11 ms·

Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

343 points by iamwil 14y ago

robertlaing 14y ago
I'm surprised he didn't mention his interview with the comedian Stewart Lee: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHC13MYcrR4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHC13MYcrR4
balsam 14y ago
here is a very personal essay the oscar winning director Ang Lee wrote about those 6 years in the desert (translated): http://whatshihsaid.com/2013/02/26/ang-lee-a-never-ending-dream/ http://whatshihsaid.com/2013/02/26/ang-lee-a-never-ending-dr...
- webwanderings 14y ago
  Awesome, thanks. These two articles are just amazing.
jblock 14y ago
It's an interesting perspective on the man in light of all the ruckus about his film and the bankruptcy of Rhythm & Hues (who did the Oscar-winning effects for the film and ultimately fired 250 people in the past month): http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2013/feb/26/ang-lee-visual-effects-life-of-pi http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2013/feb/26/ang-lee-visual-ef... He's got talent, that's for sure. I suspect much of the flak should be thrown at the industry rather than at the filmmakers.
MikeCapone 14y ago
Very inspiring, though this makes me think that we also have to worry about survivorship bias. How many people stuck to their guns, focused, worked really hard for years, and nothing ever happened for them (at least nothing close to their dreams)? Probably many, though I'm sure it's still the best way to maximize your chances of getting there; by giving up, you are assured of not making it; but even doing your best brings no certainty. That's why you have to love the journey, not just the destination.
- rlu 14y ago
  Yep, well put. I was thinking this too which sort of made it all the more 'tragic' - though perhaps that isn't a good word as this story isn't tragic...but it almost certainly could have been! Good for Ang Lee!
- sskates 14y ago
  How many people have worked on their own startup in the valley for 5+ years and had nothing come of it? Before I made the leap to working on a startup full time, I searched for a while for an example where 5 or more years resulted in complete failure but I couldn't find one. Not a single data point among hundreds that I read about/heard about anecdotally. I'm very curious, anyone care to share an example where they worked on their startup for 5+ years and it resulted in failure?
  - jcroll 14y ago
    Observational bias. The ones that failed you will be far more hard pressed to find 'data points'(dym information?) on.
    - sskates 14y ago
      Yes, I know there's a strong selection bias in who I hear about. That's why I'm extremely curious to find even one data point on the other side. If you have one, please share!
  - jyu 14y ago
    This has its own sets of biases. Working on a startup with nothing coming of it only works until you're tapped out. How many founders do you know would just remain broke when they run out of money vs doing the rational thing which is getting a job or whatever to get back to supporting life's basic necessities?
    - sskates 14y ago
      Ang Lee was, even after 5 years of failure. I have heard of quite a few people in other industries (namely entertainment and art) that just failed to make it and would have been better served having spent that time pursuing something else. I've never heard of an example in tech startups though. I would love to run a controlled experiment. Unfortunately we can't force people to do anything, so we never really can eliminate people's choices as a confounding variable. I can give you one data point from my own experience. We committed to creating a company for two years no matter what happened. After a year and a half, there's no question it was the right choice. If I had chosen to do something else like high frequency trading, programming at a large company, or grad school, the likely outcome would not be on the same level as where we're at now. Even our worst case scenario, selling for a talent acquisition, ends up ahead of those other options.
dm8 14y ago
“I sent in script after script. Most were turned down. Then there would be interest, I’d rewrite, hurry up, turn it in and wait weeks and weeks, just waiting. That was the toughest time for Jane and me. She didn’t know what a film career was like and neither did I.” Blimey me, that's some solid hustle. That too when you have young kid. Seriously inspiring. Time and again it has shown that determination can change fortunes. EDIT: I got # of kids wrong
- waterlesscloud 14y ago
  It's been said Hollywood is the only town where you can die of encouragement. I've known a number of people (including myself) who have had film projects with interest from some of the biggest names in town. But what counts isn't interest, or someone thinking it's great, but someone signing some checks. And that can be incredibly elusive. Even then, the results aren't always satisfying. There are some screenwriters who have sold scripts for some of the largest amount on record who refuse to watch the movies that eventually resulted. I've read the average time from start to a produced film for a screenwriter is 7 years. And during those 7 years, you don't know if you're going to be a success or if you're just delusional. Having been around the edges of the business for a good while now, I believe people who say the existence of each and every film is a miracle. It's a crazy business.
  - dm8 14y ago
    Thanks, that was really helpful. How different is it from a startup then? There are edge-cases like YouTubes and Instagrams of the world. But in general it is 3-5 years at minimum where you know whether your startup is going to be successful or not.
    - waterlesscloud 14y ago
