5 ms·

Why we love Twitter Bootstrap and why you should too

39 points by alanmeaney 14y ago

richo 14y ago
Aaaand they're down.
- alanmeaney 14y ago
  Sorry richo, trying to fix now :(
  - alanmeaney 14y ago
    Winding a 10 day old baby and keeping a site up while on the front page of Hacker News isn't easy. Can anyone help me keep it up?
    - aioprisan 14y ago
      what do you need? pm me
    - gsharma 14y ago
      Looks like Wordpress. If it is, use this http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wp-super-cache/ http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wp-super-cache/ Edit: Also would recommend using Cloudflare.
      - alanmeaney 14y ago
        Thanks, yes it's Wordpress. I've installed that and removed the couple of images which seems to be helping.
    - jswanson 14y ago
      If you don't care about comments, it's quick and easy to host it on S3.
bluetidepro 14y ago
Anyone have a mirror? Seems to be down for me.
wololo_ 14y ago
They're awesome. It's just that their JS gives me cancer.
- michaelbuckbee 14y ago
  Too many jQuery plugins?
joedev 14y ago
"Ignore advanced web developers complaining about ‘not another Bootstrap website’" I agree. It's your customers that matter. And unless you're building a product for advanced web developers, pleasing them should be no matter to you. I've shown Bootstrap sites to non-developers and the response is usually that the sites look nice. Never has it been "ug. boostrap?".
- aioprisan 14y ago
  or just install/customize a nice theme on top and you're set.
- michaelbuckbee 14y ago
  We run the resource page listed in the article [1] and as a result of that it is quite possible I've looked at more sites built with Bootstrap than even the creators. From this I've really found two things: One, I think there is some massive confirmation bias at work. If a site customizes Bootstrap and it looks nice nobody credits it as a 'Bootstrap Looking' site, so as a result it is only when the defaults are used that people really pick up on it. Second, the alternative to a site built with Bootstrap is typically not a beautiful custom designed front end, but a pretty rough looking unstyled, inconsistent mess. Bootstrap is the new baseline for what a website should look like, it should be customized, it can be improved but there is now zero excuse for it looking worse. 1 - http://www.bootstraphero.com/the-big-badass-list-of-twitter-bootstrap-resources http://www.bootstraphero.com/the-big-badass-list-of-twitter-...
  - alanmeaney 14y ago
    totally agree that it should be the baseline. I have signed up for your beta :)
  - MaysonL 14y ago
    Re: bootstraphero.com Ugh. Really. Hate the fonts (Mainly the bold condensed ones). Hate the color scheme(Yellow text on a grey-green background? Seriously? It actually looks reasonable with the colors inverted[cmd-option-control-8 on OSX]). Slow to load, at least the first time. And socialist realism posters have very bad connotations, no matter how hiply ironic you find them.
yesimahuman 14y ago
Obviously I love bootstrap otherwise I wouldn't be building Jetstrap. But really, bootstrap is an extremely solid framework, and you can do a ton of customizations to make it look completely non-default (for example, our designer built our company site in a day with bootstrap+jetstrap which looks completely customized: http://drifty.co/ http://drifty.co/). You will implement the same structures if you don't use it, so you might as well take advantage of the framework and invest in a nice custom design.
- webwanderings 14y ago
  I'm not a professional but wanted to look into bootstrap for a while. Your Jetstrap finally made me get on the bandwagon and I was able to look at the potential in a single day no less!. Thanks. I think it would be even better if you were to showcase some example websites on your landing page. I'd wish to see what others are building with Jetstrap.
  - yesimahuman 14y ago
    Sure, great idea. We are working on gallery/community stuff. Lots to do, very exciting :)
alxndr 14y ago
Did anyone else first see this http://i.imgur.com/kglXUKw.png http://i.imgur.com/kglXUKw.png or this http://i.imgur.com/KxRY9Vo.png http://i.imgur.com/KxRY9Vo.png and immediately laugh out loud like I did?
- alanmeaney 14y ago
  lol, glad you got a laugh :)
Zombieball 14y ago
