5 ms·

Co-founder won't move to the valley if accepted by YC. What do I do?

• rms 19y ago
  You really want to find yourself another technical cofounder that is fully committed to the project.
  • wammin 19y ago
    Is anyone on here interested? Email me nate@wamily.com.
    • forgotmylastone 19y ago
      Do you even have ownership of the project at this point? Don't all these others have a claim to it? Are you prepared to buy them out and/or completely start from scratch?
      • wammin 19y ago
        I do not have complete ownership, no. Co-founder has an equal stake as currently, but we have a prearranged agreement where I will be entitled to more equity upon our first financing. I don't really want to throw them out ... they are good at what they do (just not doing enough, in my opinion). I don't think it would be a problem to come to an agreement to redistribute equity.
    • thomasptacek 19y ago
      Because I'd be hugely interested in working with a "cofounder" who broadcast his unhappiness with his previous team to a public forum as a vehicle to replace them. That guy sounds like a real rock star.
      • Sam_Odio 19y ago
        He is a rock star - and one of the most dedicated people I know. From what I've seen, he's more committed to this project than anyone else who's worked on it (including me). However the tone of your post doesn't surprise me - you probably wouldn't understand the difficult position he's in unless you've been there before.
        • wammin 19y ago
          Word. Thanks, Sam.
• pbnaidu 19y ago
  Sorry to hear that your team is not on the same page. I think the level of commitment from the other two co-founders is much less according to your description, I am not even sure you should give them co-founder status. Remember you're working full time on the project that means you're investing $x (your full time job's salary) every month as opposed to the other guys. From your description the other two guys seems to be playing safe, not risk takers (very much required ingredient for startups) I think you really need to find new team members who are committed, dedicated, and risk takers. As far as finding new team members, I think it would be nice to work with people who you know already to reduce time consumed building a new relationship. Otherwise, you got to work with people for some time to find workable team members. Best of luck
• breck 19y ago
  The truth is you can't succeed with that type of a team. Read PG's article "How Not to Die". A great quote is: "The number one thing not to do is other things. If you find yourself saying a sentence that ends with "but we're going to keep working on the startup," you are in big trouble. Bob's going to grad school, but we're going to keep working on the startup. We're moving back to Minnesota, but we're going to keep working on the startup. We're taking on some consulting projects, but we're going to keep working on the startup. You may as well just translate these to "we're giving up on the startup, but we're not willing to admit that to ourselves," because that's what it means most of the time." I've run into similar situations before. This is a serious problem and one you should deal with immediately, because it will only get worse. Have an honest, tough talk with your team. It sounds like you won't convince them to put it all on the line like you have, but at least you'll know and you can make an arrangement so that you're moving forward with the company and not having this looming over your head. If worse comes to worst, tell them you are going to move on because its sounds like you are pretty talented and there are many opportunities for someone like you. Good luck.
  • wammin 19y ago
    Yep, I agree with your advice and I also read PG's recent article that you referenced. Totally agree. I have talked with the team, and we seem to all understand that this is not going the way we want. I have made it clear that I will be looking for others to join in a "co-founder" capacity if I get the opportunity to go to YC this winter. They are reasonable people and good friends, so I don't think it will be a big problem to do a little equity restructuring if its in the best interest of the startup. My real question is not "am I screwed?" because I already know that. I'm asking "how can I fix this now?" or, in other words "please help me find a new co-founder and a chance to get into YC (or another good startuppy environment)."
    • nostrademons 19y ago
      We were in a similar situation in the last YC funding cycle. 5 founders, 3 were not willing to quit their day jobs or move to Boston for the SFP. It absolutely is a problem - the first thing PG shot back was "Too many uncommitted founders!", and we didn't get accepted (or even interviewed). It'll likely be a problem without YC too: you end up spending more time ensuring that everyone's on the same page than actually building the project. We sped up noticeably after we dropped from 5 founders to 2. I can't really help find a new cofounder (other than reiterate what others have said: ask around here, check cofoundr.com, etc.), but I can tell you what we did. We (my surviving cofounder and I) bought out the other 3 founders for $1000 apiece. In retrospect this was probably too high, given how quickly they accepted. But it was done mostly to preserve good relations and make sure nobody felt they were being cheated, and I think it succeeded in that. When our incorporation papers come through there will be a few agreements for them to sign to make sure we own the stuff they did before we bought them out.