      Probably not all that different as a trial of self-belief, though the money for screenwriting is a lot lower until you finally "break in". You might make some money along the way if you option a script, but probably not more than a few thousand or so.
- 14y ago
mladenkovacevic 14y ago
It takes an inhuman amount of confidence or blind faith to convince yourself that you are good enough to make it in the film industry. To hold that belief for 6 years, while seemingly spinning your tires and growing your family is just something else. Ang Lee is something else too, though. After seeing Eat Drink Man Woman one evening, he instantly became one of my favorite directors. As a former film school graduate myself, I must admit I took the other route and settled for a safe, but rather mindless career in marketing. At 31 I think I still have some fight in me, but alas not everyone is Ang Lee.
- colmvp 14y ago
  I really respect Asian men who try and make it in Hollywood because its an upill battle.
  - obstacle1 14y ago
    Yes, all those fat/average-looking white men stealing their roles.
  - joonix 14y ago
    What's really impressive is that he wasn't relegated to Asian or Asian-influenced films. He broke out with Sense and Sensibility, of all things.
- redschell 14y ago
  Geez, you're only a year older than he was at the start of his Herculean effort. Get writing!
thejerz 14y ago
I knew Taylor Swift growing up. Like Ang Lee, for around 6 to 8 years Taylor acted in musicals, sang at festivals, entered competitions, and recorded demos. She was bad at first (sorry Taylor!), but she kept working at it. Every day, she was writing another lyric, or taking another guitar lesson, or auditioning for another play, or switching voice teachers. The reason I knew her was that I went to school with her (she was maybe in third grade when I was in 7th), I acted in plays with her, and I ran sound and make background tracks for her when she was 10 or so. I knew her mom and dad and brother too. I got to see her bildungsroman firsthand. Then came her "overnight" success. And the press talked about her like she appeared on planet earth overnight. She was a sensation. All at once, you couldn't walk outside your front door without hearing about Taylor Swift. It was surreal, having know the awkward girl from a few years earlier. But what no one talked about was the years she forewent hanging out with other girls in middle school, watching TV and doing her hair with girlfriends in high school... all of the stuff that normal kids do. Playing sports, going on dates with boys... all of this was sacrificed. For Taylor, and Ang Lee, great sacrifice was made. Success requires an obsession of sorts. You have to say, "I am going to accomplish this, come hell or high water." Failure is not an option... it's not even a word in the dictionary. There is only success. The buck has to stop with you; there's no room for blaming other people, making excuses, or avoiding harsh realities. Whatever it takes to be successful, whether that's hiring a speech coach, taking more classes at the university, learning etiquette, doing odd projects, finding a tutor, seeing a therapist, waking up at 6am to exercise... there is no limit. And that's just the point -- there is NO limit on what you have to be willing to undertake to achieve the goal. I've grappled with what I'm going to say for years, but I now acknowledge it as a truism: If you stick with it, you'll be successful. It doesn't matter where you come from, who your parents are, what you know, who you know, or how you look. All that is required is a choice -- a commitment to excellence. Therefore, there's only one rule in making it to the top: don't quit.
- colmvp 14y ago
  I suppose that makes sense. So many of her songs are fuck you to ex boyfriends even in her 20s.
  - 14y ago
rdouble 14y ago
One thing I've always wondered is what film and TV writers do all day during their years of obscurity. It would be interesting to hear more details about their process during that time, but that part of the story is never told.
- waterlesscloud 14y ago
  Most of them work some sort of crappy day job. I know one guy that the day he finalized a script sale for millions of dollars was working as a temp and borrowing money. The ones that succeed go home after that crappy job and spend hours writing. The ones that don't, don't.
  - redschell 14y ago
    I'm pretty sure pg has an essay about this using writing as an example. It goes something like "If you want to be a writer, you need to find time to write." Or something like that. I know for startup founders, and most other creative professionals, it's the same story: Find a way to work on the projects that matter to you. Maybe that means you get passed up for promotion at your current job, but you're not at your current job to climb the ladder anyway. Edit: Found it. http://www.paulgraham.com/love.html http://www.paulgraham.com/love.html
melling 14y ago
Here's the author trying to explain how long Ang Lee spent working towards success: "Imagine starting something now, this year, that you felt you were pretty good at, having won some student awards, devoting yourself to it full time…and then getting rejected over and over until 2019." This reminds me of the "Story of Longitude" where John Harrison spent decades of his life in search of his prize (the first "X-Prize"?), and everyone is betting against him. How could a self-educated clockmaker beat the best minds of the day? Anyway it's a great story, which I've read a couple of times. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitude_(book) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitude_(book) A few years ago when I was thinking up a name for my mobile "hobby start-up company", I took inspiration from Harrison and called my company h4labs (http://h4labs.com http://h4labs.com). His fourth clock (H4) won the prize. As a software developer, I image myself more as a craftsmen. I'm taking one idea and I'm going to refine it over several years. Hopefully, by my major forth version, I'll have something really worthwhile. [Edit] Btw, here's the book: http://www.amazon.com/Longitude-Genius-Greatest-Scientific-Problem/dp/080271529X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1362023756&sr=1-1&keywords=longitude>book http://www.amazon.com/Longitude-Genius-Greatest-Scientific-P...
