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It is worth noting that the campaign to make spaying and neutering required has also done considerable harm. Puppies are often spayed and neutered as young as

It is worth noting that the campaign to make spaying and neutering required has also done considerable harm. Puppies are often spayed and neutered as young as 6 weeks, despite the numerous health problems associated with the practice. Even the standard 6 months causes significant increases in a number of health problems. We need to stop punishing our pets based on the notion that if we don't get them fixed early, they will breed via magic or spores or something of the sort. You can in fact prevent your dog from having sex with other dogs.

jug6ernaut 14y ago
"they will breed via magic or spores or something of the sort." You obviously don't understand the problem, the problem isn't with people who are responsible. The problem is with people dump there dogs on the side of the road, the people who breed there dogs because it sounded cool, or to make money and end up not being able to sell them/give them away and end up dumping them somewhere. I have never heard of "significant increases in a number of health problems" in spaying/neutering at the sixth month mark, this may be different for some dogs but thats besides the point. Spaying/neutering is not bad, doing so indiscriminately(like everything) is bad. I dont know where your coming from calling it "punishing" the pets. Even with the surgery itself most dogs are up & running in 1-2 days. I would agree that spaying/neutering is not the complete answer. We should be punishing people who hurt there pets. You should not be able to have a pet if you have been proven not responsible to have one, you should be punished for doing harm to them. Pets arn't the problem, people are. Pet over population and other problems are simply the sad side effect of humanity.
- papsosouid 14y ago
  >You obviously don't understand the problem, the problem isn't with people who are responsible That indicates that I do understand the problem. Trying to push responsible owners to harm their pets because other people would let their dogs breed doesn't make any sense. >I have never heard of "significant increases in a number of health problems" in spaying/neutering at the sixth month mark That is why I am mentioning it, because so few people realize there is a problem. There has been a blind push to having all animals spayed/neutered before they are mature, without regards to the welfare of the animals. A list of some health problems associated with desexing: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/02/17/dangers-of-early-pet-spaying-or-neutering.aspx http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/201... >I dont know where your coming from calling it "punishing" the pets. I suspect you would have no confusion if it were your sex organs being removed.
- Falling3 14y ago
  No that's not the entire problem. The author rightfully points out the issue with buying from large scale breeders - especially when so many adoptable pets are living in shelters.
- cantankerous 14y ago
  Pets are simply the sad side effect of humanity. What exactly is that supposed to mean? Pets can give their owners all kinds of health benefits, emotionally, and otherwise. Humanity isn't all bad, last I checked. I do enjoy my dog.
  - jug6ernaut 14y ago
    Sorry, allow me to clarify, the pet overpopulation problem* is simply a said side effect to humanity.
    - cantankerous 14y ago
      Got it ;-)!
manachar 14y ago
Do you have any sources for this? Vets and shelters I have had contact with indicate only a slight increased risk. I don't have their sources handy, but I do know they've researched the issue extensively. In general, only the more "old-fashioned" vets have qualms about early spaying and neutering. As to magic spores... well in a shelter environment if a puppy goes out intact it will likely not be fixed by the new owner, often just due to inertia, though occasionally through misguided notions of pet health (e.g. "she'll be so much happier if she just has _one_ litter). Cats of course are a whole different ball game as many people allow their cats to wander around the neighborhood.
- papsosouid 14y ago
  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10225598 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10225598 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12433723 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12433723 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9691849 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9691849 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3506104 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3506104 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11202221 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11202221 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15577502 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15577502 http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.2004.224.380 http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.2004.224.... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11787155 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11787155 http://www.grca.org/health/bigfour_hypo.html http://www.grca.org/health/bigfour_hypo.html >In general, only the more "old-fashioned" vets have qualms about early spaying and neutering. Is "old-fasioned" a code for "actually believes in that do no harm nonsense"? >As to magic spores... well in a shelter environment if a puppy goes out intact it will likely not be fixed by the new owner Yes, but my dog is not in a shelter, it is in my house. So the constant "you are a bad owner because your dog has testicles" bullshit really doesn't help save anyone or anything.
  - manachar 14y ago
    No, old-fashioned is not a code word for that specific test. it was the best word I could come with for a more traditional mindset vet. Some vets agree with you and consider it unethical. Many other vets disagree. Haven't read these all yet, but should note: Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—Because earlyage gonadectomy appears to offer more benefits than risks for male dogs, animal shelters can safely gonadectomize male dogs at a young age and veterinary practitioners should consider recommending routine gonadectomy for client-owned male dogs before the traditional age of 6 to 8 months. For female dogs, however, increased urinary incontinence suggests that delaying gonadectomy until at least 3 months of age may be beneficial. ( J Am Vet Med Assoc 2004; 224:380–387) (http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.2004.224.... http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.2004.224....) As to your dog, assuming it's adult what does early age neutering have to do with the situation? Sounds like you're getting some heat from others about your decision to not neuter an adult male dog. That's a different debate that has nothing to do with neutering dogs at a younger age.
__david__ 14y ago
> You can in fact prevent your dog from having sex with other dogs. Yes, mostly because dogs, in general, can be easily fenced in. Cats, however, are much more wily.
- papsosouid 14y ago
  Yes, I should have been more specific, as the research showing health problems is all on dogs. I would like to point out that indoor cats exist though.
  - __david__ 14y ago
    > Yes, I should have been more specific, as the research showing health problems is all on dogs. Ah, fair enough. > I would like to point out that indoor cats exist though. They exist in theory :-). I've had a few indoor cats--Every single one has gotten out at some point (cats are pretty sneaky bastards). One wasn't spayed when she got out and was gone for a about 4 hours. Guess who was pregnant when she got back? Sigh...
    - papsosouid 14y ago
      They exist in practice too. I've had 9 indoor cats. I have not had any problems with escaping (only 3 of them have even had a desire to go outside at all).
      - __david__ 14y ago
        Wow, that's pretty impressive. Every cat I've had has had a desire to outside at some point. I had a couple that learned how to open the screen door! So we put an extra door hook on it and they figured out that if they rattled it enough they could pop the hook out and get the door open anyway.
    - bluedino 14y ago
      Outdoor cats are a huge threat to wildlife as well. A skilled cat is capable of hunting just about anything in your backyard.

