10 ms·

An Unremarkable Event in the Tenderloin

160 points by jbaudanza 14y ago

nose 14y ago
I think http://currywithoutworry.org http://currywithoutworry.org is an excellent solution to the problem. I think it makes a huge difference in the community. People in need are able to interact, and help each other without worrying about dinner once a week.
deleted 14y ago
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akaru 14y ago
I've been homeless. No one in SF is hungry. In a span of a few blocks a person could eat for free 5 or 6 times a day. Money is used for drugs or McDonald's. My advice: don't give anyone money or food. If you want to help, give your time.
- namank 14y ago
  In a span of a few blocks a person could eat for free 5 or 6 times a day. Care to expand?
  - w1ntermute 14y ago
    He's probably referring to the preponderance of foodbanks.
  - akaru 14y ago
    Sure. I'm talking about "soup kitchens". They really are plentiful. I even know of one that only served vegetarian food, and always had a full loaf of bread you could take with you after your meal. There are four or five just in the TL. I found during my stint I would just walk from one to the other and sit for coffee and snack.
- iamwil 14y ago
  Is it because the homeless shelters provide food? Where do you get food from?
  - akaru 14y ago
    Some shelters are associated with a parent (church etc.) that also provides food, but they're typically separate. Seriously, the only people who could possibly be hungry are invalids or children that can't get to the food banks. Any person that can walk around begging for change could easily walk a few blocks for a healthy hot meal. "Help, I'm hungry" is an outright lie---every time--plain and simple.
    - mct 14y ago
      I make a point of carrying a few Cliff Bars in my backpack, to offer to people who ask for money. Some people turn them down, but a number also happily accept them. There are no good solutions, but this is the best compromise I've come up with so far.
- dsrguru 14y ago
  As someone who hasn't spent much time in SF but plans to move there very soon and doesn't want to live off of ramen, I genuinely want to know: where does one get those free meals? Edit: namank and iamwill beat me to it.
  - gee_totes 14y ago
    Most dumpsters/trash cans in big cities have tons of free food, you just have to keep your eyes open.
    - sebcat 14y ago
      A couple of years ago, a couple getting their food from trashcans around here got poisoned by the cooling agent you put in cars. They were found in their apt. a couple of weeks later. The hypothesis was that someone was tired of having them going through their trash. They were not homeless. A criminal investigation was made. It is used as a scenario in school, and that's how I know about it. The pictures were... "interesting". Not saying it's common, but if I ever have to get my food from trash cans I will make damned sure that it's at least properly sealed.
  - akaru 14y ago
    I've had the thought a few times while going for broke on my startup. The food was totally fine, and the shelters generally safe, but, well, the clientele was not generally people you'd wish to associate with. Food, even healthy food, can be cheap if you're willing to spend a bit of time preparing. I'd cook a pot of beans before hitting up soup kitchens.
  - glurgh 14y ago
    http://www.freeprintshop.org/download/eats_english.pdf http://www.freeprintshop.org/download/eats_english.pdf
  - wavesounds 14y ago
    Honestly your going to have to wait in long lines with some of the worst smells you can possibly imagine.
- thinker 14y ago
  Just curious but by free are you referring to food shelters?
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
densone 14y ago
Damn, I hate subway.
- bluepanda_ 14y ago
  Lol.
clivestaples 14y ago
You did the right thing. Hunger pains suck.
eshvk 14y ago
That was heart wrenchingly sad, thank you for doing this. I live in the Haight and I see people shivering in the cold and realize how good my life is. I am never sure whether to help people or not. I have heard contradictory stories of trustafarians and the whole philosophy that giving people money doesn't help them. Ultimately, despite all the bustle of tech, it feels like we are letting down the poorest of the poor by not helping them someway or the other.
- rdouble 14y ago
  Haight is mostly scammers and trustafarians. Well... 'trustafarian' is the wrong word. The gutter punk type kids don't really have trust funds. When I lived there from 2006-2009, there was a very short african american guy who would pretend to be mentally retarded and everyone would give him money. However, he would totally be chillin' non-retardedly after hours at Escape from New York pizza and Milk Bar. Most of the homeless people in the Tenderloin are legitimately down and out.
  - Osiris 14y ago
    I used to walk down Market street and pass guys sleeping at 12pm in a beat up sleeping bag with a garbage bag of stuff next to them. It's hard to believe those people are 'scammers'. But what do you do? Most have metal disabilities or other problems that prevent them from contributing back to society.
    - rdouble 14y ago
      Market street is a different scene than the Haight.
TheSisb2 14y ago
Moments of beauty, as I see them.
jianghong 14y ago
I usually try to help out and give the less fortunate the change in my pocket when I can, but this one instance really made me reluctant to continue giving. He was inside starbucks and was walking out the door while I was waiting for a chance to enter. He stopped me and told me his name was Marcus, he was really hungry and needed some money for food. I gave him what was in my pocket, about ~2 bucks. He took it, looked at me and said "That's it?". He scoffed and walked away. I know, I know, one person can't represent everyone. It just stung and comes to my mind whenever I think about giving.
- CamperBob2 14y ago
  I see a lot of people in this thread who don't seem to have heard that many, if not most, of these people are scammers. I also see a lot of people who don't seem to understand that you get more of what you subsidize, whether you want it or not. Just putting that out here.
  - jrochkind1 14y ago
    What does it mean for a panhandler to be a 'scammer'? They're not really homeless at all, they actually live in a mansion in Beverly Hills with a two car garage, and manage to pay for it all by asking for change on the street all day pretending to be homeless?
    - kooshball 14y ago
      Panhandlers and the homeless are two totally different things. Of course one doesnt have to be homeless to panhandle. By scamming, the parent poster was probably referring to stuff like "hey can I get a few bucks for a bus ticket" or "hey can I get some money for gas". That's pretty much always a scam.
    - rdouble 14y ago
      It's more like a guy who has been living in a $400 rent controlled 2BD apartment on Fell since 1991. He charges his roommate $800 a month, then goes and scams people on Haight for pizza money, but mainly just for kicks.
benwerd 14y ago
Every so often, I'll buy someone a meal: Subway, or some noodles, or something like that. Or I'll give them $5 for the BART, or whatever. Absolutely no skin off my nose; a big deal for them. And every single time, the look of joy and surprise on their faces completely cuts through any cynicism I might have had about the interaction. I figure, every single person who's out there begging is in need. I wish there were better programs out there to help them, and I wish our community could help out. I sometimes wonder if the people selling Street Spirit could be selling a product that people actually want instead (even if it's just a magazine like the Big Issue). I don't know the answers, but it makes me sad, too.
- walkon 14y ago
  > I figure, every single person who's out there begging is in need. Then you've figured incorrectly. There are absolutely a high number of these people who are scamming. A major reason they persist and misdirect resources from those that are truly need, is because of those who blindly assume "every single person" is in need.
rosser 14y ago
This is just me, and my approach to the homeless or destitute, but if someone asks me for money, the answer is some form of no (if I even acknowledge the asker). Yeah, you tell me you're hungry or whatever, but I'm not going to risk participating in your next fix. If they ask me for food, however, it's always a yes, assuming I can do it right then (not late for something, have money or my card on me or whatever). You wouldn't believe how rarely that actually happens. I don't spend a lot of time in the Tenderloin — though I do pass through it fairly regularly — but actually being asked for food is pretty much the opposite of "unremarkable" in my experience.
- enneff 14y ago
  I tried to take this attitude a while ago, but after being abused and accused of mistrust too many times (the homeless aren't actually starving in Australia) I returned to ignoring such people. The worst was when a couple implored me to give them some money for accommodation, as they had been evicted. I said "Sure, let's go to a hotel right now and I'll check you in." They called me a bunch of expletives and stormed off. !
  - kevincrane 14y ago
    Same. A homeless guy walked by an alley near my house once and asked for money for food. I walked inside and came out with a half-dozen cans of tuna for him, and he started swearing and saying he didn't want "that cat food". I just stared at him, said "I eat this stuff. If you don't want it, then nothing for you." The guy just flipped me off and walked away. Good deed averted.
    - wyclif 14y ago
      You did the right thing; that person was trying to score. I also offer them food only. If they don't accept it, it's usually because they are junkies and want someone to extend their habit.
- wwweston 14y ago
  I know someone who's been experimenting with the same rough idea, but trying to be a bit proactive about things by putting together small kits of food/water/stuff (granola bars, raisin packets, water bottles, gift cards for chain restaurants, socks, toiletries) and keeping a few in the car to just hand out when he gets asked. This is in LA, where you're usually in the car when you see unfamiliar people (down on their luck or not), so YMMV in places like SF where foot traffic is more the rule and you may not be habitually carrying lots of extra baggage. Carrying a Subway gift card specifically to give away might work out, though. Maybe pair it with the card of addresses for local help institutions (shelter, food, addiction treatment, mental health if we still have any of these) for extra mileage.
