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Once you're not so desperate that you need to take any job that you can get, you start seeing all sorts of indicators like this. I once walked out of an intervi

Once you're not so desperate that you need to take any job that you can get, you start seeing all sorts of indicators like this. I once walked out of an interview when I found that I would have to take a drug test. I don't take any illegal drugs, but that was an indicator of the distrustful kind of environment I was getting into. Thanks but no thanks.

speeder 14y ago
Sometimes this is needed unfortunately. One of the companies my father owned, he one day went to see something at the police station, and saw open book of wanted criminals, and found half of his employees there, and all of them were in the same criminal group, while inside the company they behaved like if they did not knew each other until they met at the workplace... But probably I would refuse to take a drug test too. But sometimes companies are between a rock and a hard place.
- HarryHirsch 14y ago
  You find wanted criminals with drug testing? In a functional working environment, if someone shows up incapacitated, you would show him the door there and then. But in the dysfunctional environment that we are in, if someone shows up incapacitated and kills someone, the company can point to the drug test, claim that they have taken due care when hiring and are off the hook. This needs to stop.
  - bubbleRefuge 14y ago
    Had a boss that got drunk every single day at work. He didn't hide it too much. During sit down meetings in his office, I'd sometimes catch a glimpse of his garbage can which was brimming with empty Coors lite cans. In the evenings, he often offered me a beer and I occasionally accepted. Ironically, he was the most productive , brilliant engineer to cross my path. Management never showed him the door. Eventually, he checked himself into rehab and I think there was a happy ending.
    - illuminate 14y ago
      "Had a boss that got drunk every single day at work. He didn't hide it too much." Right, that's exactly the point, you don't need drug tests to find nonfunctional addicts.
    - illuminate 14y ago
      "Had a boss that got drunk every single day at work. He didn't hide it too much." Right, that's exactly the point, you don't need drug tests to find nonfunctional addicts.
    - illuminate 14y ago
      "Had a boss that got drunk every single day at work. He didn't hide it too much." Right, that's exactly the point, you don't need drug tests to find nonfunctional addicts.
- ajq5623 14y ago
  Sorry to be off topic but I couldn't stop thinking about Fight Club after reading your reply.
- MartinCron 14y ago
  I'm going to file your father's experience under "totally bizarre use case that belongs in a David Mamet film".
  - notaddicted 14y ago
    I have heard a similar story from an HR consultant, minus the whole "criminal" element. It far less likely at a public company but think of something like a call center or factory, a smallish business, ~30-100 employees, where the owner has hired managers running it. If someone devious gets in a position of hiring power they use favoritism and undisclosed relationships to build a fiefdom. It might not go as far as stealing money, but they could be creating extra jobs for their friends and fobbing the actual work off to underlings, basically just freeloading off the business. If the owner doesn't know the clique exists it could be hard to see the signs. I'm pretty far OT here WRT drug testing, but anyway a good HR department should be more than a cover-your-ass paperwork machine.
    - speeder 14y ago
      Yes, the business was a small factory, I think it was about 25 employees. My father distanced himself a bit from management at the time, since he is the tech guy (he invented all the machines that the factory manufactured), and management was happy to hire locals, so many employees were hired off the street (ie: random unemployed people that reached the door and asked to do blue collar job)
xradionut 14y ago
Think of the drug test as a responsibility test. If you aren't resposible enough to be clean, why should I hire you?
- chimeracoder 14y ago
  I assume you test for nicotine and alcohol use then, correct? If you aren't 'responsible' enough to quit smoking - since you know it's bad for your health - why should I hire you? Drug tests are counterproductive, because not only do they not dissuade drug use (empirically), but they push drug users towards drugs like cocaine, which are detectable in drug tests for only two days, instead of drugs like marijuana, which are detectable for several weeks. The only drug you can really test for effectively is marijuana, and I frankly couldn't care less whether an employee uses marijuana - medicinal or recreational - in his free time, just the same way I don't care whether he drinks alcohol or smokes cigarettes. Finally, it's nobody's business what an employee of mine chooses to do after work so long as it doesn't impact his work performance. If it does, that's reason enough to fire him right then and there, without any need for a drug test.
  - jff 14y ago
    Nicotine and alcohol are legal. An employee of, say, the federal government should not be partaking in illegal drugs. If a person with a security clearance is regularly doing cocaine, at least one person (his source) knows. He is now vulnerable to blackmail. This is why we have random drug tests--I've never been called for one, but I will not consume illegal drugs because I could well be called tomorrow. I'm also impressed by your assertion that employees will think, "Shit, I can't smoke weed, guess I better start doing coke!" It's like the whole "gateway drugs" thing, except he skips straight to the hard stuff because the gateway isn't available to him.
    - zem 14y ago
      some random tech company (which, let's face it, is where the majority of people reading this will be applying to) is not the federal government. there should be no legal burden on, say, amd to hire only people who do not use "illegal" drugs.

speeder 14y ago

Sometimes this is needed unfortunately. One of the companies my father owned, he one day went to see something at the police station, and saw open book of wanted criminals, and found half of his employees there, and all of them were in the same criminal group, while inside the company they behaved like if they did not knew each other until they met at the workplace... But probably I would refuse to take a drug test too. But sometimes companies are between a rock and a hard place.

