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More details: (press release) http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/NA-DataCenters/DataCenters/AboutUs/3MInnovation/ http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3

by uvdiv 14y ago

More details: (press release) http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/NA-DataCenters/DataCenters/AboutUs/3MInnovation/ http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/NA-DataCenters/D... (technical data) http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MNovec/Home/ProductCatalog/?PC_7_RJH9U5230OOA50IEKHCMDN11H0000000_nid=VJK791MG8CbeQQBXSJ1LVVgl http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MNovec/Home/Pro... It's a phase-change system (the coolant boils). That's what the article means by "a thousand times better at conducting heat than water": it absorbs orders of magnitude more heat because of the phase change. It boils 49 °C at atmospheric pressure, cold enough for electronics. They claim it doesn't need fans: the boiling is enough to maintain natural circulation (convection) from the server to the heat sink.

jacques_chester 14y ago
Can you explain how this is different from fluorinert?
- Retric 14y ago
  Hopefully cost, fluorinert is vary expensive. Also, with a low boiling point of 49c you should be able to avoid pumps as long as you don't mind the components sitting at 120f.
  - uvdiv 14y ago
    This should be comparably costly, it's also a perfluoro compound. C2F5-(C=O)-CF(CF3)2
    - dodo53 14y ago
      Wouldn't it be pretty toxic (especially if it's a vapour?) In a sealed component in a datacentre that problem doesn't matter, but they're speculating about home use also.
      - arethuza 14y ago
        I don't know about that compound being toxic, but there are some splendidly awful fluorine compounds: http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2010/02/23/things_i_wont_work_with_dioxygen_difluoride.php http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2010/02/23/things_i_won...
        Gravityloss 14y ago
        Though that's completely different, it's an oxidizer. You have fluorine in your tooth paste. Hell, oxygen can be dangerous, nitrogen is used in a lot of explosives etc etc.
      - uvdiv 14y ago
        Probably not, C-F bonds are extremely stable, so perfluoro compounds are biologically inert. The datasheet says they made some animal inhale 10% (!) Novec gas for 4 hours without effect. http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=66666UF6EVsSyXTtNxf2oxf_EVtQEVs6EVs6EVs6E666666--&fn=Novec649_6003926.pdf http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=66666UF6EV...
        maxerickson 14y ago
        The idea of liquid breathing diving systems is usually tied to a perfluorocarbon.
        schiffern 14y ago
        It has half-life of 5 days in the atmosphere, so it's not that stable. According to the MSDS it and degrades both when exposed to UV and at high temperature (like those present in a structural fire) into hydrogen fluoride gas, which becomes hydrofluoric acid upon contact with moisture (including biological tissue). Also you're supposed to dike the area if a major spill occurs, but I'm pretty sure that's just MSDS boilerplate.
      - kragen 14y ago
        No, fluorocarbons in general are very inert, with the astonishing result that they're generally less toxic than water.
- matthiasl 14y ago
  I am not an expert in the field, but a quick look through the product pages at 3M suggests that the important difference is the boiling point. Novec boils at 49 degrees C, so for cooling electronics the primary mode of heat transfer will be the phase change. Fluorinert seems to boil at higher temperatures, 80 and > 200 degrees for the two variants I looked at. They seem to be in the same family of products and several of their physical properties are very similar, so maybe they're just variants. Here's a link to a page which has both families: http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/cleaners/3m-fluids/ http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/cleaners/3m-fluids/
