are basically taking something healthy overall, extracting the candy part out, and throwing away the parts that are best for you.
- cooldeal 14y ago
  Well, atleast he's getting some vitamins and minerals. Eating fruit is better than drinking fresh fruit juice, which is better than drinking Mountain Dew.
  - learc83 14y ago
    If hewere drinking the fruit juice in place of Mountain Dew it might be better, but I doubt he was chugging Mountain Dew for breakfast before he started drinking fruit juice. The problem is that people think fruit juice is healthy and nutritious, and they aren't aware they should limit consumption.
- bostonOU 14y ago
  We started drinking juice to replace cereal in the morning and to increase our vegetable intake. This morning, I just happened to only use fruit. I'd bet that eating the fruit & vegetables would be better. But at this point, neither my wife or I will be eating kale or celery for breakfast. Juicing helps us at least some vegetables in our diet. Baby steps.
DanBC 14y ago
But if you ate that fruit you'd be full, and thus less likely to eat other stuff. And that one cup of juice could be swigged down easily. You can see how some people would just pour another glass? (Especially if they think undiluted juice is healthy?)

kokey 14y ago

The juice thing is a bit more complex, because it depends on the type and form of the juice and what you do or eat along with it. I find that clear apple, grape and pineapple juice is not ideal, but very pulpy orange juice or very cloudy apple juice is fine, especially combined with exercise or the right meal as long as it's in proportions of how much of said fruit you would normally consume.

mjallday 14y ago
> I find that ... I'd love know more, where did you find this out?
- kokey 14y ago
  Personal anecdotal experience. I've been having sugar metabolism issues which was diagnosed when I was quite young, basically reactive hypoglycemia after ingesting refined sugar. I was put on a controlled sugar free diet for a couple of years, then ignored it for much of my teens, and then sortof veered back onto it over the years. I was allowed fruit juices as a kid but was warned against consuming too many grapes. The main thing it seems to affect with me is an increased inattentiveness, and my ability to fall asleep at night. So I cut out sugar during my working day, and since I work on the computer I can determine how much I switch away from tasks (without realising I have drifted off, until later). I also cut it out in the evenings, since most days it makes it hard for me to fall asleep, similar to other forms of stimulation (e.g. suspenseful movies etc.) that keeps my mind racing. I also have a slightly increased heart rate. I have found what fruits and combinations work, or rather which ones doesn't work for me (e.g. if it's after 2am and I'm still awake after having a very relaxed evening). This is kind of in line with the findings from Langseth and Dowd and also Girardi on attention and sugar. I have generally had no problem with orange juice (regardless of how clear it is), but clear pineapple and grape not. My issues with it is not directly related to the toxicity theory, but I do think what throws my insulin response out of whack is probably the types of sugar that can be considered more on the toxic side. I'm also pretty fond of aspartame and saccarin. There's the very vague and rather unproven risk of cancer on the one hand (which also doesn't run in my family), or the clear risk of diabetes (runs in my family) on the other hand.

shrikant 14y ago

I'd like to thank you for bringing some sanity into this thread, and (hopefully) provoking some of the commenters here into doing some further reading. The kind of thought process that causes someone to go "Fructose is a sugar, fructose is in fruit, article says sugar is bad, therefore article says fruit is bad!!11one" is quite frustrating to watch. The levels of uninformed snark in this thread is quite depressing, and is one of the main reasons I usually prefer not to see non-technical discussions on HN. (Not that I know any better, but I recognise my lack of knowledge and attempt to address it before spouting forth opinions.)