yankoff 14y ago
They sell you an opportunity to feel good about yourself.
chrisbumgardner 14y ago
Thanks for writing this. I work right by there, walk to work from my home, and know how you feel. As jaded as it can become on a daily basis, empathy is always a good thing in my opinion.
hy3lxs 14y ago
I don't know if you did the "right" thing, whatever the hell that means, but I think you did the humane thing.
bluepanda_ 14y ago
Nobody knows what circumstances lead these people to the kind of lives they have now, but if unlike most of us, they were just unfortunate, then you definitely did the right thing. I live in NYC, which doesn't lack homeless people either, and like you, I find myself saying no too many times. So sometimes, I just act on instinct and give away that Valducci's Original pizza slice or Boston Kreme Donut I have been craving all day, and it actually feels better than satisfying my hunger.
ricardobeat 14y ago
We get used to being asked for money and saying no, and there's always a good chance you're being conned, but at least you know you didn't let someone down. Giving out food instead of money is a much clearer-cut situation, though I've witnessed a dirty, homeless boy throw just-purchased food away - he wanted the money :/
ethikal 14y ago
I think all of us battle with those feelings. In this circumstance, what you did was the right thing. On one occasion, I was driving through on Market St towards Castro when I saw a disheveled younger man in his twenties with a sign "Don't want money. Just food." As I pulled up to a stoplight, I turned to my girlfriend and asked, "do we have anything?" And we did - two bagels and a croissant. We didn't mind going hungry because once we gave him the food, he did a giddy little dance... as if there were nothing else in the world that could've made him happier. That said, on a totally different circumstance, while eating outside at Union Sq I was approached by a bum who "just wanted food." After I got up from the table and asked him to lead the way to the "pizza place" he wanted to grab something from, he realized his bluff had been called and he walked away (he was hoping that I would be lazy and just give him some money). I guess this boils down to a bigger philosophical question, which is "am I doing the right thing, or am I getting taken advantage of?" My solution is to go the extra mile and assume the best of people. Just put the right checks in place so that you can also avoid getting taken advantage of.
twakefield 14y ago
I'm relatively new to San Francisco and to a newcomer, the contrast between neighborhoods is shocking. I came from New York so I was used to micro-neighborhoods but SF takes it to a different level. It seems that SF has decided to herd all of the criminal activity and destitute people into certain neighborhoods and just contain it versus solution based approaches. I have no idea if this is the actual strategy but it sure seems like it.
- cpeterso 14y ago
  You are correct. The SFPD effectively herds the "problem people" into the Tenderloin. Something like "Escape from New York."
chao- 14y ago
You can't help everyone you see, or even half the people you see, and still have the time and resources to help yourself. What's important is to know what you're comfortable with doing, why you're comfortable with it: Personally, I will buy or give food, but never give money. Sometimes, when asked for money, I will offer to walk with them to get them food instead. Sometimes I remember that I'm pinching pennies on damn-near everything, to have just one more month's rent, just one more week of food, and have that much longer for my company to succeed. So I shrug and tell them the truth: "Sorry, right now I don't have an income either." Sometimes "Zombie By The Cranberries By Andrew Jackson Jihad" starts playing in my head and I'm too lost in thought to prepare a response in advance. By the time we cross paths and they say something, I end up genuinely startled and its awkward for everyone. I also don't have a point to make. Like you, this kind of thing makes me feel bad, and I just need to vent about it for a moment. At least we both can be sure our sense of sympathy is functional.
- Osiris 14y ago
  I agree. If someone asks for food, you know that they are hungry (they can't turn around and sell the food for profit). However, if they ask for money, you don't really know what their needs are. My mother works at a seasonal food bank that provides meals in the winter and I think that's one of the best services we can provide for people that cannot provide for themselves. Food is also relatively less expensive than other aids, such as rent controlled housing.
phatmann 14y ago
I at one time carried around some peanut butter and jelly sandwiches which i offered to street people when asked for a handout. I got about a 50% acceptance rate and on the sandwiches. so, i think it's not all for drugs. If I missed a couple of paychecks, it could be me on the street end
kjackson2012 14y ago
At the Safeway where I live, there are nuns that stand outside with a grocery list of food they ask people to donate for them. I didn't know if they were really nuns so I asked the cashier, and they confirmed it, so it made it a lot easier for me to go ahead and donate food. They make food for the homeless and the donation goes straight into feeding these poor people so it's a lot better than giving food or money directly to the person, who will likely use it for drugs, etc.
- jrochkind1 14y ago
  I liked the sentence in original post, "Maybe it was because we had something in common: we both wanted a sandwich. Except that I was actually going to get one. I can have as many sandwiches from Subway as I want." Sometimes what I've got in common with a homeless panhandler is that we both want a beer. I use some portion of MY money for drugs (including beer), I don't see why it should bother me if a homeless person does too. Whether or not they're going to use it on beer, I know they're a lot less comfortable than me either way, and I'm not hardly going to miss the 50 cents or $1 I contribute.
  - drewrv 14y ago
    My concern isn't that they'll use it for drugs or beer, my concern is that the beer/drugs are what made them homeless in the first place. Giving them money for this stuff is potentially making their problem worse.
  - kalleboo 14y ago
    There's a difference when you're giving an addict drugs, it's not longer a nice gesture. Think of it like offering a drink to someone at AA - you're going to send them back into the dark hole.
mjallday 14y ago
Is SF atypical in the number of mentally unstable homeless people? I moved to the US a year ago and am still blown away by the shear number of drugged up or crazy people living in the middle of the city. I've seen plenty of homeless people on my travels around the world but usually they are poor, not mentally unstable (to my knowledge).
- rdouble 14y ago
  Yes.
- eob 14y ago
  Yes. It's shocking for Americans from other parts of the country as well.
djmdjm 14y ago
What's remarkable about this is how the poster finds these casual encounters with homelessness "unremarkable". No other western city that I have visited has the massive, in-your-face homelessness as SF. I don't know enough about the causes of this phenomenon in SF to suggest what can be done about it; I'm sure they are complex, multi-factorial and politically fraught, but the level of homelessness in SF and (almost) everyone's blase acceptance of it shocks me every time I visit.
- unkleruckus 14y ago
  I live in the Mission and work in Soma. I ride my bike under a stretch of 101 where there are usually several people sleeping. I am not sure if this is "accepted" or not but everyone seems to just ignore it completely.
  - yannk 14y ago
    It pretty much describes every single spot under 101 in the city... 17th has become worse in the recent months/year
- eob 14y ago
  I have this reaction every time I visit a west coast city. So far, that includes San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle. I've always assumed it has something to do with the climate being more amenable to homelessness. But thinking about it now there must be some other political or structural reasons at play.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    Failed startup founders?
- sbov 14y ago
  Some cities in the US just make it illegal to be homeless. Problem solved.
  - 14y ago
jameslevy 14y ago
I just gave a slice of chocolate cake to a homeless man on University Ave. in Palo Alto today. A man who has nothing except for a slice of fancy cake. Just a couple blocks from Palantir, where Facebook was a few years ago.
- Torgo 14y ago
  There used to be an old guy camping out behind a building, near where I worked. I started talking to him and offered to buy him food for which he was grateful. He never asked for money, he was happy to get a sandwich and a large bottle of water so he'd have something to take his numerous pills from the VA with. He told me, after I inquired more about him that he was a Vietnam vet among other things. I know this is a cliche, but it wasn't information he volunteered out of the blue. He was my dad's age and I believed him. The last time I saw him he shook my hand and thanked me. I remember his hands were enormous and the skin was hard like rock. I don't have a reason for sharing this other than your post reminded me of him.
irollboozers 14y ago
I don't know what it is, but posts like this make me feel like HN is waking up and realizing the world isn't just 'social networks for dogs', and that there are real social problems out there needing to be fixed. There is a trend happening. This post is powerful because it's recognition. The act was powerful because it was recognition, which then led to real action. If judging by recent posts on HN, hopefully posts like this lead to more action. I want to think that this will lead to more smart thinkers here spending time to use technology do some sort of action. Even if just like the author, people think it's just one drop in the bucket unsure of any real impact, at some point we might actually begin to fill this bucket. Eventually sandwiches will turn into code. We need more of this.