• nreece 19y ago
  Before you, your cofounder and your team came together to work on the startup, did you "communicate" to your cofounder and/or team that you might/will consider moving to a different city if the need arises? Did you guys talk through any such possibility if the startup looks promising in the future? If not, then do you think its justifiable to only hold them accountable for not agreeing to move with you? Teams are made up of people, not ideas alone. They may have families and other responsibilities which might be more important to them. So if you think that they do not share your vision, then try and talk to each one of them individually and understand what's holding them back. And if its really not going to work out, then be polite and express them clearly that you care about the future of this startup a great deal, and you will have to find a team member who shares your vision. But be humble, and stay humble. Nobody likes a cranky selfish boss. Good luck!
  • bootload 19y ago
    "... did you "communicate" ..." Hmmm communicating. Sounds like your making a statement there. Why? "... Each person should just do what they need to without anyone telling them ... If that sounds like a recipe for chaos, think about a soccer team ... David Beckham if there were any language problems at Real Madrid, since the players were from about eight different countries. He said it was never an issue, because everyone was so good they never had to talk. They all just did the right thing. ..." It's "bleedin obvious" that at some stage you might have to move. So the requirement for communication bit could be an indication of co-founders (3) "Not determined enough" or (9) "Family to support" or (11) "Not ready for commitment". All reasons to 'not (not) start a startup' with them ~ http://www.paulgraham.com/notnot.html http://www.paulgraham.com/notnot.html
    • nreece 19y ago
      OMG! Here come The Commandments! Imo, a startup is a relationship, where you need communication - with your team, as with your customers.
      • bootload 19y ago
        " The Commandments! " I like that. Sure it's a relationship. But the type of relationship bw co-founders, team and customers is very different. If your co-founders, fellow hackers, the ones that should understand the implications of startups the most, balk at such a simple hurdle to start a startup. Communication is not the problem, commitment (or insert N other reasons is). A very different relationship (more communicative) exists bw staff who are not the core of the team at the start. It goes unsaid that the on-going relationship with the customers is paramount. But to misunderstand the idea that founders & co-founders should explicitly have to communicate such fundamental concepts as "we might have to move sometime to achieve 'Foo'" or "we might have to actually do 'bar' to get to the next hurdle is fundamentally different from communicating to hires or customers. BTW can you point http://www.feedity.com http://www.feedity.com to news.ycombinator?
• gersteni 19y ago
  Based on this info you need to cut ties with these people. Equity is for risk takers. If you are taking all of the risks, then you should get all of the equity. Now, if you have already shared the equity, then you are in a big bind.
• sama 19y ago
  You really need to drop this guy (#2)--I predict failure, near-failure, or serious regrets and much less than what could have been if you don't.
  • Number2 19y ago
    Please see my long-winded previous post further up in the thread but chronologically after this.
    • dhouston 19y ago
      sam's still right. all kinds of red flags -- "i'll give up my job, but only if things are going well", "i have 2hr/day to spend", resentment already building, etc. it's only gonna get worse. number2 -- that's fine that you have those priorities (family, steady job), but it seems like you're in denial about the situation. absentee (or remote + part-time, whatever) cofounders are not what early stage startups need. and even if you disagree, your potential investors (e.g. yc) won't. if being remote and working 2hrs a day was a viable strategy for a startup founder, don't you think there would be more success stories that fit that profile? :P that said, you can still come on board later after #1 gets things going.
• dpapathanasiou 19y ago
  I want so badly to be in the YC environment, working with smart people all around. It's been 10 months now of me hacking away alone in my condo ... getting very antsy. If I got accepted, I'd pack up right away and plan on a permanent move out west (It's always been a dream of mine to live out there). YC is not the only path to success, nor should you think that you absolutely need these two other people (especially if they won't go with you). If you really feel that way, you should just take the plunge and head out there, even if YC rejects you.
  • wammin 19y ago
    I just might do that. I'm sick of Atlanta anyway.
    • jsolson 19y ago
      You and me both... I'll miss Octane and Javamonkey, though.
