11 ms·

Piracy Doesn’t Hurt Game of Thrones, Director Says

136 points by fraqed 14y ago

fnordfnordfnord 14y ago
What hurts them is not selling it outside the HBO/Cable sales channel.
- jfb 14y ago
  Apparently not, if 4.3 million pirated copies isn't hurting their bottom line.
tptacek 14y ago
Petrarca directed just two episodes of GoT. The showrunner for GoT is David Benioff.
- nollidge 14y ago
  Benioff and also D.B. Weiss.
Symmetry 14y ago
"Online piracy is like fouling in basketball. You want to penalize it to prevent it from getting out of control, but any effort to actually eliminate it would be a cure much worse than the disease." http://www.slate.com/articles/business/small_business/2012/01/sopa_stopping_online_piracy_would_be_a_social_and_economic_disaster_.html http://www.slate.com/articles/business/small_business/2012/0...
nollidge 14y ago
David Petrarca is not "the show's director", he's a director of two episodes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Game_of_Thrones_episodes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Game_of_Thrones_episode...
teilo 14y ago
I know nothing of HBO's revenue numbers. But I would predict this much: If HBO Go were available as a standalone subscription, the number of copies of Game of Thrones that are pirated would drop substantially, and HBO's overall revenue would go up, not down. If they offered a Game of Thrones only option at a discount, their revenue would go way up. Yes, armchair quarterbacking, so take it for what it's worth. I pay for my TV, but I'm a cable cutter. I pay for Netflix and Hulu Plus. I pay for particular series on iTunes that I cannot get anywhere else. I will not under any circumstances go back to cable or dish. Therefore I will not ever be paying for HBO. But I would purchase an HBO Go subscription in a heartbeat if I had the option. I have to think I represent a fairly significant number of people in the same position.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- InvisibleCities 14y ago
  > If HBO Go were available as a standalone subscription, the number of copies of Game of Thrones that are pirated would drop substantially, and HBO's overall revenue would go up, not down. If they offered a Game of Thrones only option at a discount, their revenue would go way up. The problem with that idea is the cable companies. Back in 2012, the contract between HBO and the cable providers was up for renegotiation. HBO wanted to turn HBO Go into a standalone service; the cable companies basically said that if HBO were to do that, they would drop HBO. While I am sure that HBO would make tons of money from a web-only service, I am guessing that their cable numbers are better, for now. Whether those numbers stay the same in 2016, when the contract is up for renegotiation again, remains to be seen.
  - e40 14y ago
    That is called "negotiation". It's unclear if the cable provides would have actually slit their own throats. There are a LOT of cable subscribers that wouldn't have the means to use HBO Go, and they would be pissed off.
    - 14y ago
codex 14y ago
The director is not responsible for HBO's bottom line, so I'm not sure he's as qualified to comment as others within HBO. For example, he doesn't know how HBO subscription numbers are affected by piracy. In fact, from his perspective, he may benefit more from piracy, depending on his compensation structure, as it enhances his fame, and he may not be paid proportionally to HBO's subscription revenue. So his interests may diverge from HBO's.
tn13 14y ago
No DRM based system can managed to extract money from me.
Nikkau 14y ago
Phone call is coming.
BerislavLopac 14y ago
The obligatory case in point: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones
cynicalkane 14y ago
It's price discrimination by ethics and wealth. If the product of your willingness to pay and unwillingness to pirate exceeds some amount of money, you buy HBO to watch Game of Thrones. There'll be a certain proportion of piracy:payers where this is no longer true. If everyone took TorrentFreak's position on piracy, Game of Thrones would make no money no matter how popular it was. If nobody pirated, Game of Thrones would be less popular. So it sits nicely at the current position. But this does not help if you don't have the 'cultural buzz' working in your favor, or if there are too many pirates. It's a mistake to think people adapting to the economic field means the economic field is good. DRM platforms like Steam are adaptations that do not please the sort of people who read TorrentFreak, but are necessary because of the extraordinary piracy rate of video games (famously, over 90% for World of Goo).
- masklinn 14y ago
  > It's price discrimination by ethics and wealth. If the product of your willingness to pay and unwillingness to pirate exceeds some amount of money, you buy HBO to watch Game of Thrones. It's also discrimination by discrimination. I'm not in the US, even with ethics and wealth I do not have the option of buying HBO to watch Game of Thrones. My "legal" options are to 1. wait a year for the DVD box sets or 2. wait two years for a shitty dub For some reason I can't quite put my finger on, all of these options not only suck hefty amount of balls but do so even more when the communities I interact with and share an interest in watch the episodes at or around release (also note, TV series communities don't maintain "spoiler alerts" for 2+ years after episode diffusion).
  - Shivetya 14y ago