- bitcartel 14y ago
  I posted this a few months ago. Worth watching. VIDEO: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/social-issues/poor-kids/seras-story/ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/social-issues/poor-k... San Francisco is the most expensive place in America to find a home, but that doesn’t deter the 400,000 people coming each year to the Bay Area in search of a new home and a new life. Eleven-year-old Sera, her sister and her mother moved to San Francisco in 2009. But when the economy collapsed, her mother lost her job and the family now survives on her $600 monthly unemployment checks. After five months in a shelter and more than a year in transitional housing, the family has moved to a one-room rent-subsidized apartment in the Tenderloin — a neighborhood synonymous with drugs and violence — while they wait for subsidized housing to come through. But they are just one missed rental payment away from returning to the shelter.
  - sdqali 14y ago
    Thanks for that link.
  - SilasX 14y ago
    That came up on reddit too. Why are we paying insane prices to house these people in the most valuable real estate in the world, when you could help 10x as many by housing them in some place that actually affordable? It boggles the mind.
free652 14y ago
I don't give anyone money, but if a some poor soul asked for food I'd buy / give in a heartbeat. But never cash.
stephenhandley 14y ago
blog post
brnstz 14y ago
As others have said, in many cases the request for food is a bluff hoping for money. There is a guy in my Brooklyn neighborhood who stands on the corner every day asking everyone, "Hey, can I get $3 to get something to eat?" We call him $3 guy. In large cities, there is not a lack of food for the homeless. (Although, to be honest, maybe it's not so easy to get to the right place at the right time, if you are strung out.) I used to call the bluff, and have bought many sandwiches and slices of pizza (except for that guy begging in the pizza place who said he didn't like pizza [cash only, please]). At this point, I almost prefer giving out cigarettes. This is case of "give a man a fish / teach him to fish" on a grand scale. I'm far from an expert on homelessness, but I really like things like The Doe Fund: http://www.doe.org/ http://www.doe.org/ Getting people out of drug/alcohol/crime/convict-status-induced homelessness is not an easy task. Helping people get their shit together, finding a purpose, and getting a job they can do is exhausting, soul-crushing work. The people who do this work are saints. Buying a guy a sandwich is no big deal.
zoowar 14y ago
I say, "No, but thanks for asking"
mikebracco 14y ago
Sort of off topic but related... I wonder how the homeless will fair when we become a cash-less society. This may be far off but it's inevitable. While initially one might think the homeless will be worse off, I can imagine technology actually improving things. Imagine some sort of NFC chip or ID a homeless could obtain from a shelter that would allow someone to give money to them from their mobile phone...and then perhaps gamifying the goodwill (leaderboards based on city or social graph) for the donators.
- Finbarr 14y ago
  This is interesting. What if all homeless people in SF were issued a cash card. The balance of the card would be controlled remotely and it could be (de)activated at any time. People who want to help the homeless could pool money together and the funds could be put onto the cards at the point of need. Perhaps retailers would be able to request the balance on behalf of the purchaser somehow - phone, web, etc. If people stopped giving cash to homeless, a system such as this could restrict the flow of money to drug dealers and liquor stores.
  - kalleboo 14y ago
    Food stamps?
stuntgoat 14y ago
I was shocked when I came from NY to SF. The streets are incredibly dirty and some of the homeless are in really bad shape. Someone posted this link on Twitter (I saw it here on HN a bit later), and I got some insight as to why this is the case. http://www.sfweekly.com/2009-12-16/news/the-worst-run-big-city-in-the-u-s/ http://www.sfweekly.com/2009-12-16/news/the-worst-run-big-ci...
ixacto 14y ago
I tried to give a homeless person information on DSHS where they would be able to recive $200 month in food benefits (WA) plus who knows how much in TANF (welfare), and got told to fuck off to my face. My pity for the homeless has diminished since then.
chrismaeda 14y ago
As a rule I never give anything to beggars in the neighborhood where my children live. Find another part of town to beg in. But I always give money to veterans.
pmorici 14y ago
For those that haven't been around long enough to remember this being posted here is an article by a guy who experimented with being homeless for a few days... http://www.nevblog.com/category/homeless-experiment/ http://www.nevblog.com/category/homeless-experiment/
- cpeterso 14y ago
  A similar "homeless experiment" is documented in Adam Shepard's book "Scratch Beginnings: Me, $25, and the Search for the American Dream." After graduating from college, he moved to Charleston, South Carolina with just $25 and a sleeping bag. He had the systemic advantages of being an educated, white male, but he created a back story about leaving a broken home and did not use any particular skills or contacts from his education. He started in a homeless shelter and worked as a day laborer. After 10 months, he had an apartment, bought a pickup truck, and saved $5000. His story is just one anecdote, but it is an interesting one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scratch_Beginnings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scratch_Beginnings
jmspring 14y ago
I won't speak to specifics of my interactions with homelessness, the unfortunate interface of drugs, gangs, homeless services, and criminals in Santa Cruz is f'd up right now. Recent other events are exacerbating my feelings on that even more. So, I will focus on a positive example of charity and goodwill. Ryan Hupfer (@hup) of iSocket has been blogging about his interactions with an individual named Mo in the city. It has been an amazing read. Hup's blog is at http://ryanhupfer.com/ http://ryanhupfer.com/ Stories of Mo are interleaved with other entries.
trotsky 14y ago
I don't know if that was the right thing to do, but I did it. Maybe I'm a sucker. I think spending time doubting yourself for performing one of the most basic acts of human kindness is way over thinking things. It only reduces the likely hood you'll do it again, and i think you'd agree the tenderloin is not suffering due to an over-abundance of kindness. It's hard for me to be sure exactly what negative result you're worried you could have caused. I guess it's probably that by feeding him you're encouraging him to rely on others instead of resolving to seek self sufficiency. By the numbers that's vanishingly improbable - the vast majority of the seriously down and out homeless are suffering from some kind of debilitating mental illness which often gets in the way of even being able to obtain basic social services. You don't have to help everybody or anybody and however you do help you could have always done more. You can't get wrapped up in that, you did good full stop.
jurassic 14y ago
A man outside the Central Square McDonald's in Cambridge begged me for something to eat once. I brought him out a cheeseburger on my way out and he wept with joy. Some people really are hungry.
INTPenis 14y ago
I also heard you have tent cities in the USA. Seriously guys, stop fighting brown people and start feeding your own people. / Your allies in europe =/
- drstewart 14y ago
  Well we need practice since you guys are starting up your Nazi parties again. / Your allies in the US =/
  - INTPenis 14y ago
    I know we're being half ironic and all but I just can't let this one slip. We're starting up nazi parties? Really? That's what you're going to go with? We also started the Pirate parties, and the fact that we're starting any sustainable party at all besides the two primary ones should be amazing to you. :D / Sincerely, Europe.
tapatio 14y ago
Try going to Ocean Beach or Santa Monica, same thing there. I think helping out with food is better than with money. As a side note, I recall a National Geographics photographer that traveled the world taking pictures ended up killing himself because what he saw made him very depressed.
jaggederest 14y ago
Knew a guy in my hometown who drove a BMW every day to the corner where he begged for change. At the time, he made more than I did. On a completely separate note: You can't help homeless people by subsidizing and enabling homelessness as a lifestyle. There is enough housing to go around, we just allocate it more efficiently than effectively.
nopassrecover 14y ago
From a non-American perspective, the Tenderloin and SF's poverty generally is baffling. As a caveat, I realise there are contributing factors to SF poverty (homeless from other states) - this is more about the personal experience. I haven't traveled a lot (~18 countries) but I've not encountered any poverty in a first-world city that is comparable to SF. Sure there are homeless in other cities (e.g. Rome's beggars) but not with the same confronting mix of desperation and mental health issues that I encountered in SF (I've been told NYC is worse, but I haven't been). What exaggerated this reaction was that SF was my first US exposure. From an outside perspective we're talking about a nation with the world's largest economy since the 20's that prides itself on being a bastion of success and freedom. The social reaction was likewise confusing. Avoiding the center of a modern city because law and order cannot be upheld was an unfamiliar concept to me, but the fact no one (police or civilian) seemed bothered that there was effectively a "no-go zone" in the middle of their city was even more surprising.
- drstewart 14y ago
  That's because it's a not a no-go zone. Maybe if you are extremely sheltered, which it sounds like you may be?
  - bodyfour 14y ago
    I would definitely tell someone just visiting SF (especially from a foreign country) that the TL is a "no-go". I've been there many times, but it's not the kind of place I'd want to be lost and disoriented.
  - nopassrecover 14y ago