• thomasptacek 19y ago
  You quit your job and put 10 months worth of effort into a product that succeeds or fails based on whether Paul Graham gives you $15,000? I know this is a YC forum and all, but the cargo culting here is creepy, which is too bad because if you weed through it there are obviously some smart people posting. Here's a tip: if you can solo jump start a fundable product, your consulting bill rate will "fund" you, YC style, in less than a month. Then, you can ignore what YC says, keep the talented developer (finding talent in this market is like finding weaponizable plutonium on the shelves at a Des Moines Wal-Mart), chuck the dead wood, and take yourself to market on your own terms.
  • Sam_Odio 19y ago
    You're right that $15,000 is easy to find. But what you don't realize is that hardly anyone here is applying to the YC program for the $15k... I saw more VCs at the last YC demo day than I have in my entire life. And, from talking to the YC founders, I'm not alone. I'm not claiming that high VC interest predicts success. However the number of VCs interested in your startup is a good proxy for the overall interest in your startup, since VCs want to invest in what's popular.
    • jdavid 19y ago
      I agree, 15k is something my parents will give us or money i could raise selling my 350z. The real victory is winning the prize, and the attention of VC you get.
      • thomasptacek 19y ago
        It seems like your odds of "winning" this contest are not great, and your odds of "converting" that win to an A round are also not great. I like the YC idea and have little more specifically to say about it than that, but if you're investing 10 full time months, the quality of your execution will dominate your chances, not Paul Graham's imprimatur.
• pg 19y ago
  YC isn't for every startup. Viaweb couldn't have done it in the winter; I couldn't have gotten Rtm and Trevor to move. Yet they were good cofounders to have. It's always a judgement call whether one's cofounders' inability to move is a sign of general lameness, or whether they're so good that they're worth having anyway. But it's that deeper question you need to answer. If your cofounders are lame, you should ditch them regardless; and if they're not, don't worry about YC, because good cofounders are worth more to a startup than we are.
  • wammin 19y ago
    Paul, thanks for the reply. I know that YC is not the end-all be-all, but I do think it would be a great way to increase our chance of success. I don't think my co-founder is lame at all. Actually he's a super smart guy, we have known each other for 7 years, and have started and sold one moderately successful startup together during college. What is frustrating that maybe you didn't understand before is that we're not working together now as it is (in two different cities ... at least a 2hr plane away). For my own saneness, team energy, and for the sake of teamwork, I thought that moving to YC would be a great opportunity for us to actually work in the same room together, and have support all around. I know that if that happens, we will do great things. btw ... I'm gonna apply anyway. So, you'll hear from me again soon.
  • brett 19y ago
    There is also the problem of otherwise talented and determined potential co-founders who are unready or unwilling to commit fully due to the inertia of their lives. I wouldn't describe them as "lame", but they can still be especially risky. They will likely be apt to entertain working on the startup which will be enticing, but you really don't want to get strung along. The sooner you can assess the likelihood they are capable of committing the better. My guess is that the best tactic in this case is to figure out way to convince them the startup is happening with or without them. Just like investors the best motivator is probably fear of missing out.
• rokhayakebe 19y ago
  Take it form a non-technical co-founder. Nate, your co-founder doesn't have to move. You can. It is even better this way. I am working on my startup and my co-founder is a good thousands miles away from me. He handles all technical aspects and I do the other stuff. I read and learn a lot of stuff, so we can communicate technically, but the truth is if I was close to him all I would do is waste his time. So move and do your technical thing, Let me stay where he is and do his thing. Communicate a lot though. And do not start to IM with people like us unless you want to take a break from coding. I only talk with my cofounder at the end of his day, that way I know I am not in his way anymore.