- kamaal 14y ago
  Thanks for narrating the story of John Harrison. I would say that what he found was the GPS equivalent of his time.
orangethirty 14y ago
Success, like failure, is an event. Not the destination itself. My work discipline is the same when I succeed as when I fail. I don't suddenly become smarter or dumber. Success after all is what happens when you have a well-oiled system working for you.
mooreds 14y ago
What I think is fascinating is not Ang Lee's determination to last those 6 years, thought that is impressive. It is that his wife and family supported him for all those years (granted, it seems he was providing childcare). And believed in him, to the point of scolding him when he considered switching to a more immediately lucrative career. We should all be so generous to our partners.
- svdad 14y ago
  Yeah, that's awesome. What's so unusual about it to me is that when he was discouraged she didn't tell him to do something easier that would make him feel more immediately satisfied (by making money, providing for the family, etc.); she told him to keep doing what was making him unhappy in the short term. I think that takes a damn strong relationship.
- zhemao 14y ago
  I find that to be the most heartwarming part of his entire tale. The fact that his wife encouraged him to stick with his career aspirations even when he was ready to give up, and even when it was not in their family's short-term financial interest, shows the depth of her love for him.
danso 14y ago
> It got so discouraging that Lee reportedly contemplated learning computer science so he could find a job during this time, but was scolded by his wife when she found out, telling him to keep his focus. Tragic...we came so close to having Ang Lee be a programmer! I guess it's a small consolation that he's one of my favorite directors ever.
fludlight 14y ago
Is White Plains the Palo Alto of the Northeast? There seem to be a disproportionate amount of intelligent people doing new and exciting things from that town. Edit: spelling
- patmcguire 14y ago
  It's the seat of Westchester county, which has a million people in small cities jammed next to each other. I think a lot of that gets rounded to White Plains rather than explaining the geography. Also, it's rich, which doesn't guarantee but definitely helps with success.
waterlesscloud 14y ago
Screenwriter Terry Rossio (Aladdin, Shrek, Pirates Of The Caribbean series) has a long running website on screenwriting. His site reminds me a lot of PG, actually, since he has a lot of essays thinking about the concepts behind the movie business. He's talked there before about the time he spent preparing to become a screenwriter. His initial plan was to take 10 years to learn the craft. http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/forulttrs/lt18.That.Big.Break.html http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/forulttrs/lt18.That.Big.Bre... "Since Ted and I were going to be working and studying screenwriting for ten years, that took some of the pressure off. It doesn't make sense to kick yourself after failing at something for four years, when the path you're on is designed to take ten. This allowed a period of time to undertake an analysis and exploration of the business, the techniques, the craft, the history, etc. Step by step, from style to format to character to concept to theme, etc. In other words, we gave ourselves room to practice." He's also got a fantastic column on why you should give up at screenwriting. I think a lot of people here can apply it to startups. http://www.wordplayer.com/columns/wp34.Throw.in.the.Towel.html http://www.wordplayer.com/columns/wp34.Throw.in.the.Towel.ht... "That's what I'm really trying to do here (and you're smart enough to see it). And I'm not quitting. Oh, no, I'm not even warmed up. This is important, and I'm gonna give it my best shot. Because what's at stake here is pretty damn big... oh, just, let's say, your life. A wasted life, potentially, or at least wasting the best years of your life. Days, months, years of effort endlessly trying to do something that you'll never be able to do well. And how many sunsets will you miss before you finally give up? How many walks in the moonlight are forever gone? How much laughter with friends are you willing to sacrifice? How many times will the kids not get the attention they deserve because 'Daddy's trying to write something' that nobody wants to read? Oh. Gee. Did that one get to you a little? Feel a little twinge in the pit of your stomach? Good."
- elfydanman 14y ago
  Thanks for the Terry Rossio links. Good stuff - just ate two hours of my time.
antoniuschan99 14y ago