    Haha I definitely spent a lot of time in and around the TL. I meant more from the perspective of every local and police officer telling me "avoid the TL, don't even walk through there".
cpeterso 14y ago
I feel bad too, but I instead give my money to local food banks. I know my money is actually feeding people. Plus, the food banks' economies of scale multiply the value of my donation; the SF Food Bank claims "every $1 you donate we'll distribute $6 worth of food".
joezhou 14y ago
Next time, perhaps talk to the guy?
andymoe 14y ago
I live in San Francisco too and I have to say it's OK to just buy the dude a sandwich if you feel bad or go ahead and help them up if they have fallen over instead of just walking by (I'm looking at you startup kids in south park and SOMA). And you know what, screw it, I even give them a five or a ten if I have some cash on me. It sucks being poor and it has to really suck being homeless, possibly drug addicted and maybe mentally ill and I may not be helping in the long run but you know what? They just care about the food or the a couple bucks for whatever and I care about not feeling like a tool walking by a destitute person and doing nothing for them when I know I can make their day a little better with money I'm just going to spend on overpriced coffee.
vegashacker 14y ago
I've been to a couple of these: http://www.projecthomelessconnect.com/ http://www.projecthomelessconnect.com/ They take place in San Francisco and seem pretty good. Next one is on March 20th.
willthelaw 14y ago
And that is why I am happy to be out of the twitterloin. It was generally deeply disturbing. I still do not know what to do. I desperately hope we can find something to do - there is so much money and innovation yet here, yet so many are in unbelievable shape.
Anil-Shrestha 14y ago
The homelessness has become a bad stigma to the beautiful city of San Francisco. I don't think there is any easy solution to this issue. Having lived there for 3 years, I, personally have seen strange sights around here. In this case however, I think you did the right thing.
brianbreslin 14y ago
As a regular visitor to SF, coming from Miami (whose homeless population has increased since 2008 real estate crash), what amazes me is that with such a crazy amount of wealth in the bay area and individuals with resources that no one tries to "solve" the homelessness and poverty issues in SF. You probably have more billionaires in the area than anywhere other than NYC. I know there is no easy solution, but it just strikes me as sad that such an in your face and wide spread issue is largely ignored.
norswap 14y ago
I like how it is just an observation, plain and simple, and not a pretext to announce some world-changing theory of poverty/homelessness.
- jbaudanza 14y ago
  Thank you!
milesf 14y ago
I have a friend who's a realtor who told me the story of a local homeless man in our town. "Toonie for some soup" he would ask people (I live in Canada, a Toonie is a $2.00 coin). He was always polite, and made regular appearances all around town for years. One day this homeless guy came to visit my realtor friend. "I'd like to buy a house" he said. After years of asking for Toonies, he managed to amass $84,000.00 My friend sold him a mobile home just outside of town.
- petekp 14y ago
  $84,000 in Toonies: • is 42,000 coins • would weigh 648lbs / 294 kilos • at a rate of 10 a day, would take ~11.5 years to amass /stats :)
xentronium 14y ago
If a homeless wanted to do some simple work (e.g. cleaning) in exchange for food and shelter would he be able to do so? Aren't there modern-day monks? Wouldn't people rather spend their life doing honest work with church than beg on the streets?
- JabavuAdams 14y ago
  > If a homeless wanted to do some simple work (e.g. cleaning) in exchange for food and shelter would he be able to do so? Probably, but why would you risk hiring them? The fact that they're homeless speaks to a lack of self-control. Even a perfectly healthy person who becomes homeless will get at least a bit messed up due to stress. > Aren't there modern-day monks? Wouldn't people rather spend their life doing honest work with church than beg on the streets? I've wondered this. We need secular monasteries, not just retreats for the wealthy. On the other hand, you can't really use your own motivations to understand why people are homeless. If they were thinking clearly and had a support network of friends / family that they weren't ashamed to reach out to, then they wouldn't be homeless.
dgmistry 14y ago
I'm working on a project with United Way in NYC that's addressing the data issues around food banks and shelters. We could use some additional tech help. It started after Sandy hit. All of the major charitable organizations would send resources to the areas impacted the hardest. This resulted in over servicing these areas and left about 30% of affected areas without any services at all. Also, people would be directed to food banks and shelters that were full, out of stock, closed for the day, or shut down. While other shelters and food banks remained underutilized. No one had the necessary information to direct these people to the right places. A hackathon yielded some interesting solutions for disaster recovery - one of which was a text message system (data services were unavailable for a while - coincidentally, many homeless people have phones, but not smart phones) to coordinate volunteers and service providers. We've begun to coordinate with many of the largest service providers, non-profits, local government agencies and corporate sponsors on this. There are so many needs of the homeless population that can be addressed by technology. We have no money to contribute, we're a struggling, over-worked, early stage startup, but we've found that even just a few hours a month makes a difference. Entrepreneurs and techs talk poorly of lawyers, but how many hours of pro-bono work do we perform each year? It's not all sexy work, but sometimes just cleaning some data one evening can impact thousands of people. If anyone would like to volunteer for this effort, or initiate a similar effort in their community, please reach out to me: community (at) 42stats.com
slosh 14y ago
I feel that we have enough smart people in this city to fix the problem. Something about the old homeless women breaks my heart the most.
jcr 14y ago
To the author, Jonathan Baudanza (jbaudanza), helping others doesn't make you a sucker, in fact, the opposite is true; helping others makes your life rich. Thank you for buying him a sandwich. And before the peanut gallery does it's usual thing, I've spent a few years as a volunteer for a non-profit dedicated to assisting the victims of fraud. I know better than most how many greedy and deceptive people are out there trying to take advantage of others. Even with all the deceptive malice I've seen, I still say that giving and helping makes life rich. I have no idea how to make a meaningful and lasting change for all of the homeless people, and yes, this makes me sad, both their situation, and my ineptitude. I can't help them all, but I try take solace in the small victories. Your act of kindness is one such victory. A hungry person got something to eat. You made a difference.
gtani 14y ago
I occasionally did the same. I would buy a couple big boxes of Cliff Bars at Costco and give away the flavors that I didn't like. I think if you're not going to help the Glide Memorial or St Anthony's or one of those, giving Cliff bars is tne next best thing (protein, B vitamins, solid sustenance)
caublestone 14y ago
I find it appalling that the apriori assumption to this conversation is that all homeless people are suffering on accident. Many homeless suffer from mental illness and drug addiction. These are problems that transcend being homeless and should be looked at carefully. However, I spoke with a few homeless in the Tenderloin (where I live) and the common amswer to the question "Why do you live here?" is "It feels safe. It feels like home" I guess I'm just asking people in this discussion to stop and talk with homeless people sometime. As many people that have gone through depression know, beinf acknowledged is one of the most important feelings when you believe you have been sequestered to a lower level.
entelarust 14y ago
In seattle we have a ton of missions and shelters in the downtown area. Most have a one night limit, or a weekly one night limit. But Seattle is also very walkable and there is enough shelters to round-robin and have somewhere to stay/get a meal every night of the week. We also had a downtown "free ride" with our bus system which let you take the bus within the downtown area free of charge to promote downtown living/working. But this ended up being dominated with loitering homeless. Luckily, they finally got rid of this last summer.
- stephengillie 14y ago
  Seattle also has 6 or 8 tent cities, each literally about 200 people camping in a church parking lot or city park for a 2-week span. This part of the planet is mild enough to support human life with a minimum of shelter. Areas with this attribute will always have humans trying to survive on fewer resources than average.
wavesounds 14y ago
Got my bike stolen today not to far from the Tenderloin, pretty bummed about it I loved that bike.
lucian1900 14y ago
My mother taught me that the only thing one can safely gift to strangers is food, (non-alcoholic) drink or clothes. At the time I didn't dwell on the advice too much, but it makes sense to me now.
amorphid 14y ago
A few years ago I learned a lot about trying to help homeless people with money, food, housing, and employment. Here's a blog post which details my experience of trying to help two random people from the streets of San Francisco: http://captainrecruiter.blogspot.com/2010/10/cathy-and-lance.html http://captainrecruiter.blogspot.com/2010/10/cathy-and-lance...
gadders 14y ago
As an aside, one thing I noticed recently on my walk from London Bridge Station to my office is that when it snows or is very cold, I see more beggars. It's almost like (gasp!) they come out especially in the cold weather as they can expect more money from begging.
janineyoong 14y ago
I loved going to the Tenderloin to eat good Vietnamese until I was almost-mugged a few months ago: http://janineyoong.com/post/34007583330/invincible http://janineyoong.com/post/34007583330/invincible It's sad, but I can't quite look at a homeless person on a quiet street anymore without the impulse to walk faster.