Some great CDN hosted (for free) sources for twitter bootstrap files to help new users get going: http://hostedbootstrap.com/ http://hostedbootstrap.com/ http://www.bootstrapcdn.com http://www.bootstrapcdn.com http://cdnjs.com/ http://cdnjs.com/
trungonnews 14y ago
Can I use bootstrap without jQuery?
- camus 14y ago
  Yes, you can use just the CSS, but all the scripts are tied to jquery ,since they are jquery plugins. Regarding bootstrap , i'm a designer, and i dont mind people using it. The heck i used it myself. It doesnt turn server guys them into ergonomists nor usuability specialists , but they know that their code will render well on all the browsers with virtually no test. I prefer people using bootstrap sites to coders that try to come up with their own design and just cant... Now i design webapps and sites that need to stand out more than the basic bootstrap look but bootstrap can be a tool to work upon too. Of course there will be a bootstrap backlash like there is a jquery backlash from javascript "purists". But these purists tend to forget what was web development before jquery or before boostrap ...
  - trungonnews 14y ago
    Thanks. I'm using YUI in my app right now. Adding jQuery along with Bootstrap is a huge overhead for me.
exodust 14y ago
> "You are not a crusader for artistic and unique web design" Thanks for reminding me of what you have no business reminding me of. Yet another article telling me what I am, what I should and shouldn't do. The flip side is that HTML and CSS is not rocket science. It's rewarding and valuable to build your own sites. If your code is "untidy at best" I would recommend you find another job where you skills don't amount to "untidy". Good luck.
- alanmeaney 14y ago
  I love building sites too and I find it even more rewarding building on top of Bootstrap. While it's not rocket science some of us enjoy a little help. Don't take my word as gospel, it's just an opinion. I don't do this for a living yet but hopefully one day soon...
  - exodust 14y ago
    Fair enough. I guess I've read a few articles lately such as "stop using carousels", "do this, do that"... and your article tipped me over the edge! If you can make a living making websites with bootstrap, that's great. Many of your clients won't even know you copied and pasted, then spent the rest of the day playing Crysis. All these templates and frameworks however, should be tools in your shed that you choose to use or not depending on the build requirements. Relying on one tool is risky, and may prevent your skills improving in web dev in general.
deservingend 14y ago
What's always surprised me is people taking the compiled CSS and working directly off of that. I thought the whole point was that since it's LESS, you can change things up really easily.
- autoreverse 14y ago
  Because sometimes LESS is more (learning curve)
- dolphenstein 14y ago
  Easy until you try to upgrade.
  - lowboy 14y ago
    It makes the upgrade process easier if you stick to only making changes in their variables.less file[0], or even better creating a copy of it and including that instead in bootstrap.less. Heck, you can even just create your own top-level myproject.less file and copy over the includes you need using bootstrap.less[1] as a template. [0]: https://github.com/twitter/bootstrap/blob/master/less/variables.less https://github.com/twitter/bootstrap/blob/master/less/variab... [1]: https://github.com/twitter/bootstrap/blob/master/less/bootstrap.less https://github.com/twitter/bootstrap/blob/master/less/bootst...
    - deservingend 14y ago
      Just import bootstrap.less into your own project's main less file and go from there.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- lowboy 14y ago
  Agreed. Most of the time you end up with a smaller file as it's easier to comment out the various modules as you're going as opposed to downloading customized builds from the website as you work. Also, if Sass/Compass is more your cup of tea, there's a well-maintained port of Bootstrap[0]. [0]: https://github.com/jlong/sass-twitter-bootstrap https://github.com/jlong/sass-twitter-bootstrap
arvidjanson 14y ago
Not trying to be rude, but you might wanna take a second look at the frontpage of Task Messenger – not the greatest advert for Bootstrap :) http://i.imgur.com/7H0dGnI.png?1 http://i.imgur.com/7H0dGnI.png?1 Safari 6 on OSX by the way.