jug6ernaut 14y ago

"they will breed via magic or spores or something of the sort." You obviously don't understand the problem, the problem isn't with people who are responsible. The problem is with people dump there dogs on the side of the road, the people who breed there dogs because it sounded cool, or to make money and end up not being able to sell them/give them away and end up dumping them somewhere. I have never heard of "significant increases in a number of health problems" in spaying/neutering at the sixth month mark, this may be different for some dogs but thats besides the point. Spaying/neutering is not bad, doing so indiscriminately(like everything) is bad. I dont know where your coming from calling it "punishing" the pets. Even with the surgery itself most dogs are up & running in 1-2 days. I would agree that spaying/neutering is not the complete answer. We should be punishing people who hurt there pets. You should not be able to have a pet if you have been proven not responsible to have one, you should be punished for doing harm to them. Pets arn't the problem, people are. Pet over population and other problems are simply the sad side effect of humanity.

papsosouid 14y ago
>You obviously don't understand the problem, the problem isn't with people who are responsible That indicates that I do understand the problem. Trying to push responsible owners to harm their pets because other people would let their dogs breed doesn't make any sense. >I have never heard of "significant increases in a number of health problems" in spaying/neutering at the sixth month mark That is why I am mentioning it, because so few people realize there is a problem. There has been a blind push to having all animals spayed/neutered before they are mature, without regards to the welfare of the animals. A list of some health problems associated with desexing: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/02/17/dangers-of-early-pet-spaying-or-neutering.aspx http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/201... >I dont know where your coming from calling it "punishing" the pets. I suspect you would have no confusion if it were your sex organs being removed.
Falling3 14y ago
No that's not the entire problem. The author rightfully points out the issue with buying from large scale breeders - especially when so many adoptable pets are living in shelters.
cantankerous 14y ago
Pets are simply the sad side effect of humanity. What exactly is that supposed to mean? Pets can give their owners all kinds of health benefits, emotionally, and otherwise. Humanity isn't all bad, last I checked. I do enjoy my dog.
- jug6ernaut 14y ago
  Sorry, allow me to clarify, the pet overpopulation problem* is simply a said side effect to humanity.
  - cantankerous 14y ago
    Got it ;-)!