160 points by jbaudanza 14y ago

nose 14y ago

I think http://currywithoutworry.org http://currywithoutworry.org is an excellent solution to the problem. I think it makes a huge difference in the community. People in need are able to interact, and help each other without worrying about dinner once a week.

deleted 14y ago

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akaru 14y ago

I've been homeless. No one in SF is hungry. In a span of a few blocks a person could eat for free 5 or 6 times a day. Money is used for drugs or McDonald's. My advice: don't give anyone money or food. If you want to help, give your time.

namank 14y ago
In a span of a few blocks a person could eat for free 5 or 6 times a day. Care to expand?
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  He's probably referring to the preponderance of foodbanks.
- akaru 14y ago
  Sure. I'm talking about "soup kitchens". They really are plentiful. I even know of one that only served vegetarian food, and always had a full loaf of bread you could take with you after your meal. There are four or five just in the TL. I found during my stint I would just walk from one to the other and sit for coffee and snack.
iamwil 14y ago
Is it because the homeless shelters provide food? Where do you get food from?
- akaru 14y ago
  Some shelters are associated with a parent (church etc.) that also provides food, but they're typically separate. Seriously, the only people who could possibly be hungry are invalids or children that can't get to the food banks. Any person that can walk around begging for change could easily walk a few blocks for a healthy hot meal. "Help, I'm hungry" is an outright lie---every time--plain and simple.
  - mct 14y ago
    I make a point of carrying a few Cliff Bars in my backpack, to offer to people who ask for money. Some people turn them down, but a number also happily accept them. There are no good solutions, but this is the best compromise I've come up with so far.
dsrguru 14y ago
As someone who hasn't spent much time in SF but plans to move there very soon and doesn't want to live off of ramen, I genuinely want to know: where does one get those free meals? Edit: namank and iamwill beat me to it.
- gee_totes 14y ago
  Most dumpsters/trash cans in big cities have tons of free food, you just have to keep your eyes open.
  - sebcat 14y ago
    A couple of years ago, a couple getting their food from trashcans around here got poisoned by the cooling agent you put in cars. They were found in their apt. a couple of weeks later. The hypothesis was that someone was tired of having them going through their trash. They were not homeless. A criminal investigation was made. It is used as a scenario in school, and that's how I know about it. The pictures were... "interesting". Not saying it's common, but if I ever have to get my food from trash cans I will make damned sure that it's at least properly sealed.
- akaru 14y ago
  I've had the thought a few times while going for broke on my startup. The food was totally fine, and the shelters generally safe, but, well, the clientele was not generally people you'd wish to associate with. Food, even healthy food, can be cheap if you're willing to spend a bit of time preparing. I'd cook a pot of beans before hitting up soup kitchens.
- glurgh 14y ago
  http://www.freeprintshop.org/download/eats_english.pdf http://www.freeprintshop.org/download/eats_english.pdf
- wavesounds 14y ago
  Honestly your going to have to wait in long lines with some of the worst smells you can possibly imagine.
thinker 14y ago
Just curious but by free are you referring to food shelters?
deleted 14y ago
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densone 14y ago

Damn, I hate subway.

bluepanda_ 14y ago
Lol.

clivestaples 14y ago

You did the right thing. Hunger pains suck.

eshvk 14y ago

That was heart wrenchingly sad, thank you for doing this. I live in the Haight and I see people shivering in the cold and realize how good my life is. I am never sure whether to help people or not. I have heard contradictory stories of trustafarians and the whole philosophy that giving people money doesn't help them. Ultimately, despite all the bustle of tech, it feels like we are letting down the poorest of the poor by not helping them someway or the other.

rdouble 14y ago
Haight is mostly scammers and trustafarians. Well... 'trustafarian' is the wrong word. The gutter punk type kids don't really have trust funds. When I lived there from 2006-2009, there was a very short african american guy who would pretend to be mentally retarded and everyone would give him money. However, he would totally be chillin' non-retardedly after hours at Escape from New York pizza and Milk Bar. Most of the homeless people in the Tenderloin are legitimately down and out.
- Osiris 14y ago
  I used to walk down Market street and pass guys sleeping at 12pm in a beat up sleeping bag with a garbage bag of stuff next to them. It's hard to believe those people are 'scammers'. But what do you do? Most have metal disabilities or other problems that prevent them from contributing back to society.
  - rdouble 14y ago
    Market street is a different scene than the Haight.

TheSisb2 14y ago

Moments of beauty, as I see them.

jianghong 14y ago

I usually try to help out and give the less fortunate the change in my pocket when I can, but this one instance really made me reluctant to continue giving. He was inside starbucks and was walking out the door while I was waiting for a chance to enter. He stopped me and told me his name was Marcus, he was really hungry and needed some money for food. I gave him what was in my pocket, about ~2 bucks. He took it, looked at me and said "That's it?". He scoffed and walked away. I know, I know, one person can't represent everyone. It just stung and comes to my mind whenever I think about giving.

CamperBob2 14y ago
I see a lot of people in this thread who don't seem to have heard that many, if not most, of these people are scammers. I also see a lot of people who don't seem to understand that you get more of what you subsidize, whether you want it or not. Just putting that out here.
- jrochkind1 14y ago
  What does it mean for a panhandler to be a 'scammer'? They're not really homeless at all, they actually live in a mansion in Beverly Hills with a two car garage, and manage to pay for it all by asking for change on the street all day pretending to be homeless?
  - kooshball 14y ago
    Panhandlers and the homeless are two totally different things. Of course one doesnt have to be homeless to panhandle. By scamming, the parent poster was probably referring to stuff like "hey can I get a few bucks for a bus ticket" or "hey can I get some money for gas". That's pretty much always a scam.
  - rdouble 14y ago
    It's more like a guy who has been living in a $400 rent controlled 2BD apartment on Fell since 1991. He charges his roommate $800 a month, then goes and scams people on Haight for pizza money, but mainly just for kicks.

benwerd 14y ago

Every so often, I'll buy someone a meal: Subway, or some noodles, or something like that. Or I'll give them $5 for the BART, or whatever. Absolutely no skin off my nose; a big deal for them. And every single time, the look of joy and surprise on their faces completely cuts through any cynicism I might have had about the interaction. I figure, every single person who's out there begging is in need. I wish there were better programs out there to help them, and I wish our community could help out. I sometimes wonder if the people selling Street Spirit could be selling a product that people actually want instead (even if it's just a magazine like the Big Issue). I don't know the answers, but it makes me sad, too.

walkon 14y ago
> I figure, every single person who's out there begging is in need. Then you've figured incorrectly. There are absolutely a high number of these people who are scamming. A major reason they persist and misdirect resources from those that are truly need, is because of those who blindly assume "every single person" is in need.

rosser 14y ago

This is just me, and my approach to the homeless or destitute, but if someone asks me for money, the answer is some form of no (if I even acknowledge the asker). Yeah, you tell me you're hungry or whatever, but I'm not going to risk participating in your next fix. If they ask me for food, however, it's always a yes, assuming I can do it right then (not late for something, have money or my card on me or whatever). You wouldn't believe how rarely that actually happens. I don't spend a lot of time in the Tenderloin — though I do pass through it fairly regularly — but actually being asked for food is pretty much the opposite of "unremarkable" in my experience.

enneff 14y ago
I tried to take this attitude a while ago, but after being abused and accused of mistrust too many times (the homeless aren't actually starving in Australia) I returned to ignoring such people. The worst was when a couple implored me to give them some money for accommodation, as they had been evicted. I said "Sure, let's go to a hotel right now and I'll check you in." They called me a bunch of expletives and stormed off. !
- kevincrane 14y ago
  Same. A homeless guy walked by an alley near my house once and asked for money for food. I walked inside and came out with a half-dozen cans of tuna for him, and he started swearing and saying he didn't want "that cat food". I just stared at him, said "I eat this stuff. If you don't want it, then nothing for you." The guy just flipped me off and walked away. Good deed averted.
  - wyclif 14y ago
    You did the right thing; that person was trying to score. I also offer them food only. If they don't accept it, it's usually because they are junkies and want someone to extend their habit.
wwweston 14y ago
I know someone who's been experimenting with the same rough idea, but trying to be a bit proactive about things by putting together small kits of food/water/stuff (granola bars, raisin packets, water bottles, gift cards for chain restaurants, socks, toiletries) and keeping a few in the car to just hand out when he gets asked. This is in LA, where you're usually in the car when you see unfamiliar people (down on their luck or not), so YMMV in places like SF where foot traffic is more the rule and you may not be habitually carrying lots of extra baggage. Carrying a Subway gift card specifically to give away might work out, though. Maybe pair it with the card of addresses for local help institutions (shelter, food, addiction treatment, mental health if we still have any of these) for extra mileage.