- uvdiv 14y ago
  I have no knowledge on this subject, but - According to wikipedia [0], fluorinert as used in the Cray was a single-phase coolant (no boiling). It needed fluid pumps and chilled water, at high energy cost; this phase-change solution avoids both. - Wikipedia claims fluorinert has a very long atmospheric lifetime and high global-warming potential. [1] 3M claims this new fluid is destroyed by sunlight [2], and doesn't have the same problems. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray-2#Packed_circuit_boards_and_new_design_ideas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray-2#Packed_circuit_boards_a... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorinert#Toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorinert#Toxicity [2] (PDF) http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=66666UF6EVsSyXTtNxf2oxf_EVtQEVs6EVs6EVs6E666666--&fn=Novec649_6003926.pdf http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=66666UF6EV... (The "M.J. Molina" in the datasheet is the Nobelist and co-discoverer of the ozone hole)
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
moreati 14y ago
I'm confused, or maybe The Register's article is. It states "boffins at Leeds University and British start-up Icetope have invented a super cooling liquid", but also refers to "Dunking servers in new magic liquid 3M Novec" and has no mention of phase change/evaporation. Are we talking about a single liquid? Did 3M license the formula from Leeds Uni/Icetope? I'll try to understand it better this evening
- uvdiv 14y ago
  I think I was wrong. There's only one coolant (or coolant family), but several server-cooling systems. There are both liquid and phase-change systems, and I'm not sure which this is. 3M is the chemical firm which developed the coolant ("Novec"). Leeds/Iceotope is a customer: "UK company Iceotope, that patented liquid cooling for servers in the data center back in 2009, has released new products to market that use 3M’s Novec, an engineered non-flammable solvent it says makes the cooling process safer." http://blog.iceotope.com/2012/03/iceotope-liquid-cools-cabinets-and.html http://blog.iceotope.com/2012/03/iceotope-liquid-cools-cabin... 3M is also developing a server cooling system, independent of Leeds/Iceotope. This is the one in this press release, and I was mistaken to identify the one with the other. http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/NA-DataCenters/DataCenters/AboutUs/3MInnovation/ http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/NA-DataCenters/D... The 3M system is phase-change. I'm no longer sure what the Register is writing about, but Iceotope is researching both liquid and phase-change systems: "Iceotope Ltd, registered in Guernsey, is a technology company that researches and develops liquid and phase change cooling solutions based around heat pipe encapsulation." http://blog.iceotope.com/2011/12/assets-of-green-data-centre-specialist.html http://blog.iceotope.com/2011/12/assets-of-green-data-centre... Here's their liquid cooling system. One property of these coolants is their very low boiling point. That's useful for phase-change cooling. Another is that they have very high thermal expansivity, which means that they convect strongly as liquids (without phase change). That's useful for strictly liquid cooling. http://blog.iceotope.com/2012/09/liquid-cooling-halves-data-centre-power.html http://blog.iceotope.com/2012/09/liquid-cooling-halves-data-... They say the convection is 20-40x stronger than water, and overall heat removal 10-15x better. Since the Register article is saying "a thousand times" better heat conduction, I think they're taking about a phase change system. At least for that specific figure.
iwwr 14y ago
Why not just use standard freons?
- g8oz 14y ago
  Freon is being phased out due to its ability to damage the ozone layer. I think you mean why don't they use standard commerical refrigerants. I believe the answer is that the 3M Novec family of engineered fluids has higher performance and lower toxicity/GWP.