iamwill, this is a really awesome post. I shared it on FB and Tweeted it. I wanted to add one thing: My sister won the Miss Hong Kong Pageant a few years back and is one of the top celebrities in Asia. One thing I learned from her was that success is all about determination, focus, and a lot of work; talent is in fact overrated. For her, there have been ups (winning the pageant she was at the top), and downs (a year after winning the pageant, she was given the standard actress contract and was basically at the bottom), then ups again (she had to work her way up to the 'acting' totem pole). Success in my view is what you make of it as well. Dave Chappelle talked about it when his dad confronted him about wanting to be an entertainer. His response was if he could make a living comparable to a normal white collar job (I think he used the example of 50K a year), then he felt in his mind that he achieved success. It's probably why he went to Africa! (Unless you believe in the Oprah Conspiracy lol). DHH and the guys at 37signals have it right in my mind too. There is a huge difference being -10K in debt and having 10K in savings. Another huge difference between 10K in savings and having 250K in savings. However, there really isn't much difference between 1 Million and 10 Million and above (First Class vs. private jet... one Mazeratti vs. 5 Mazeratti's). For the majority of us, success is hitting that 250K mark. At that point, you don't need to worry about rent, food, bills... etc. Lastly, a piece of advice I learned from Derek Sivers was what do you want? He broke it down to Fame, Fortune, Freedom, excitement, quiet, comfort.. To some all they want is Fame. To others, all they want is the money. His advice was to choose only one and go for it. A nice little byproduct is that you might get the Fortune and end up getting the Freedom as well. But know what you want and set yourself to achieve that goal!
nannasin28 14y ago
you need to define 'success' before you can know you have achieved it. http://www.hqew.net http://www.hqew.net
dba7dba 14y ago
Forget the perseverance by Ang Lee. I have more respect for his wife: "It got so discouraging that Lee reportedly contemplated learning computer science so he could find a job during this time, but was scolded by his wife when she found out, telling him to keep his focus." I think it's an Asian saying where every great man has either a great mother or wife. How true it is.
jheriko 14y ago
Wait a minute, isn't 6 years of work to become an amazing success very quick and impressive? It takes most people a lot longer than 6 years to achieve a lot less... What I struggle to imagine is the distorted sense of self and entitlement required to have the opposite perspective, which seems to be the author's view - that 6 years is too long to work hard at something and become good at it???
enraged_camel 14y ago
I read the story. It is very touching. That said, I think stories like this send a very dangerous message. The reality of the matter is that for every person who stuck to their passion and ultimately "succeeded," there are thousands who lived the rest of their lives in obscurity and never "made it." When I was reading the story and Ang Le said he started taking computer science classes at the local college, I though, "that's great - he finally came to grips with reality ad went from being a daydreamer to being a harsh pragmatist." I was therefore dismayed when he then said he tore up his class schedule and went back to his passion. A lot of people glamorize his choice with things like "his dedication and commitment paid off" but what if t had not? Would we hear about Ang Le today? In hindsight his choice was the right one. But hindsight is 20/20. If you really want to maximize your chances of success in life, be flexible and ready to change course often.
- kintamanimatt 14y ago
  Persevering seems to be a very personal choice and there's no correct decision for everyone. It's easy to look at someone who hasn't achieved the level of success they desire and to write them off while encouraging them to take a safer, more conventional path. The trouble is that such a decision all but guarantees their ambition won't be realized. It seems that those who are just happy doing their thing are the ones most apt to persevering. They also seem like the ones who would feel more disappointed by giving up than by having not "made it" yet. At what point would you call it a day? Is there some point you can determine it's worth giving up? I'm curious to know how you'd make such a decision.
- muan 14y ago
  I think the biggest difference here is that he's not dreaming alone. His wife is extremely supportive on his career and was as committed as him in his pursue to be great in film. In the essay he wrote he tore up the schedule after his wife told him: "Don't forget your dreams." because she found out he'd been going to computer classes and got upset by that. He was not the only on in the pursue of the big dream, they both were, so he doesn't get to make the decision to give up on his own. It's a great, great fortune to have someone who stands by you in the long, frustrating journey, and it made all the differences.
Keyframe 14y ago
And yet, we have stuff like this: http://www.facebook.com/VfxSolidarityIntl http://www.facebook.com/VfxSolidarityIntl Specifically this: http://vfxsoldier.wordpress.com/2013/02/24/an-open-letter-to-ang-lee http://vfxsoldier.wordpress.com/2013/02/24/an-open-letter-to...
senthil_rajasek 14y ago
I cannot believe I wasted time reading this article. The picture of the tape and the business card sucked me in. I was hoping that the author will be sharing in detail the travails of Ang Lee during his early years and how he managed to pull through. Instead the author spins his own story of how Ang Lee stayed the course. The reality of how Ang Lee felt ( 1984 - 1990 ) and kept himself motivated or if he was even worried about "success" remains a mystery and I am still curious to know more about this wonderful director and his early years...
tomkit 14y ago
I loved Ang Lee's own words: http://whatshihsaid.com/2013/02/26/ang-lee-a-never-ending-dream/ http://whatshihsaid.com/2013/02/26/ang-lee-a-never-ending-dr... (which is a link within this article).
ashutoshm 14y ago
If you want an average successful life, it doesn’t take much planning. Just stay out of trouble, go to school, and apply for jobs you might like. But if you want something extraordinary, you have two paths: 1. Become the best at one specific thing. 2. Become very good (top 25%) at two or more things. -Scott Adams http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/07/career-advice.html http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/07/care...