manachar 14y ago

Do you have any sources for this? Vets and shelters I have had contact with indicate only a slight increased risk. I don't have their sources handy, but I do know they've researched the issue extensively. In general, only the more "old-fashioned" vets have qualms about early spaying and neutering. As to magic spores... well in a shelter environment if a puppy goes out intact it will likely not be fixed by the new owner, often just due to inertia, though occasionally through misguided notions of pet health (e.g. "she'll be so much happier if she just has _one_ litter). Cats of course are a whole different ball game as many people allow their cats to wander around the neighborhood.

papsosouid 14y ago
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10225598 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10225598 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12433723 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12433723 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9691849 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9691849 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3506104 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3506104 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11202221 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11202221 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15577502 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15577502 http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.2004.224.380 http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.2004.224.... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11787155 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11787155 http://www.grca.org/health/bigfour_hypo.html http://www.grca.org/health/bigfour_hypo.html >In general, only the more "old-fashioned" vets have qualms about early spaying and neutering. Is "old-fasioned" a code for "actually believes in that do no harm nonsense"? >As to magic spores... well in a shelter environment if a puppy goes out intact it will likely not be fixed by the new owner Yes, but my dog is not in a shelter, it is in my house. So the constant "you are a bad owner because your dog has testicles" bullshit really doesn't help save anyone or anything.
- manachar 14y ago
  No, old-fashioned is not a code word for that specific test. it was the best word I could come with for a more traditional mindset vet. Some vets agree with you and consider it unethical. Many other vets disagree. Haven't read these all yet, but should note: Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—Because earlyage gonadectomy appears to offer more benefits than risks for male dogs, animal shelters can safely gonadectomize male dogs at a young age and veterinary practitioners should consider recommending routine gonadectomy for client-owned male dogs before the traditional age of 6 to 8 months. For female dogs, however, increased urinary incontinence suggests that delaying gonadectomy until at least 3 months of age may be beneficial. ( J Am Vet Med Assoc 2004; 224:380–387) (http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.2004.224.... http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.2004.224....) As to your dog, assuming it's adult what does early age neutering have to do with the situation? Sounds like you're getting some heat from others about your decision to not neuter an adult male dog. That's a different debate that has nothing to do with neutering dogs at a younger age.

__david__ 14y ago

> You can in fact prevent your dog from having sex with other dogs. Yes, mostly because dogs, in general, can be easily fenced in. Cats, however, are much more wily.

papsosouid 14y ago
Yes, I should have been more specific, as the research showing health problems is all on dogs. I would like to point out that indoor cats exist though.
- __david__ 14y ago
  > Yes, I should have been more specific, as the research showing health problems is all on dogs. Ah, fair enough. > I would like to point out that indoor cats exist though. They exist in theory :-). I've had a few indoor cats--Every single one has gotten out at some point (cats are pretty sneaky bastards). One wasn't spayed when she got out and was gone for a about 4 hours. Guess who was pregnant when she got back? Sigh...
  - papsosouid 14y ago
    They exist in practice too. I've had 9 indoor cats. I have not had any problems with escaping (only 3 of them have even had a desire to go outside at all).
    - __david__ 14y ago
      Wow, that's pretty impressive. Every cat I've had has had a desire to outside at some point. I had a couple that learned how to open the screen door! So we put an extra door hook on it and they figured out that if they rattled it enough they could pop the hook out and get the door open anyway.
  - bluedino 14y ago
    Outdoor cats are a huge threat to wildlife as well. A skilled cat is capable of hunting just about anything in your backyard.