yankoff 14y ago

They sell you an opportunity to feel good about yourself.

chrisbumgardner 14y ago

Thanks for writing this. I work right by there, walk to work from my home, and know how you feel. As jaded as it can become on a daily basis, empathy is always a good thing in my opinion.

hy3lxs 14y ago

I don't know if you did the "right" thing, whatever the hell that means, but I think you did the humane thing.

bluepanda_ 14y ago

Nobody knows what circumstances lead these people to the kind of lives they have now, but if unlike most of us, they were just unfortunate, then you definitely did the right thing. I live in NYC, which doesn't lack homeless people either, and like you, I find myself saying no too many times. So sometimes, I just act on instinct and give away that Valducci's Original pizza slice or Boston Kreme Donut I have been craving all day, and it actually feels better than satisfying my hunger.

ricardobeat 14y ago

We get used to being asked for money and saying no, and there's always a good chance you're being conned, but at least you know you didn't let someone down. Giving out food instead of money is a much clearer-cut situation, though I've witnessed a dirty, homeless boy throw just-purchased food away - he wanted the money :/

ethikal 14y ago

I think all of us battle with those feelings. In this circumstance, what you did was the right thing. On one occasion, I was driving through on Market St towards Castro when I saw a disheveled younger man in his twenties with a sign "Don't want money. Just food." As I pulled up to a stoplight, I turned to my girlfriend and asked, "do we have anything?" And we did - two bagels and a croissant. We didn't mind going hungry because once we gave him the food, he did a giddy little dance... as if there were nothing else in the world that could've made him happier. That said, on a totally different circumstance, while eating outside at Union Sq I was approached by a bum who "just wanted food." After I got up from the table and asked him to lead the way to the "pizza place" he wanted to grab something from, he realized his bluff had been called and he walked away (he was hoping that I would be lazy and just give him some money). I guess this boils down to a bigger philosophical question, which is "am I doing the right thing, or am I getting taken advantage of?" My solution is to go the extra mile and assume the best of people. Just put the right checks in place so that you can also avoid getting taken advantage of.

twakefield 14y ago

I'm relatively new to San Francisco and to a newcomer, the contrast between neighborhoods is shocking. I came from New York so I was used to micro-neighborhoods but SF takes it to a different level. It seems that SF has decided to herd all of the criminal activity and destitute people into certain neighborhoods and just contain it versus solution based approaches. I have no idea if this is the actual strategy but it sure seems like it.

cpeterso 14y ago
You are correct. The SFPD effectively herds the "problem people" into the Tenderloin. Something like "Escape from New York."

chao- 14y ago

You can't help everyone you see, or even half the people you see, and still have the time and resources to help yourself. What's important is to know what you're comfortable with doing, why you're comfortable with it: Personally, I will buy or give food, but never give money. Sometimes, when asked for money, I will offer to walk with them to get them food instead. Sometimes I remember that I'm pinching pennies on damn-near everything, to have just one more month's rent, just one more week of food, and have that much longer for my company to succeed. So I shrug and tell them the truth: "Sorry, right now I don't have an income either." Sometimes "Zombie By The Cranberries By Andrew Jackson Jihad" starts playing in my head and I'm too lost in thought to prepare a response in advance. By the time we cross paths and they say something, I end up genuinely startled and its awkward for everyone. I also don't have a point to make. Like you, this kind of thing makes me feel bad, and I just need to vent about it for a moment. At least we both can be sure our sense of sympathy is functional.

Osiris 14y ago
I agree. If someone asks for food, you know that they are hungry (they can't turn around and sell the food for profit). However, if they ask for money, you don't really know what their needs are. My mother works at a seasonal food bank that provides meals in the winter and I think that's one of the best services we can provide for people that cannot provide for themselves. Food is also relatively less expensive than other aids, such as rent controlled housing.

phatmann 14y ago

I at one time carried around some peanut butter and jelly sandwiches which i offered to street people when asked for a handout. I got about a 50% acceptance rate and on the sandwiches. so, i think it's not all for drugs. If I missed a couple of paychecks, it could be me on the street end

kjackson2012 14y ago

At the Safeway where I live, there are nuns that stand outside with a grocery list of food they ask people to donate for them. I didn't know if they were really nuns so I asked the cashier, and they confirmed it, so it made it a lot easier for me to go ahead and donate food. They make food for the homeless and the donation goes straight into feeding these poor people so it's a lot better than giving food or money directly to the person, who will likely use it for drugs, etc.

jrochkind1 14y ago
I liked the sentence in original post, "Maybe it was because we had something in common: we both wanted a sandwich. Except that I was actually going to get one. I can have as many sandwiches from Subway as I want." Sometimes what I've got in common with a homeless panhandler is that we both want a beer. I use some portion of MY money for drugs (including beer), I don't see why it should bother me if a homeless person does too. Whether or not they're going to use it on beer, I know they're a lot less comfortable than me either way, and I'm not hardly going to miss the 50 cents or $1 I contribute.
- drewrv 14y ago
  My concern isn't that they'll use it for drugs or beer, my concern is that the beer/drugs are what made them homeless in the first place. Giving them money for this stuff is potentially making their problem worse.
- kalleboo 14y ago
  There's a difference when you're giving an addict drugs, it's not longer a nice gesture. Think of it like offering a drink to someone at AA - you're going to send them back into the dark hole.

mjallday 14y ago

Is SF atypical in the number of mentally unstable homeless people? I moved to the US a year ago and am still blown away by the shear number of drugged up or crazy people living in the middle of the city. I've seen plenty of homeless people on my travels around the world but usually they are poor, not mentally unstable (to my knowledge).

rdouble 14y ago
Yes.
eob 14y ago
Yes. It's shocking for Americans from other parts of the country as well.

djmdjm 14y ago

What's remarkable about this is how the poster finds these casual encounters with homelessness "unremarkable". No other western city that I have visited has the massive, in-your-face homelessness as SF. I don't know enough about the causes of this phenomenon in SF to suggest what can be done about it; I'm sure they are complex, multi-factorial and politically fraught, but the level of homelessness in SF and (almost) everyone's blase acceptance of it shocks me every time I visit.

unkleruckus 14y ago
I live in the Mission and work in Soma. I ride my bike under a stretch of 101 where there are usually several people sleeping. I am not sure if this is "accepted" or not but everyone seems to just ignore it completely.
- yannk 14y ago
  It pretty much describes every single spot under 101 in the city... 17th has become worse in the recent months/year
eob 14y ago
I have this reaction every time I visit a west coast city. So far, that includes San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle. I've always assumed it has something to do with the climate being more amenable to homelessness. But thinking about it now there must be some other political or structural reasons at play.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  Failed startup founders?
sbov 14y ago
Some cities in the US just make it illegal to be homeless. Problem solved.
- 14y ago

jameslevy 14y ago

I just gave a slice of chocolate cake to a homeless man on University Ave. in Palo Alto today. A man who has nothing except for a slice of fancy cake. Just a couple blocks from Palantir, where Facebook was a few years ago.