343 points by iamwil 14y ago

I'm surprised he didn't mention his interview with the comedian Stewart Lee: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHC13MYcrR4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHC13MYcrR4

balsam 14y ago

here is a very personal essay the oscar winning director Ang Lee wrote about those 6 years in the desert (translated): http://whatshihsaid.com/2013/02/26/ang-lee-a-never-ending-dream/ http://whatshihsaid.com/2013/02/26/ang-lee-a-never-ending-dr...

webwanderings 14y ago
Awesome, thanks. These two articles are just amazing.

jblock 14y ago

It's an interesting perspective on the man in light of all the ruckus about his film and the bankruptcy of Rhythm & Hues (who did the Oscar-winning effects for the film and ultimately fired 250 people in the past month): http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2013/feb/26/ang-lee-visual-effects-life-of-pi http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2013/feb/26/ang-lee-visual-ef... He's got talent, that's for sure. I suspect much of the flak should be thrown at the industry rather than at the filmmakers.

MikeCapone 14y ago

Very inspiring, though this makes me think that we also have to worry about survivorship bias. How many people stuck to their guns, focused, worked really hard for years, and nothing ever happened for them (at least nothing close to their dreams)? Probably many, though I'm sure it's still the best way to maximize your chances of getting there; by giving up, you are assured of not making it; but even doing your best brings no certainty. That's why you have to love the journey, not just the destination.

rlu 14y ago
Yep, well put. I was thinking this too which sort of made it all the more 'tragic' - though perhaps that isn't a good word as this story isn't tragic...but it almost certainly could have been! Good for Ang Lee!
sskates 14y ago
How many people have worked on their own startup in the valley for 5+ years and had nothing come of it? Before I made the leap to working on a startup full time, I searched for a while for an example where 5 or more years resulted in complete failure but I couldn't find one. Not a single data point among hundreds that I read about/heard about anecdotally. I'm very curious, anyone care to share an example where they worked on their startup for 5+ years and it resulted in failure?
- jcroll 14y ago
  Observational bias. The ones that failed you will be far more hard pressed to find 'data points'(dym information?) on.
  - sskates 14y ago
    Yes, I know there's a strong selection bias in who I hear about. That's why I'm extremely curious to find even one data point on the other side. If you have one, please share!
- jyu 14y ago
  This has its own sets of biases. Working on a startup with nothing coming of it only works until you're tapped out. How many founders do you know would just remain broke when they run out of money vs doing the rational thing which is getting a job or whatever to get back to supporting life's basic necessities?
  - sskates 14y ago
    Ang Lee was, even after 5 years of failure. I have heard of quite a few people in other industries (namely entertainment and art) that just failed to make it and would have been better served having spent that time pursuing something else. I've never heard of an example in tech startups though. I would love to run a controlled experiment. Unfortunately we can't force people to do anything, so we never really can eliminate people's choices as a confounding variable. I can give you one data point from my own experience. We committed to creating a company for two years no matter what happened. After a year and a half, there's no question it was the right choice. If I had chosen to do something else like high frequency trading, programming at a large company, or grad school, the likely outcome would not be on the same level as where we're at now. Even our worst case scenario, selling for a talent acquisition, ends up ahead of those other options.

dm8 14y ago

“I sent in script after script. Most were turned down. Then there would be interest, I’d rewrite, hurry up, turn it in and wait weeks and weeks, just waiting. That was the toughest time for Jane and me. She didn’t know what a film career was like and neither did I.” Blimey me, that's some solid hustle. That too when you have young kid. Seriously inspiring. Time and again it has shown that determination can change fortunes. EDIT: I got # of kids wrong

waterlesscloud 14y ago
It's been said Hollywood is the only town where you can die of encouragement. I've known a number of people (including myself) who have had film projects with interest from some of the biggest names in town. But what counts isn't interest, or someone thinking it's great, but someone signing some checks. And that can be incredibly elusive. Even then, the results aren't always satisfying. There are some screenwriters who have sold scripts for some of the largest amount on record who refuse to watch the movies that eventually resulted. I've read the average time from start to a produced film for a screenwriter is 7 years. And during those 7 years, you don't know if you're going to be a success or if you're just delusional. Having been around the edges of the business for a good while now, I believe people who say the existence of each and every film is a miracle. It's a crazy business.
- dm8 14y ago
  Thanks, that was really helpful. How different is it from a startup then? There are edge-cases like YouTubes and Instagrams of the world. But in general it is 3-5 years at minimum where you know whether your startup is going to be successful or not.
  - waterlesscloud 14y ago
    Probably not all that different as a trial of self-belief, though the money for screenwriting is a lot lower until you finally "break in". You might make some money along the way if you option a script, but probably not more than a few thousand or so.
14y ago

mladenkovacevic 14y ago

It takes an inhuman amount of confidence or blind faith to convince yourself that you are good enough to make it in the film industry. To hold that belief for 6 years, while seemingly spinning your tires and growing your family is just something else. Ang Lee is something else too, though. After seeing Eat Drink Man Woman one evening, he instantly became one of my favorite directors. As a former film school graduate myself, I must admit I took the other route and settled for a safe, but rather mindless career in marketing. At 31 I think I still have some fight in me, but alas not everyone is Ang Lee.