    Being in the US I cannot just buy HBO; not that I would want to, I only want this show. To buy HBO requires me to buy a minimum package with either the cable or satellite companies. that takes the cost of HBO and quadruples it if not more. I just received my legal copies of season two, it was 34.99 from Amazon. HBO could have had that money many months earlier if they would simply sell the show via iTunes or similar.
    - 14y ago
rplnt 14y ago
On reddit someone mentioned this is one of many directors of the show and certainly isn't an HBO's spokeman or anything like that. It's just one man's opinion.
- MrScruff 14y ago
  Compared to the way torrentfreak and techdirt treat the issue of intellectual property, John Gruber is an impartial observer.
speeder 14y ago
I pirate tv shows. As couple of them. Many people come to bother me on that. But I must say: The alternative is just not seeing them at all it is depriving myself of culture. And not by choice, it just happen that where I live those shows are not available at all even with hackery, and I doubt they will ever be, since I like sci-fi stuff, and here what sells is oversexual soapoperas. Do like Steam! I had about 600 pirated games here, after they launched I bought the most liked ones on Steam ( and later gog.com that I prefer) and stopped pirating games. You want less piracy? Make a effort to take your fans money, and they will happily hand it to you.
- hnriot 14y ago
  I don't think you not seeing game of thrones is really depriving you of culture! If you want culture, go read a book. If you want titiilating blondes with dragons in skimpy outfits, then get an HBO subscription..
- eddieroger 14y ago
  You have another option, and it's one that a majority of viewers do - pay for the service you want to use. Piracy is the option you've chosen. HBO has chosen how they want to take your money, and you don't want to give it to them on their terms. Unfortunately for you, it's their product to sell on their terms. And, following the Steam example, if you have cable, HBO regularly has free weekends where they will show blocks of their programming. This is the try-before-you-buy. Again, it's yours not to buy, but they have decided how they want to make their product available.
  - davmre 14y ago
    Many people don't have the option to pay for HBO, either because they live in a country where it's not available, or because they don't have cable TV and it's not reasonable or affordable (for many people) to pay $60+/mo to Comcast just to have the privilege of then paying another $15+/mo for HBO. So yes, Game of Thrones is HBO's product to sell how they want. And if they choose not to make it available in some countries, or to people without cable TV, that's their choice. But they shouldn't be offended or surprised when the people they refuse to sell to end up finding other ways to watch their content. To his credit, David Petrarca seems to recognize that -- given that someone can't buy your content -- it's still better for everyone involved if they pirate it, discuss it with friends, and contribute to its mindshare. The alternative is that they ignore it completely, in which case HBO gets no money and no buzz.
OGinparadise 14y ago
"Piracy Doesn’t Hurt Game of Thrones, Director Says" Now, what does HBO say? The director presumably didn't put any money to produce it. Personally I'd pay around $1 an episode but I understand HBO's business model and what they stand to lose if they went this route too
adcoelho 14y ago
A good option for series to still profit from advertisements even if they are pirated is to insert them in video instead of the regular break cuts that can easily be edited out. Thus, even if the show is pirated the consumer would still be exposed to advertising. The problem here is that we would have to bear with those lame, sort of 'watermark', adds. There may be a way for shows to cope with piracy in a profitable way.
- nollidge 14y ago
  This is a show on a premium cable channel, so advertising is not at all part of the equation.
timedoctor 14y ago
The problem is that privacy is better in EVERY way: 1. Faster to download the content 2. Much wider availability of content 3. Cheaper (free) 4. Easier to search and find the content that you want (for people who know how to pirate effectively, for those that don't it's actually quite hard to search and find the content and that's one of the main reasons why piracy hasn't dominated more than it already has) 5. Better formatting of the content (easier to manipulate, download it and consume it how you want it) Personally I would always pay for content if it's available and easy to download. Unfortunately it's not. There are significant restrictions in what you can purchase online and download.
- progrock 14y ago
  I like a little privacy too! I get what you mean about convenience, I have a boxed DVD version of Game of Thrones, and I ended up using a download instead, mainly because I can't handle the hum of my DVD drive! Laughable though that is. If however it was very simple to rip the DVDS I might have gone that route. I have loads of DVDS that feel almost obsolete. The quality of some of them is just shocking. DVD menus, that forever loop and keep you up at night. The low resolution and sound is crappy compared with HD. And the box get's in my way. I feel a little cheated here. I wouldn't want to go out and buy those DVDS in my collection again in a format that will be obsolete in a year or two. If I have bought the right to view them - shouldn't I be able to download improved versions? I have a meager download allowance, and my connection speed is too slow for streaming, so sadly I loose out to some of the subscription services that would otherwise please me.