Torgo 14y ago
There used to be an old guy camping out behind a building, near where I worked. I started talking to him and offered to buy him food for which he was grateful. He never asked for money, he was happy to get a sandwich and a large bottle of water so he'd have something to take his numerous pills from the VA with. He told me, after I inquired more about him that he was a Vietnam vet among other things. I know this is a cliche, but it wasn't information he volunteered out of the blue. He was my dad's age and I believed him. The last time I saw him he shook my hand and thanked me. I remember his hands were enormous and the skin was hard like rock. I don't have a reason for sharing this other than your post reminded me of him.

irollboozers 14y ago

I don't know what it is, but posts like this make me feel like HN is waking up and realizing the world isn't just 'social networks for dogs', and that there are real social problems out there needing to be fixed. There is a trend happening. This post is powerful because it's recognition. The act was powerful because it was recognition, which then led to real action. If judging by recent posts on HN, hopefully posts like this lead to more action. I want to think that this will lead to more smart thinkers here spending time to use technology do some sort of action. Even if just like the author, people think it's just one drop in the bucket unsure of any real impact, at some point we might actually begin to fill this bucket. Eventually sandwiches will turn into code. We need more of this.

bitcartel 14y ago
I posted this a few months ago. Worth watching. VIDEO: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/social-issues/poor-kids/seras-story/ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/social-issues/poor-k... San Francisco is the most expensive place in America to find a home, but that doesn’t deter the 400,000 people coming each year to the Bay Area in search of a new home and a new life. Eleven-year-old Sera, her sister and her mother moved to San Francisco in 2009. But when the economy collapsed, her mother lost her job and the family now survives on her $600 monthly unemployment checks. After five months in a shelter and more than a year in transitional housing, the family has moved to a one-room rent-subsidized apartment in the Tenderloin — a neighborhood synonymous with drugs and violence — while they wait for subsidized housing to come through. But they are just one missed rental payment away from returning to the shelter.
- sdqali 14y ago
  Thanks for that link.
- SilasX 14y ago
  That came up on reddit too. Why are we paying insane prices to house these people in the most valuable real estate in the world, when you could help 10x as many by housing them in some place that actually affordable? It boggles the mind.

free652 14y ago

I don't give anyone money, but if a some poor soul asked for food I'd buy / give in a heartbeat. But never cash.

stephenhandley 14y ago

blog post

brnstz 14y ago

As others have said, in many cases the request for food is a bluff hoping for money. There is a guy in my Brooklyn neighborhood who stands on the corner every day asking everyone, "Hey, can I get $3 to get something to eat?" We call him $3 guy. In large cities, there is not a lack of food for the homeless. (Although, to be honest, maybe it's not so easy to get to the right place at the right time, if you are strung out.) I used to call the bluff, and have bought many sandwiches and slices of pizza (except for that guy begging in the pizza place who said he didn't like pizza [cash only, please]). At this point, I almost prefer giving out cigarettes. This is case of "give a man a fish / teach him to fish" on a grand scale. I'm far from an expert on homelessness, but I really like things like The Doe Fund: http://www.doe.org/ http://www.doe.org/ Getting people out of drug/alcohol/crime/convict-status-induced homelessness is not an easy task. Helping people get their shit together, finding a purpose, and getting a job they can do is exhausting, soul-crushing work. The people who do this work are saints. Buying a guy a sandwich is no big deal.

zoowar 14y ago

I say, "No, but thanks for asking"

mikebracco 14y ago

Sort of off topic but related... I wonder how the homeless will fair when we become a cash-less society. This may be far off but it's inevitable. While initially one might think the homeless will be worse off, I can imagine technology actually improving things. Imagine some sort of NFC chip or ID a homeless could obtain from a shelter that would allow someone to give money to them from their mobile phone...and then perhaps gamifying the goodwill (leaderboards based on city or social graph) for the donators.

Finbarr 14y ago
This is interesting. What if all homeless people in SF were issued a cash card. The balance of the card would be controlled remotely and it could be (de)activated at any time. People who want to help the homeless could pool money together and the funds could be put onto the cards at the point of need. Perhaps retailers would be able to request the balance on behalf of the purchaser somehow - phone, web, etc. If people stopped giving cash to homeless, a system such as this could restrict the flow of money to drug dealers and liquor stores.
- kalleboo 14y ago
  Food stamps?

stuntgoat 14y ago

I was shocked when I came from NY to SF. The streets are incredibly dirty and some of the homeless are in really bad shape. Someone posted this link on Twitter (I saw it here on HN a bit later), and I got some insight as to why this is the case. http://www.sfweekly.com/2009-12-16/news/the-worst-run-big-city-in-the-u-s/ http://www.sfweekly.com/2009-12-16/news/the-worst-run-big-ci...

ixacto 14y ago

I tried to give a homeless person information on DSHS where they would be able to recive $200 month in food benefits (WA) plus who knows how much in TANF (welfare), and got told to fuck off to my face. My pity for the homeless has diminished since then.

chrismaeda 14y ago

As a rule I never give anything to beggars in the neighborhood where my children live. Find another part of town to beg in. But I always give money to veterans.

pmorici 14y ago

For those that haven't been around long enough to remember this being posted here is an article by a guy who experimented with being homeless for a few days... http://www.nevblog.com/category/homeless-experiment/ http://www.nevblog.com/category/homeless-experiment/

cpeterso 14y ago
A similar "homeless experiment" is documented in Adam Shepard's book "Scratch Beginnings: Me, $25, and the Search for the American Dream." After graduating from college, he moved to Charleston, South Carolina with just $25 and a sleeping bag. He had the systemic advantages of being an educated, white male, but he created a back story about leaving a broken home and did not use any particular skills or contacts from his education. He started in a homeless shelter and worked as a day laborer. After 10 months, he had an apartment, bought a pickup truck, and saved $5000. His story is just one anecdote, but it is an interesting one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scratch_Beginnings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scratch_Beginnings

jmspring 14y ago

I won't speak to specifics of my interactions with homelessness, the unfortunate interface of drugs, gangs, homeless services, and criminals in Santa Cruz is f'd up right now. Recent other events are exacerbating my feelings on that even more. So, I will focus on a positive example of charity and goodwill. Ryan Hupfer (@hup) of iSocket has been blogging about his interactions with an individual named Mo in the city. It has been an amazing read. Hup's blog is at http://ryanhupfer.com/ http://ryanhupfer.com/ Stories of Mo are interleaved with other entries.

trotsky 14y ago

I don't know if that was the right thing to do, but I did it. Maybe I'm a sucker. I think spending time doubting yourself for performing one of the most basic acts of human kindness is way over thinking things. It only reduces the likely hood you'll do it again, and i think you'd agree the tenderloin is not suffering due to an over-abundance of kindness. It's hard for me to be sure exactly what negative result you're worried you could have caused. I guess it's probably that by feeding him you're encouraging him to rely on others instead of resolving to seek self sufficiency. By the numbers that's vanishingly improbable - the vast majority of the seriously down and out homeless are suffering from some kind of debilitating mental illness which often gets in the way of even being able to obtain basic social services. You don't have to help everybody or anybody and however you do help you could have always done more. You can't get wrapped up in that, you did good full stop.

jurassic 14y ago

A man outside the Central Square McDonald's in Cambridge begged me for something to eat once. I brought him out a cheeseburger on my way out and he wept with joy. Some people really are hungry.

INTPenis 14y ago

I also heard you have tent cities in the USA. Seriously guys, stop fighting brown people and start feeding your own people. / Your allies in europe =/

drstewart 14y ago
Well we need practice since you guys are starting up your Nazi parties again. / Your allies in the US =/
- INTPenis 14y ago
  I know we're being half ironic and all but I just can't let this one slip. We're starting up nazi parties? Really? That's what you're going to go with? We also started the Pirate parties, and the fact that we're starting any sustainable party at all besides the two primary ones should be amazing to you. :D / Sincerely, Europe.

tapatio 14y ago

Try going to Ocean Beach or Santa Monica, same thing there. I think helping out with food is better than with money. As a side note, I recall a National Geographics photographer that traveled the world taking pictures ended up killing himself because what he saw made him very depressed.

jaggederest 14y ago

Knew a guy in my hometown who drove a BMW every day to the corner where he begged for change. At the time, he made more than I did. On a completely separate note: You can't help homeless people by subsidizing and enabling homelessness as a lifestyle. There is enough housing to go around, we just allocate it more efficiently than effectively.

nopassrecover 14y ago

From a non-American perspective, the Tenderloin and SF's poverty generally is baffling. As a caveat, I realise there are contributing factors to SF poverty (homeless from other states) - this is more about the personal experience. I haven't traveled a lot (~18 countries) but I've not encountered any poverty in a first-world city that is comparable to SF. Sure there are homeless in other cities (e.g. Rome's beggars) but not with the same confronting mix of desperation and mental health issues that I encountered in SF (I've been told NYC is worse, but I haven't been). What exaggerated this reaction was that SF was my first US exposure. From an outside perspective we're talking about a nation with the world's largest economy since the 20's that prides itself on being a bastion of success and freedom. The social reaction was likewise confusing. Avoiding the center of a modern city because law and order cannot be upheld was an unfamiliar concept to me, but the fact no one (police or civilian) seemed bothered that there was effectively a "no-go zone" in the middle of their city was even more surprising.

drstewart 14y ago
That's because it's a not a no-go zone. Maybe if you are extremely sheltered, which it sounds like you may be?
- bodyfour 14y ago
  I would definitely tell someone just visiting SF (especially from a foreign country) that the TL is a "no-go". I've been there many times, but it's not the kind of place I'd want to be lost and disoriented.
- nopassrecover 14y ago
  Haha I definitely spent a lot of time in and around the TL. I meant more from the perspective of every local and police officer telling me "avoid the TL, don't even walk through there".