• Number2 19y ago
  Hello everyone, this is the infamous #2 here. Yes, I am a co-founder of a new Web 2.0 startup and do have the Hacker News RSS feed on my homepage. Airing our dirty laundry in a public forum wasn't my decision, but. . . I feel like I have to defend myself a bit about all of the negative comments. We are clearly in the product development stage and I'm not a developer, so my efforts are focused on enabling #1 to spend 100% of his time on product development. I have 2 years VC experience and 3 years LBO experience (where I am now), so I do all the legal agreements (options, LLC filings, prop rights agreements, Trademark filings, contribution/consulting agreements, etc.) and I'm the one that negotiates and drafts terms for all of our other developers (they tend to come and go due to the lack of cash to pay). I file taxes, pay the bills, and track financials to report to investors on a quarterly basis. I prepare executive summaries to send to prospective investors and submit to conferences. I am the one that plays "bad cop" with the developers when things aren't going well or they are underferforming so #1 can maintain a good working relationship. I help with design, layout, and other ideas related to the site, mainly with UI, new features, and catching bugs/fixes. I interact often with our Alpha users to stay in touch with what they need and what they want. Soon I will start helping with writing tests since I asked #1 what I could do to help more directly with Beta short of learning Ruby. Some of the toughest decisions that we face having so much to do with so few resources to do it with is WHAT to work on, and I try to have open conversations with the team to make sure we're prioritizing everything right and agree as a group, because startups tend to start to ramble along unless we discuss what we absolutely need to get out the door every week. So, I wouldn't say that I don't do anything, but rather I don't do anything to ease the bottleneck, which is currently product development. #1 and I came up with the idea on a phone call a while back and it has become what it is today, so I truly am an original co-founder. It's also important to note that #1 and I started another internet company in college which worked out well considering it was a one semester project. We are also best friends. I just got married 2 weeks ago and have a job that I can't just bounce back into ever again. My entire family is in the Midwest and there are few good PE shops there. Getting a job in PE is really hard. I believe one in 50 Harvard MBAs can get one, and I was fortunate enought to get one at a good firm in the midwest near my family. So quitting my job is not something I take lightly, but I am open to it. #1 was previously an independent consultant that can easily get a job as good or better within months. He is a tremendously talented developer and I'm proud to call him my co-founder. When you say "risk", I'm not sure you can compare one man's risk of quitting with anothers. Different industry, different pay, different location, different circumstances. #1 and I had the discussion of what it would take for me to quit on day 1. I said a significant capital raise (I tossed out $500k-$1mm+) or a really strong user ramp. I spend nearly all my free time (I work a LOT, so there's not much) on this startup. For me to dedictate my only 2 free hours a day to this is a lot, especially considering my recent marriage, but I do it anyway. I would not call this a lack of dedication at all. I've taken 1 C++ class in my life, so convincing me to quit my job to learn to code is a bit far-fetched. We know what we need, we just need the developers to create it, but using me as a developer does not seem like the right decision. I really don't think the issue here is that I suck, I think it's that I'm not a developer. Things took longer than expected to get off the ground as far as product developement and #1 is getting antsy, and understandably so. We've gone through several equity-only developers that, in the end, may have taken up more of #1's time then they were worth. I've tried getting in touch with the Universities CS departments where #1 lives to try to get some local candidates to get a better startup culture/environment going since I'm in a different location than #1, but there aren't many resumes that come across with Ruby experience. If I'm in the way of making this a success, I'm willing to do what it takes to remove me as an obstacle. I guess (no offense) I'm just not convinced that YC and $15,000 is what it takes to make this a success. I think another full-time talented developer that can work with #1 in the same city would do wonders, and I'm willing to cough up the equity. Now that everyone knows the full story, I'd be interested to hear some feedback. Maybe the feedback is still that I suck, but at least you have my side of the story. If everyone thinks YC is critical to where we are going and if PG would admit #1 if I stepped down and re-worked the equity I would be willing to do that. The important part is that I'm a fair, honest, and flexible guy and just want this to be a success. I understand my lack of development is not really helping us right now, but my "non-production" contributions should not be overlooked either. I apologize for airing our dirty laundry here, but I felt I had to respond once it was up. - #2
• webwright 19y ago
  Heh-- I had a similar conversation with my team with similar results. Sucks, eh? I'm 35, I've built and sold two web businesses, and I think the YC program is a freakin' steal for the 2-10% that they want. If anyone wants to chat about partnering up on a YC app, drop me a line. My background is design, UX, light coding (rails, etc), SEO, SMM, etc. I'd happily chat about any ideas (I've got a few of my own), as long as the proposed revenue model isn't "targetted advertising". :-) I bet we could have a prototype ready for review-time.
• lefstathiou 19y ago
  Fortune favors the bold my friend. Be Bold.
• imsteve 19y ago
  Girlfriends and wives are always the hidden factor that will hold you back if you don't consider this carefully. So I say, go straight to the root of the problem. See if you can make a plan that allows them to destroy neither their personal lives nor the company.