by uvdiv 14y ago

jacques_chester 14y ago

Can you explain how this is different from fluorinert?

Retric 14y ago
Hopefully cost, fluorinert is vary expensive. Also, with a low boiling point of 49c you should be able to avoid pumps as long as you don't mind the components sitting at 120f.
- uvdiv 14y ago
  This should be comparably costly, it's also a perfluoro compound. C2F5-(C=O)-CF(CF3)2
  - dodo53 14y ago
    Wouldn't it be pretty toxic (especially if it's a vapour?) In a sealed component in a datacentre that problem doesn't matter, but they're speculating about home use also.
    - arethuza 14y ago
      I don't know about that compound being toxic, but there are some splendidly awful fluorine compounds: http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2010/02/23/things_i_wont_work_with_dioxygen_difluoride.php http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2010/02/23/things_i_won...
      - Gravityloss 14y ago
        Though that's completely different, it's an oxidizer. You have fluorine in your tooth paste. Hell, oxygen can be dangerous, nitrogen is used in a lot of explosives etc etc.
    - uvdiv 14y ago
      Probably not, C-F bonds are extremely stable, so perfluoro compounds are biologically inert. The datasheet says they made some animal inhale 10% (!) Novec gas for 4 hours without effect. http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=66666UF6EVsSyXTtNxf2oxf_EVtQEVs6EVs6EVs6E666666--&fn=Novec649_6003926.pdf http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=66666UF6EV...
      - maxerickson 14y ago
        The idea of liquid breathing diving systems is usually tied to a perfluorocarbon.
      - schiffern 14y ago
        It has half-life of 5 days in the atmosphere, so it's not that stable. According to the MSDS it and degrades both when exposed to UV and at high temperature (like those present in a structural fire) into hydrogen fluoride gas, which becomes hydrofluoric acid upon contact with moisture (including biological tissue). Also you're supposed to dike the area if a major spill occurs, but I'm pretty sure that's just MSDS boilerplate.
    - kragen 14y ago
      No, fluorocarbons in general are very inert, with the astonishing result that they're generally less toxic than water.
matthiasl 14y ago
I am not an expert in the field, but a quick look through the product pages at 3M suggests that the important difference is the boiling point. Novec boils at 49 degrees C, so for cooling electronics the primary mode of heat transfer will be the phase change. Fluorinert seems to boil at higher temperatures, 80 and > 200 degrees for the two variants I looked at. They seem to be in the same family of products and several of their physical properties are very similar, so maybe they're just variants. Here's a link to a page which has both families: http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/cleaners/3m-fluids/ http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/cleaners/3m-fluids/
uvdiv 14y ago
I have no knowledge on this subject, but - According to wikipedia [0], fluorinert as used in the Cray was a single-phase coolant (no boiling). It needed fluid pumps and chilled water, at high energy cost; this phase-change solution avoids both. - Wikipedia claims fluorinert has a very long atmospheric lifetime and high global-warming potential. [1] 3M claims this new fluid is destroyed by sunlight [2], and doesn't have the same problems. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray-2#Packed_circuit_boards_and_new_design_ideas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray-2#Packed_circuit_boards_a... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorinert#Toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorinert#Toxicity [2] (PDF) http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=66666UF6EVsSyXTtNxf2oxf_EVtQEVs6EVs6EVs6E666666--&fn=Novec649_6003926.pdf http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=66666UF6EV... (The "M.J. Molina" in the datasheet is the Nobelist and co-discoverer of the ozone hole)
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

moreati 14y ago

I'm confused, or maybe The Register's article is. It states "boffins at Leeds University and British start-up Icetope have invented a super cooling liquid", but also refers to "Dunking servers in new magic liquid 3M Novec" and has no mention of phase change/evaporation. Are we talking about a single liquid? Did 3M license the formula from Leeds Uni/Icetope? I'll try to understand it better this evening

uvdiv 14y ago
I think I was wrong. There's only one coolant (or coolant family), but several server-cooling systems. There are both liquid and phase-change systems, and I'm not sure which this is. 3M is the chemical firm which developed the coolant ("Novec"). Leeds/Iceotope is a customer: "UK company Iceotope, that patented liquid cooling for servers in the data center back in 2009, has released new products to market that use 3M’s Novec, an engineered non-flammable solvent it says makes the cooling process safer." http://blog.iceotope.com/2012/03/iceotope-liquid-cools-cabinets-and.html http://blog.iceotope.com/2012/03/iceotope-liquid-cools-cabin... 3M is also developing a server cooling system, independent of Leeds/Iceotope. This is the one in this press release, and I was mistaken to identify the one with the other. http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/NA-DataCenters/DataCenters/AboutUs/3MInnovation/ http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/NA-DataCenters/D... The 3M system is phase-change. I'm no longer sure what the Register is writing about, but Iceotope is researching both liquid and phase-change systems: "Iceotope Ltd, registered in Guernsey, is a technology company that researches and develops liquid and phase change cooling solutions based around heat pipe encapsulation." http://blog.iceotope.com/2011/12/assets-of-green-data-centre-specialist.html http://blog.iceotope.com/2011/12/assets-of-green-data-centre... Here's their liquid cooling system. One property of these coolants is their very low boiling point. That's useful for phase-change cooling. Another is that they have very high thermal expansivity, which means that they convect strongly as liquids (without phase change). That's useful for strictly liquid cooling. http://blog.iceotope.com/2012/09/liquid-cooling-halves-data-centre-power.html http://blog.iceotope.com/2012/09/liquid-cooling-halves-data-... They say the convection is 20-40x stronger than water, and overall heat removal 10-15x better. Since the Register article is saying "a thousand times" better heat conduction, I think they're taking about a phase change system. At least for that specific figure.

iwwr 14y ago

Why not just use standard freons?

g8oz 14y ago
Freon is being phased out due to its ability to damage the ozone layer. I think you mean why don't they use standard commerical refrigerants. I believe the answer is that the 3M Novec family of engineered fluids has higher performance and lower toxicity/GWP.