136 points by fraqed 14y ago

fnordfnordfnord 14y ago

What hurts them is not selling it outside the HBO/Cable sales channel.

jfb 14y ago
Apparently not, if 4.3 million pirated copies isn't hurting their bottom line.

tptacek 14y ago

Petrarca directed just two episodes of GoT. The showrunner for GoT is David Benioff.

nollidge 14y ago
Benioff and also D.B. Weiss.

Symmetry 14y ago

"Online piracy is like fouling in basketball. You want to penalize it to prevent it from getting out of control, but any effort to actually eliminate it would be a cure much worse than the disease." http://www.slate.com/articles/business/small_business/2012/01/sopa_stopping_online_piracy_would_be_a_social_and_economic_disaster_.html http://www.slate.com/articles/business/small_business/2012/0...

nollidge 14y ago

David Petrarca is not "the show's director", he's a director of two episodes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Game_of_Thrones_episodes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Game_of_Thrones_episode...

teilo 14y ago

I know nothing of HBO's revenue numbers. But I would predict this much: If HBO Go were available as a standalone subscription, the number of copies of Game of Thrones that are pirated would drop substantially, and HBO's overall revenue would go up, not down. If they offered a Game of Thrones only option at a discount, their revenue would go way up. Yes, armchair quarterbacking, so take it for what it's worth. I pay for my TV, but I'm a cable cutter. I pay for Netflix and Hulu Plus. I pay for particular series on iTunes that I cannot get anywhere else. I will not under any circumstances go back to cable or dish. Therefore I will not ever be paying for HBO. But I would purchase an HBO Go subscription in a heartbeat if I had the option. I have to think I represent a fairly significant number of people in the same position.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
InvisibleCities 14y ago
> If HBO Go were available as a standalone subscription, the number of copies of Game of Thrones that are pirated would drop substantially, and HBO's overall revenue would go up, not down. If they offered a Game of Thrones only option at a discount, their revenue would go way up. The problem with that idea is the cable companies. Back in 2012, the contract between HBO and the cable providers was up for renegotiation. HBO wanted to turn HBO Go into a standalone service; the cable companies basically said that if HBO were to do that, they would drop HBO. While I am sure that HBO would make tons of money from a web-only service, I am guessing that their cable numbers are better, for now. Whether those numbers stay the same in 2016, when the contract is up for renegotiation again, remains to be seen.
- e40 14y ago
  That is called "negotiation". It's unclear if the cable provides would have actually slit their own throats. There are a LOT of cable subscribers that wouldn't have the means to use HBO Go, and they would be pissed off.
  - 14y ago

codex 14y ago

The director is not responsible for HBO's bottom line, so I'm not sure he's as qualified to comment as others within HBO. For example, he doesn't know how HBO subscription numbers are affected by piracy. In fact, from his perspective, he may benefit more from piracy, depending on his compensation structure, as it enhances his fame, and he may not be paid proportionally to HBO's subscription revenue. So his interests may diverge from HBO's.

tn13 14y ago

No DRM based system can managed to extract money from me.

Nikkau 14y ago

Phone call is coming.

BerislavLopac 14y ago

The obligatory case in point: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones

cynicalkane 14y ago

It's price discrimination by ethics and wealth. If the product of your willingness to pay and unwillingness to pirate exceeds some amount of money, you buy HBO to watch Game of Thrones. There'll be a certain proportion of piracy:payers where this is no longer true. If everyone took TorrentFreak's position on piracy, Game of Thrones would make no money no matter how popular it was. If nobody pirated, Game of Thrones would be less popular. So it sits nicely at the current position. But this does not help if you don't have the 'cultural buzz' working in your favor, or if there are too many pirates. It's a mistake to think people adapting to the economic field means the economic field is good. DRM platforms like Steam are adaptations that do not please the sort of people who read TorrentFreak, but are necessary because of the extraordinary piracy rate of video games (famously, over 90% for World of Goo).

masklinn 14y ago
> It's price discrimination by ethics and wealth. If the product of your willingness to pay and unwillingness to pirate exceeds some amount of money, you buy HBO to watch Game of Thrones. It's also discrimination by discrimination. I'm not in the US, even with ethics and wealth I do not have the option of buying HBO to watch Game of Thrones. My "legal" options are to 1. wait a year for the DVD box sets or 2. wait two years for a shitty dub For some reason I can't quite put my finger on, all of these options not only suck hefty amount of balls but do so even more when the communities I interact with and share an interest in watch the episodes at or around release (also note, TV series communities don't maintain "spoiler alerts" for 2+ years after episode diffusion).
- Shivetya 14y ago
  Being in the US I cannot just buy HBO; not that I would want to, I only want this show. To buy HBO requires me to buy a minimum package with either the cable or satellite companies. that takes the cost of HBO and quadruples it if not more. I just received my legal copies of season two, it was 34.99 from Amazon. HBO could have had that money many months earlier if they would simply sell the show via iTunes or similar.
  - 14y ago

rplnt 14y ago

On reddit someone mentioned this is one of many directors of the show and certainly isn't an HBO's spokeman or anything like that. It's just one man's opinion.