colmvp 14y ago
I really respect Asian men who try and make it in Hollywood because its an upill battle.
- obstacle1 14y ago
  Yes, all those fat/average-looking white men stealing their roles.
- joonix 14y ago
  What's really impressive is that he wasn't relegated to Asian or Asian-influenced films. He broke out with Sense and Sensibility, of all things.
redschell 14y ago
Geez, you're only a year older than he was at the start of his Herculean effort. Get writing!

thejerz 14y ago

I knew Taylor Swift growing up. Like Ang Lee, for around 6 to 8 years Taylor acted in musicals, sang at festivals, entered competitions, and recorded demos. She was bad at first (sorry Taylor!), but she kept working at it. Every day, she was writing another lyric, or taking another guitar lesson, or auditioning for another play, or switching voice teachers. The reason I knew her was that I went to school with her (she was maybe in third grade when I was in 7th), I acted in plays with her, and I ran sound and make background tracks for her when she was 10 or so. I knew her mom and dad and brother too. I got to see her bildungsroman firsthand. Then came her "overnight" success. And the press talked about her like she appeared on planet earth overnight. She was a sensation. All at once, you couldn't walk outside your front door without hearing about Taylor Swift. It was surreal, having know the awkward girl from a few years earlier. But what no one talked about was the years she forewent hanging out with other girls in middle school, watching TV and doing her hair with girlfriends in high school... all of the stuff that normal kids do. Playing sports, going on dates with boys... all of this was sacrificed. For Taylor, and Ang Lee, great sacrifice was made. Success requires an obsession of sorts. You have to say, "I am going to accomplish this, come hell or high water." Failure is not an option... it's not even a word in the dictionary. There is only success. The buck has to stop with you; there's no room for blaming other people, making excuses, or avoiding harsh realities. Whatever it takes to be successful, whether that's hiring a speech coach, taking more classes at the university, learning etiquette, doing odd projects, finding a tutor, seeing a therapist, waking up at 6am to exercise... there is no limit. And that's just the point -- there is NO limit on what you have to be willing to undertake to achieve the goal. I've grappled with what I'm going to say for years, but I now acknowledge it as a truism: If you stick with it, you'll be successful. It doesn't matter where you come from, who your parents are, what you know, who you know, or how you look. All that is required is a choice -- a commitment to excellence. Therefore, there's only one rule in making it to the top: don't quit.

colmvp 14y ago
I suppose that makes sense. So many of her songs are fuck you to ex boyfriends even in her 20s.
- 14y ago

rdouble 14y ago

One thing I've always wondered is what film and TV writers do all day during their years of obscurity. It would be interesting to hear more details about their process during that time, but that part of the story is never told.

waterlesscloud 14y ago
Most of them work some sort of crappy day job. I know one guy that the day he finalized a script sale for millions of dollars was working as a temp and borrowing money. The ones that succeed go home after that crappy job and spend hours writing. The ones that don't, don't.
- redschell 14y ago
  I'm pretty sure pg has an essay about this using writing as an example. It goes something like "If you want to be a writer, you need to find time to write." Or something like that. I know for startup founders, and most other creative professionals, it's the same story: Find a way to work on the projects that matter to you. Maybe that means you get passed up for promotion at your current job, but you're not at your current job to climb the ladder anyway. Edit: Found it. http://www.paulgraham.com/love.html http://www.paulgraham.com/love.html

melling 14y ago

Here's the author trying to explain how long Ang Lee spent working towards success: "Imagine starting something now, this year, that you felt you were pretty good at, having won some student awards, devoting yourself to it full time…and then getting rejected over and over until 2019." This reminds me of the "Story of Longitude" where John Harrison spent decades of his life in search of his prize (the first "X-Prize"?), and everyone is betting against him. How could a self-educated clockmaker beat the best minds of the day? Anyway it's a great story, which I've read a couple of times. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitude_(book) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitude_(book) A few years ago when I was thinking up a name for my mobile "hobby start-up company", I took inspiration from Harrison and called my company h4labs (http://h4labs.com http://h4labs.com). His fourth clock (H4) won the prize. As a software developer, I image myself more as a craftsmen. I'm taking one idea and I'm going to refine it over several years. Hopefully, by my major forth version, I'll have something really worthwhile. [Edit] Btw, here's the book: http://www.amazon.com/Longitude-Genius-Greatest-Scientific-Problem/dp/080271529X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1362023756&sr=1-1&keywords=longitude>book http://www.amazon.com/Longitude-Genius-Greatest-Scientific-P...