39 points by alanmeaney 14y ago

richo 14y ago

Aaaand they're down.

alanmeaney 14y ago
Sorry richo, trying to fix now :(
- alanmeaney 14y ago
  Winding a 10 day old baby and keeping a site up while on the front page of Hacker News isn't easy. Can anyone help me keep it up?
  - aioprisan 14y ago
    what do you need? pm me
  - gsharma 14y ago
    Looks like Wordpress. If it is, use this http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wp-super-cache/ http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wp-super-cache/ Edit: Also would recommend using Cloudflare.
    - alanmeaney 14y ago
      Thanks, yes it's Wordpress. I've installed that and removed the couple of images which seems to be helping.
  - jswanson 14y ago
    If you don't care about comments, it's quick and easy to host it on S3.

bluetidepro 14y ago

Anyone have a mirror? Seems to be down for me.

wololo_ 14y ago

They're awesome. It's just that their JS gives me cancer.

michaelbuckbee 14y ago
Too many jQuery plugins?

joedev 14y ago

"Ignore advanced web developers complaining about ‘not another Bootstrap website’" I agree. It's your customers that matter. And unless you're building a product for advanced web developers, pleasing them should be no matter to you. I've shown Bootstrap sites to non-developers and the response is usually that the sites look nice. Never has it been "ug. boostrap?".

aioprisan 14y ago
or just install/customize a nice theme on top and you're set.
michaelbuckbee 14y ago
We run the resource page listed in the article [1] and as a result of that it is quite possible I've looked at more sites built with Bootstrap than even the creators. From this I've really found two things: One, I think there is some massive confirmation bias at work. If a site customizes Bootstrap and it looks nice nobody credits it as a 'Bootstrap Looking' site, so as a result it is only when the defaults are used that people really pick up on it. Second, the alternative to a site built with Bootstrap is typically not a beautiful custom designed front end, but a pretty rough looking unstyled, inconsistent mess. Bootstrap is the new baseline for what a website should look like, it should be customized, it can be improved but there is now zero excuse for it looking worse. 1 - http://www.bootstraphero.com/the-big-badass-list-of-twitter-bootstrap-resources http://www.bootstraphero.com/the-big-badass-list-of-twitter-...
- alanmeaney 14y ago
  totally agree that it should be the baseline. I have signed up for your beta :)
- MaysonL 14y ago
  Re: bootstraphero.com Ugh. Really. Hate the fonts (Mainly the bold condensed ones). Hate the color scheme(Yellow text on a grey-green background? Seriously? It actually looks reasonable with the colors inverted[cmd-option-control-8 on OSX]). Slow to load, at least the first time. And socialist realism posters have very bad connotations, no matter how hiply ironic you find them.

yesimahuman 14y ago

Obviously I love bootstrap otherwise I wouldn't be building Jetstrap. But really, bootstrap is an extremely solid framework, and you can do a ton of customizations to make it look completely non-default (for example, our designer built our company site in a day with bootstrap+jetstrap which looks completely customized: http://drifty.co/ http://drifty.co/). You will implement the same structures if you don't use it, so you might as well take advantage of the framework and invest in a nice custom design.

webwanderings 14y ago
I'm not a professional but wanted to look into bootstrap for a while. Your Jetstrap finally made me get on the bandwagon and I was able to look at the potential in a single day no less!. Thanks. I think it would be even better if you were to showcase some example websites on your landing page. I'd wish to see what others are building with Jetstrap.
- yesimahuman 14y ago
  Sure, great idea. We are working on gallery/community stuff. Lots to do, very exciting :)

alxndr 14y ago

Did anyone else first see this http://i.imgur.com/kglXUKw.png http://i.imgur.com/kglXUKw.png or this http://i.imgur.com/KxRY9Vo.png http://i.imgur.com/KxRY9Vo.png and immediately laugh out loud like I did?