MrScruff 14y ago
Compared to the way torrentfreak and techdirt treat the issue of intellectual property, John Gruber is an impartial observer.

speeder 14y ago

I pirate tv shows. As couple of them. Many people come to bother me on that. But I must say: The alternative is just not seeing them at all it is depriving myself of culture. And not by choice, it just happen that where I live those shows are not available at all even with hackery, and I doubt they will ever be, since I like sci-fi stuff, and here what sells is oversexual soapoperas. Do like Steam! I had about 600 pirated games here, after they launched I bought the most liked ones on Steam ( and later gog.com that I prefer) and stopped pirating games. You want less piracy? Make a effort to take your fans money, and they will happily hand it to you.

hnriot 14y ago
I don't think you not seeing game of thrones is really depriving you of culture! If you want culture, go read a book. If you want titiilating blondes with dragons in skimpy outfits, then get an HBO subscription..
eddieroger 14y ago
You have another option, and it's one that a majority of viewers do - pay for the service you want to use. Piracy is the option you've chosen. HBO has chosen how they want to take your money, and you don't want to give it to them on their terms. Unfortunately for you, it's their product to sell on their terms. And, following the Steam example, if you have cable, HBO regularly has free weekends where they will show blocks of their programming. This is the try-before-you-buy. Again, it's yours not to buy, but they have decided how they want to make their product available.
- davmre 14y ago
  Many people don't have the option to pay for HBO, either because they live in a country where it's not available, or because they don't have cable TV and it's not reasonable or affordable (for many people) to pay $60+/mo to Comcast just to have the privilege of then paying another $15+/mo for HBO. So yes, Game of Thrones is HBO's product to sell how they want. And if they choose not to make it available in some countries, or to people without cable TV, that's their choice. But they shouldn't be offended or surprised when the people they refuse to sell to end up finding other ways to watch their content. To his credit, David Petrarca seems to recognize that -- given that someone can't buy your content -- it's still better for everyone involved if they pirate it, discuss it with friends, and contribute to its mindshare. The alternative is that they ignore it completely, in which case HBO gets no money and no buzz.

OGinparadise 14y ago

"Piracy Doesn’t Hurt Game of Thrones, Director Says" Now, what does HBO say? The director presumably didn't put any money to produce it. Personally I'd pay around $1 an episode but I understand HBO's business model and what they stand to lose if they went this route too

adcoelho 14y ago

A good option for series to still profit from advertisements even if they are pirated is to insert them in video instead of the regular break cuts that can easily be edited out. Thus, even if the show is pirated the consumer would still be exposed to advertising. The problem here is that we would have to bear with those lame, sort of 'watermark', adds. There may be a way for shows to cope with piracy in a profitable way.

nollidge 14y ago
This is a show on a premium cable channel, so advertising is not at all part of the equation.

timedoctor 14y ago

The problem is that privacy is better in EVERY way: 1. Faster to download the content 2. Much wider availability of content 3. Cheaper (free) 4. Easier to search and find the content that you want (for people who know how to pirate effectively, for those that don't it's actually quite hard to search and find the content and that's one of the main reasons why piracy hasn't dominated more than it already has) 5. Better formatting of the content (easier to manipulate, download it and consume it how you want it) Personally I would always pay for content if it's available and easy to download. Unfortunately it's not. There are significant restrictions in what you can purchase online and download.

progrock 14y ago
I like a little privacy too! I get what you mean about convenience, I have a boxed DVD version of Game of Thrones, and I ended up using a download instead, mainly because I can't handle the hum of my DVD drive! Laughable though that is. If however it was very simple to rip the DVDS I might have gone that route. I have loads of DVDS that feel almost obsolete. The quality of some of them is just shocking. DVD menus, that forever loop and keep you up at night. The low resolution and sound is crappy compared with HD. And the box get's in my way. I feel a little cheated here. I wouldn't want to go out and buy those DVDS in my collection again in a format that will be obsolete in a year or two. If I have bought the right to view them - shouldn't I be able to download improved versions? I have a meager download allowance, and my connection speed is too slow for streaming, so sadly I loose out to some of the subscription services that would otherwise please me.