kamaal 14y ago
Thanks for narrating the story of John Harrison. I would say that what he found was the GPS equivalent of his time.

orangethirty 14y ago

Success, like failure, is an event. Not the destination itself. My work discipline is the same when I succeed as when I fail. I don't suddenly become smarter or dumber. Success after all is what happens when you have a well-oiled system working for you.

mooreds 14y ago

What I think is fascinating is not Ang Lee's determination to last those 6 years, thought that is impressive. It is that his wife and family supported him for all those years (granted, it seems he was providing childcare). And believed in him, to the point of scolding him when he considered switching to a more immediately lucrative career. We should all be so generous to our partners.

svdad 14y ago
Yeah, that's awesome. What's so unusual about it to me is that when he was discouraged she didn't tell him to do something easier that would make him feel more immediately satisfied (by making money, providing for the family, etc.); she told him to keep doing what was making him unhappy in the short term. I think that takes a damn strong relationship.
zhemao 14y ago
I find that to be the most heartwarming part of his entire tale. The fact that his wife encouraged him to stick with his career aspirations even when he was ready to give up, and even when it was not in their family's short-term financial interest, shows the depth of her love for him.

danso 14y ago

> It got so discouraging that Lee reportedly contemplated learning computer science so he could find a job during this time, but was scolded by his wife when she found out, telling him to keep his focus. Tragic...we came so close to having Ang Lee be a programmer! I guess it's a small consolation that he's one of my favorite directors ever.

fludlight 14y ago

Is White Plains the Palo Alto of the Northeast? There seem to be a disproportionate amount of intelligent people doing new and exciting things from that town. Edit: spelling

patmcguire 14y ago
It's the seat of Westchester county, which has a million people in small cities jammed next to each other. I think a lot of that gets rounded to White Plains rather than explaining the geography. Also, it's rich, which doesn't guarantee but definitely helps with success.

waterlesscloud 14y ago

Screenwriter Terry Rossio (Aladdin, Shrek, Pirates Of The Caribbean series) has a long running website on screenwriting. His site reminds me a lot of PG, actually, since he has a lot of essays thinking about the concepts behind the movie business. He's talked there before about the time he spent preparing to become a screenwriter. His initial plan was to take 10 years to learn the craft. http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/forulttrs/lt18.That.Big.Break.html http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/forulttrs/lt18.That.Big.Bre... "Since Ted and I were going to be working and studying screenwriting for ten years, that took some of the pressure off. It doesn't make sense to kick yourself after failing at something for four years, when the path you're on is designed to take ten. This allowed a period of time to undertake an analysis and exploration of the business, the techniques, the craft, the history, etc. Step by step, from style to format to character to concept to theme, etc. In other words, we gave ourselves room to practice." He's also got a fantastic column on why you should give up at screenwriting. I think a lot of people here can apply it to startups. http://www.wordplayer.com/columns/wp34.Throw.in.the.Towel.html http://www.wordplayer.com/columns/wp34.Throw.in.the.Towel.ht... "That's what I'm really trying to do here (and you're smart enough to see it). And I'm not quitting. Oh, no, I'm not even warmed up. This is important, and I'm gonna give it my best shot. Because what's at stake here is pretty damn big... oh, just, let's say, your life. A wasted life, potentially, or at least wasting the best years of your life. Days, months, years of effort endlessly trying to do something that you'll never be able to do well. And how many sunsets will you miss before you finally give up? How many walks in the moonlight are forever gone? How much laughter with friends are you willing to sacrifice? How many times will the kids not get the attention they deserve because 'Daddy's trying to write something' that nobody wants to read? Oh. Gee. Did that one get to you a little? Feel a little twinge in the pit of your stomach? Good."

elfydanman 14y ago
Thanks for the Terry Rossio links. Good stuff - just ate two hours of my time.