alanmeaney 14y ago
lol, glad you got a laugh :)

Zombieball 14y ago

Some great CDN hosted (for free) sources for twitter bootstrap files to help new users get going: http://hostedbootstrap.com/ http://hostedbootstrap.com/ http://www.bootstrapcdn.com http://www.bootstrapcdn.com http://cdnjs.com/ http://cdnjs.com/

trungonnews 14y ago

Can I use bootstrap without jQuery?

camus 14y ago
Yes, you can use just the CSS, but all the scripts are tied to jquery ,since they are jquery plugins. Regarding bootstrap , i'm a designer, and i dont mind people using it. The heck i used it myself. It doesnt turn server guys them into ergonomists nor usuability specialists , but they know that their code will render well on all the browsers with virtually no test. I prefer people using bootstrap sites to coders that try to come up with their own design and just cant... Now i design webapps and sites that need to stand out more than the basic bootstrap look but bootstrap can be a tool to work upon too. Of course there will be a bootstrap backlash like there is a jquery backlash from javascript "purists". But these purists tend to forget what was web development before jquery or before boostrap ...
- trungonnews 14y ago
  Thanks. I'm using YUI in my app right now. Adding jQuery along with Bootstrap is a huge overhead for me.

exodust 14y ago

> "You are not a crusader for artistic and unique web design" Thanks for reminding me of what you have no business reminding me of. Yet another article telling me what I am, what I should and shouldn't do. The flip side is that HTML and CSS is not rocket science. It's rewarding and valuable to build your own sites. If your code is "untidy at best" I would recommend you find another job where you skills don't amount to "untidy". Good luck.

alanmeaney 14y ago
I love building sites too and I find it even more rewarding building on top of Bootstrap. While it's not rocket science some of us enjoy a little help. Don't take my word as gospel, it's just an opinion. I don't do this for a living yet but hopefully one day soon...
- exodust 14y ago
  Fair enough. I guess I've read a few articles lately such as "stop using carousels", "do this, do that"... and your article tipped me over the edge! If you can make a living making websites with bootstrap, that's great. Many of your clients won't even know you copied and pasted, then spent the rest of the day playing Crysis. All these templates and frameworks however, should be tools in your shed that you choose to use or not depending on the build requirements. Relying on one tool is risky, and may prevent your skills improving in web dev in general.

deservingend 14y ago

What's always surprised me is people taking the compiled CSS and working directly off of that. I thought the whole point was that since it's LESS, you can change things up really easily.

autoreverse 14y ago
Because sometimes LESS is more (learning curve)
dolphenstein 14y ago
Easy until you try to upgrade.
- lowboy 14y ago
  It makes the upgrade process easier if you stick to only making changes in their variables.less file[0], or even better creating a copy of it and including that instead in bootstrap.less. Heck, you can even just create your own top-level myproject.less file and copy over the includes you need using bootstrap.less[1] as a template. [0]: https://github.com/twitter/bootstrap/blob/master/less/variables.less https://github.com/twitter/bootstrap/blob/master/less/variab... [1]: https://github.com/twitter/bootstrap/blob/master/less/bootstrap.less https://github.com/twitter/bootstrap/blob/master/less/bootst...
  - deservingend 14y ago
    Just import bootstrap.less into your own project's main less file and go from there.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
lowboy 14y ago
Agreed. Most of the time you end up with a smaller file as it's easier to comment out the various modules as you're going as opposed to downloading customized builds from the website as you work. Also, if Sass/Compass is more your cup of tea, there's a well-maintained port of Bootstrap[0]. [0]: https://github.com/jlong/sass-twitter-bootstrap https://github.com/jlong/sass-twitter-bootstrap

arvidjanson 14y ago

Not trying to be rude, but you might wanna take a second look at the frontpage of Task Messenger – not the greatest advert for Bootstrap :) http://i.imgur.com/7H0dGnI.png?1 http://i.imgur.com/7H0dGnI.png?1 Safari 6 on OSX by the way.