HarryHirsch 14y ago
You find wanted criminals with drug testing? In a functional working environment, if someone shows up incapacitated, you would show him the door there and then. But in the dysfunctional environment that we are in, if someone shows up incapacitated and kills someone, the company can point to the drug test, claim that they have taken due care when hiring and are off the hook. This needs to stop.
- bubbleRefuge 14y ago
  Had a boss that got drunk every single day at work. He didn't hide it too much. During sit down meetings in his office, I'd sometimes catch a glimpse of his garbage can which was brimming with empty Coors lite cans. In the evenings, he often offered me a beer and I occasionally accepted. Ironically, he was the most productive , brilliant engineer to cross my path. Management never showed him the door. Eventually, he checked himself into rehab and I think there was a happy ending.
  - illuminate 14y ago
    "Had a boss that got drunk every single day at work. He didn't hide it too much." Right, that's exactly the point, you don't need drug tests to find nonfunctional addicts.
  - illuminate 14y ago
    "Had a boss that got drunk every single day at work. He didn't hide it too much." Right, that's exactly the point, you don't need drug tests to find nonfunctional addicts.
  - illuminate 14y ago
    "Had a boss that got drunk every single day at work. He didn't hide it too much." Right, that's exactly the point, you don't need drug tests to find nonfunctional addicts.
ajq5623 14y ago
Sorry to be off topic but I couldn't stop thinking about Fight Club after reading your reply.
MartinCron 14y ago
I'm going to file your father's experience under "totally bizarre use case that belongs in a David Mamet film".
- notaddicted 14y ago
  I have heard a similar story from an HR consultant, minus the whole "criminal" element. It far less likely at a public company but think of something like a call center or factory, a smallish business, ~30-100 employees, where the owner has hired managers running it. If someone devious gets in a position of hiring power they use favoritism and undisclosed relationships to build a fiefdom. It might not go as far as stealing money, but they could be creating extra jobs for their friends and fobbing the actual work off to underlings, basically just freeloading off the business. If the owner doesn't know the clique exists it could be hard to see the signs. I'm pretty far OT here WRT drug testing, but anyway a good HR department should be more than a cover-your-ass paperwork machine.
  - speeder 14y ago
    Yes, the business was a small factory, I think it was about 25 employees. My father distanced himself a bit from management at the time, since he is the tech guy (he invented all the machines that the factory manufactured), and management was happy to hire locals, so many employees were hired off the street (ie: random unemployed people that reached the door and asked to do blue collar job)

xradionut 14y ago

Think of the drug test as a responsibility test. If you aren't resposible enough to be clean, why should I hire you?

chimeracoder 14y ago
I assume you test for nicotine and alcohol use then, correct? If you aren't 'responsible' enough to quit smoking - since you know it's bad for your health - why should I hire you? Drug tests are counterproductive, because not only do they not dissuade drug use (empirically), but they push drug users towards drugs like cocaine, which are detectable in drug tests for only two days, instead of drugs like marijuana, which are detectable for several weeks. The only drug you can really test for effectively is marijuana, and I frankly couldn't care less whether an employee uses marijuana - medicinal or recreational - in his free time, just the same way I don't care whether he drinks alcohol or smokes cigarettes. Finally, it's nobody's business what an employee of mine chooses to do after work so long as it doesn't impact his work performance. If it does, that's reason enough to fire him right then and there, without any need for a drug test.
- jff 14y ago
  Nicotine and alcohol are legal. An employee of, say, the federal government should not be partaking in illegal drugs. If a person with a security clearance is regularly doing cocaine, at least one person (his source) knows. He is now vulnerable to blackmail. This is why we have random drug tests--I've never been called for one, but I will not consume illegal drugs because I could well be called tomorrow. I'm also impressed by your assertion that employees will think, "Shit, I can't smoke weed, guess I better start doing coke!" It's like the whole "gateway drugs" thing, except he skips straight to the hard stuff because the gateway isn't available to him.
  - zem 14y ago
    some random tech company (which, let's face it, is where the majority of people reading this will be applying to) is not the federal government. there should be no legal burden on, say, amd to hire only people who do not use "illegal" drugs.