antoniuschan99 14y ago

iamwill, this is a really awesome post. I shared it on FB and Tweeted it. I wanted to add one thing: My sister won the Miss Hong Kong Pageant a few years back and is one of the top celebrities in Asia. One thing I learned from her was that success is all about determination, focus, and a lot of work; talent is in fact overrated. For her, there have been ups (winning the pageant she was at the top), and downs (a year after winning the pageant, she was given the standard actress contract and was basically at the bottom), then ups again (she had to work her way up to the 'acting' totem pole). Success in my view is what you make of it as well. Dave Chappelle talked about it when his dad confronted him about wanting to be an entertainer. His response was if he could make a living comparable to a normal white collar job (I think he used the example of 50K a year), then he felt in his mind that he achieved success. It's probably why he went to Africa! (Unless you believe in the Oprah Conspiracy lol). DHH and the guys at 37signals have it right in my mind too. There is a huge difference being -10K in debt and having 10K in savings. Another huge difference between 10K in savings and having 250K in savings. However, there really isn't much difference between 1 Million and 10 Million and above (First Class vs. private jet... one Mazeratti vs. 5 Mazeratti's). For the majority of us, success is hitting that 250K mark. At that point, you don't need to worry about rent, food, bills... etc. Lastly, a piece of advice I learned from Derek Sivers was what do you want? He broke it down to Fame, Fortune, Freedom, excitement, quiet, comfort.. To some all they want is Fame. To others, all they want is the money. His advice was to choose only one and go for it. A nice little byproduct is that you might get the Fortune and end up getting the Freedom as well. But know what you want and set yourself to achieve that goal!

nannasin28 14y ago

you need to define 'success' before you can know you have achieved it. http://www.hqew.net http://www.hqew.net

dba7dba 14y ago

Forget the perseverance by Ang Lee. I have more respect for his wife: "It got so discouraging that Lee reportedly contemplated learning computer science so he could find a job during this time, but was scolded by his wife when she found out, telling him to keep his focus." I think it's an Asian saying where every great man has either a great mother or wife. How true it is.

jheriko 14y ago

Wait a minute, isn't 6 years of work to become an amazing success very quick and impressive? It takes most people a lot longer than 6 years to achieve a lot less... What I struggle to imagine is the distorted sense of self and entitlement required to have the opposite perspective, which seems to be the author's view - that 6 years is too long to work hard at something and become good at it???

enraged_camel 14y ago

I read the story. It is very touching. That said, I think stories like this send a very dangerous message. The reality of the matter is that for every person who stuck to their passion and ultimately "succeeded," there are thousands who lived the rest of their lives in obscurity and never "made it." When I was reading the story and Ang Le said he started taking computer science classes at the local college, I though, "that's great - he finally came to grips with reality ad went from being a daydreamer to being a harsh pragmatist." I was therefore dismayed when he then said he tore up his class schedule and went back to his passion. A lot of people glamorize his choice with things like "his dedication and commitment paid off" but what if t had not? Would we hear about Ang Le today? In hindsight his choice was the right one. But hindsight is 20/20. If you really want to maximize your chances of success in life, be flexible and ready to change course often.

kintamanimatt 14y ago
Persevering seems to be a very personal choice and there's no correct decision for everyone. It's easy to look at someone who hasn't achieved the level of success they desire and to write them off while encouraging them to take a safer, more conventional path. The trouble is that such a decision all but guarantees their ambition won't be realized. It seems that those who are just happy doing their thing are the ones most apt to persevering. They also seem like the ones who would feel more disappointed by giving up than by having not "made it" yet. At what point would you call it a day? Is there some point you can determine it's worth giving up? I'm curious to know how you'd make such a decision.
muan 14y ago
I think the biggest difference here is that he's not dreaming alone. His wife is extremely supportive on his career and was as committed as him in his pursue to be great in film. In the essay he wrote he tore up the schedule after his wife told him: "Don't forget your dreams." because she found out he'd been going to computer classes and got upset by that. He was not the only on in the pursue of the big dream, they both were, so he doesn't get to make the decision to give up on his own. It's a great, great fortune to have someone who stands by you in the long, frustrating journey, and it made all the differences.

Keyframe 14y ago

And yet, we have stuff like this: http://www.facebook.com/VfxSolidarityIntl http://www.facebook.com/VfxSolidarityIntl Specifically this: http://vfxsoldier.wordpress.com/2013/02/24/an-open-letter-to-ang-lee http://vfxsoldier.wordpress.com/2013/02/24/an-open-letter-to...

senthil_rajasek 14y ago

I cannot believe I wasted time reading this article. The picture of the tape and the business card sucked me in. I was hoping that the author will be sharing in detail the travails of Ang Lee during his early years and how he managed to pull through. Instead the author spins his own story of how Ang Lee stayed the course. The reality of how Ang Lee felt ( 1984 - 1990 ) and kept himself motivated or if he was even worried about "success" remains a mystery and I am still curious to know more about this wonderful director and his early years...

tomkit 14y ago

I loved Ang Lee's own words: http://whatshihsaid.com/2013/02/26/ang-lee-a-never-ending-dream/ http://whatshihsaid.com/2013/02/26/ang-lee-a-never-ending-dr... (which is a link within this article).

ashutoshm 14y ago

If you want an average successful life, it doesn’t take much planning. Just stay out of trouble, go to school, and apply for jobs you might like. But if you want something extraordinary, you have two paths: 1. Become the best at one specific thing. 2. Become very good (top 25%) at two or more things. -Scott Adams http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/07/career-advice.html http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/07/care...