cpeterso 14y ago

I feel bad too, but I instead give my money to local food banks. I know my money is actually feeding people. Plus, the food banks' economies of scale multiply the value of my donation; the SF Food Bank claims "every $1 you donate we'll distribute $6 worth of food".

joezhou 14y ago

Next time, perhaps talk to the guy?

andymoe 14y ago

I live in San Francisco too and I have to say it's OK to just buy the dude a sandwich if you feel bad or go ahead and help them up if they have fallen over instead of just walking by (I'm looking at you startup kids in south park and SOMA). And you know what, screw it, I even give them a five or a ten if I have some cash on me. It sucks being poor and it has to really suck being homeless, possibly drug addicted and maybe mentally ill and I may not be helping in the long run but you know what? They just care about the food or the a couple bucks for whatever and I care about not feeling like a tool walking by a destitute person and doing nothing for them when I know I can make their day a little better with money I'm just going to spend on overpriced coffee.

vegashacker 14y ago

I've been to a couple of these: http://www.projecthomelessconnect.com/ http://www.projecthomelessconnect.com/ They take place in San Francisco and seem pretty good. Next one is on March 20th.

willthelaw 14y ago

And that is why I am happy to be out of the twitterloin. It was generally deeply disturbing. I still do not know what to do. I desperately hope we can find something to do - there is so much money and innovation yet here, yet so many are in unbelievable shape.

Anil-Shrestha 14y ago

The homelessness has become a bad stigma to the beautiful city of San Francisco. I don't think there is any easy solution to this issue. Having lived there for 3 years, I, personally have seen strange sights around here. In this case however, I think you did the right thing.

brianbreslin 14y ago

As a regular visitor to SF, coming from Miami (whose homeless population has increased since 2008 real estate crash), what amazes me is that with such a crazy amount of wealth in the bay area and individuals with resources that no one tries to "solve" the homelessness and poverty issues in SF. You probably have more billionaires in the area than anywhere other than NYC. I know there is no easy solution, but it just strikes me as sad that such an in your face and wide spread issue is largely ignored.

norswap 14y ago

I like how it is just an observation, plain and simple, and not a pretext to announce some world-changing theory of poverty/homelessness.

jbaudanza 14y ago
Thank you!

milesf 14y ago

I have a friend who's a realtor who told me the story of a local homeless man in our town. "Toonie for some soup" he would ask people (I live in Canada, a Toonie is a $2.00 coin). He was always polite, and made regular appearances all around town for years. One day this homeless guy came to visit my realtor friend. "I'd like to buy a house" he said. After years of asking for Toonies, he managed to amass $84,000.00 My friend sold him a mobile home just outside of town.

petekp 14y ago
$84,000 in Toonies: • is 42,000 coins • would weigh 648lbs / 294 kilos • at a rate of 10 a day, would take ~11.5 years to amass /stats :)

xentronium 14y ago

If a homeless wanted to do some simple work (e.g. cleaning) in exchange for food and shelter would he be able to do so? Aren't there modern-day monks? Wouldn't people rather spend their life doing honest work with church than beg on the streets?

JabavuAdams 14y ago
> If a homeless wanted to do some simple work (e.g. cleaning) in exchange for food and shelter would he be able to do so? Probably, but why would you risk hiring them? The fact that they're homeless speaks to a lack of self-control. Even a perfectly healthy person who becomes homeless will get at least a bit messed up due to stress. > Aren't there modern-day monks? Wouldn't people rather spend their life doing honest work with church than beg on the streets? I've wondered this. We need secular monasteries, not just retreats for the wealthy. On the other hand, you can't really use your own motivations to understand why people are homeless. If they were thinking clearly and had a support network of friends / family that they weren't ashamed to reach out to, then they wouldn't be homeless.

dgmistry 14y ago

I'm working on a project with United Way in NYC that's addressing the data issues around food banks and shelters. We could use some additional tech help. It started after Sandy hit. All of the major charitable organizations would send resources to the areas impacted the hardest. This resulted in over servicing these areas and left about 30% of affected areas without any services at all. Also, people would be directed to food banks and shelters that were full, out of stock, closed for the day, or shut down. While other shelters and food banks remained underutilized. No one had the necessary information to direct these people to the right places. A hackathon yielded some interesting solutions for disaster recovery - one of which was a text message system (data services were unavailable for a while - coincidentally, many homeless people have phones, but not smart phones) to coordinate volunteers and service providers. We've begun to coordinate with many of the largest service providers, non-profits, local government agencies and corporate sponsors on this. There are so many needs of the homeless population that can be addressed by technology. We have no money to contribute, we're a struggling, over-worked, early stage startup, but we've found that even just a few hours a month makes a difference. Entrepreneurs and techs talk poorly of lawyers, but how many hours of pro-bono work do we perform each year? It's not all sexy work, but sometimes just cleaning some data one evening can impact thousands of people. If anyone would like to volunteer for this effort, or initiate a similar effort in their community, please reach out to me: community (at) 42stats.com

slosh 14y ago

I feel that we have enough smart people in this city to fix the problem. Something about the old homeless women breaks my heart the most.

jcr 14y ago

To the author, Jonathan Baudanza (jbaudanza), helping others doesn't make you a sucker, in fact, the opposite is true; helping others makes your life rich. Thank you for buying him a sandwich. And before the peanut gallery does it's usual thing, I've spent a few years as a volunteer for a non-profit dedicated to assisting the victims of fraud. I know better than most how many greedy and deceptive people are out there trying to take advantage of others. Even with all the deceptive malice I've seen, I still say that giving and helping makes life rich. I have no idea how to make a meaningful and lasting change for all of the homeless people, and yes, this makes me sad, both their situation, and my ineptitude. I can't help them all, but I try take solace in the small victories. Your act of kindness is one such victory. A hungry person got something to eat. You made a difference.

gtani 14y ago

I occasionally did the same. I would buy a couple big boxes of Cliff Bars at Costco and give away the flavors that I didn't like. I think if you're not going to help the Glide Memorial or St Anthony's or one of those, giving Cliff bars is tne next best thing (protein, B vitamins, solid sustenance)

caublestone 14y ago

I find it appalling that the apriori assumption to this conversation is that all homeless people are suffering on accident. Many homeless suffer from mental illness and drug addiction. These are problems that transcend being homeless and should be looked at carefully. However, I spoke with a few homeless in the Tenderloin (where I live) and the common amswer to the question "Why do you live here?" is "It feels safe. It feels like home" I guess I'm just asking people in this discussion to stop and talk with homeless people sometime. As many people that have gone through depression know, beinf acknowledged is one of the most important feelings when you believe you have been sequestered to a lower level.

entelarust 14y ago

In seattle we have a ton of missions and shelters in the downtown area. Most have a one night limit, or a weekly one night limit. But Seattle is also very walkable and there is enough shelters to round-robin and have somewhere to stay/get a meal every night of the week. We also had a downtown "free ride" with our bus system which let you take the bus within the downtown area free of charge to promote downtown living/working. But this ended up being dominated with loitering homeless. Luckily, they finally got rid of this last summer.

stephengillie 14y ago
Seattle also has 6 or 8 tent cities, each literally about 200 people camping in a church parking lot or city park for a 2-week span. This part of the planet is mild enough to support human life with a minimum of shelter. Areas with this attribute will always have humans trying to survive on fewer resources than average.

wavesounds 14y ago

Got my bike stolen today not to far from the Tenderloin, pretty bummed about it I loved that bike.

lucian1900 14y ago

My mother taught me that the only thing one can safely gift to strangers is food, (non-alcoholic) drink or clothes. At the time I didn't dwell on the advice too much, but it makes sense to me now.

amorphid 14y ago

A few years ago I learned a lot about trying to help homeless people with money, food, housing, and employment. Here's a blog post which details my experience of trying to help two random people from the streets of San Francisco: http://captainrecruiter.blogspot.com/2010/10/cathy-and-lance.html http://captainrecruiter.blogspot.com/2010/10/cathy-and-lance...

gadders 14y ago

As an aside, one thing I noticed recently on my walk from London Bridge Station to my office is that when it snows or is very cold, I see more beggars. It's almost like (gasp!) they come out especially in the cold weather as they can expect more money from begging.

janineyoong 14y ago

I loved going to the Tenderloin to eat good Vietnamese until I was almost-mugged a few months ago: http://janineyoong.com/post/34007583330/invincible http://janineyoong.com/post/34007583330/invincible It's sad, but I can't quite look at a homeless person on a quiet street anymore without the impulse to walk faster.