5 ms·

Fighting game Skullgirls reaches crowdfunding goal in less than 24 hours

34 points by jeffreyfox 14y ago

MostAwesomeDude 14y ago
Since nobody here appears to know the background story or have read the actual Indiegogo page (http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/keep-skullgirls-growing http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/keep-skullgirls-growing)... This game has been big news in the fighting game community, mostly because it's seriously high quality and the developers have lots of community credentials. Great. However, their publisher dropped them following a legal spat, and as a result, they aren't getting paid anymore, despite having a PC port to finish up and some new characters that they'd like to implement. This money is not just to finish a character; it's also an indicator that the community likes this game enough to continue to support its creators. More practically, it's salary for them for a few months.
weisser 14y ago
What's amazing is that they made their goal in under 24 hours to raise 150k for a DOWNLOADABLE CHARACTER. I thought this was for the full game.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
ido 14y ago
Not trying to be snarky, but can someone who knows more about fighting game development explain their budget? For comparison, Skullgirls' budget was around $1.7 million and, since Filia was complete at the time of signing, that covered production of the last seven characters. Surely producing the game was a lot more work than just making the characters? As far as you can even break down the budget in retrospect at all, surely adding another character to an existing game doesn't costs anywhere close to entire_budget_of_game/num_of_existing_chars($1.7m/7=$242k, big-band is supposedly a from scratch character with a $200k budget, the partially complete Squigly is $150k)? EDIT: also, what is "Hit-box Contracting"?
- icegreentea 14y ago
  The hit-box of a character is the area which a blow must land to count as a 'hit'. For various gameplay reasons, this typically isn't the same as the area the sprite takes up. In all likelihood, it's going to be done by hand, with someone going over every frame of animation, defining the hitbox. Even if there was an automatic way to generate a hit-box, they would likely have to go through at least move by move to make sure there are no balance issues.
  - dragontamer 14y ago
    More importantly though, hitboxes are defining features of a character. Extending hitboxes, or shrinking them, is an absolute core fundamental when it comes to balancing fighting games. Showing a large budget just for hitboxes communicates to the fighting game community that they know what they're doing. Yeah, hitboxes are extremely important to the feel of the game. They need to get it done right.
- dyselon 14y ago
  Definitely not. Big band would be significantly less, however, if not for crowd funding specific costs (backer rewards, payment fees), and services a publisher generally provides (QA, first party fees). Also, the 8th character counts for way less, since most of her frames were reused from other characters. I was a designer on the game, and while it's hard to look back and tell you exactly how much time was spent on character specific stuff vs. general features since people's time was often split awkwardly, I'd say the clear majority of resources were spent on character specific stuff. Art was by far the largest team, and worked almost exclusively on character specific stuff. Design was more evenly split, but definitely leaned towards characters. Tech was unsurprisingly mostly other features, but was a small, small team (poor Ben and Rick )= )
  - ido 14y ago
    Thanks for the insider insight!
- davweb 14y ago
GhotiFish 14y ago
"Remember, She's FREE[1]" 1. for a limited time WHY would you put up with this? How did people see slimy trash like this and actually decide to give them money? I feel sick.
- zalzane 14y ago
  Welcome to the crowdfunding fad. Try to cut yourself a hundred thousand dollar slice of the pie before it dies out.
  - rikacomet 14y ago
    Not true, people have different tastes, it is now through Crowdfunding sites, unique products can flourish finally, so people will spend their extra income whichever way they like. Besides, Indiego, unlike Kickstarter isn't confined to US/UK only, there is a big world out there, 5/6 of world population lives outside of the said countries, more people don't just mean more money, but also that you have to provide these products/collectables/benefits to each one of them == more transportation cost
  - dragontamer 14y ago
    See my post here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5291205 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5291205 The Skullgirls team is highly respected in the fighting game community. They not only are catering to their niche, they are the only company in the USA who is catering to their niche. Just because their budget is small doesn't mean that they're a non-serious company, or part of a crowdfunding fad. They are the real deal to fighting game players, especially those who specialize in "Hyper-fighters". (MvC, BlazBlue, and Skullgirls)
- Kyhz 14y ago
  To clear up that point, they aren't saying you can use her for a limited time and then take her away unless you pay. It's just regular DLC that happens to be 100% off for 3 months. Now if your gripe is about paid DLC in general or misleading advertising, that is something else entirely, but the phrasing used could lead to some misunderstandings.
kunil 14y ago
150k for a single character. And fundraising goes for a month for such a job? Actual job itself shouldn't take more than a month
- kunil 14y ago
  indiegogo page http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/keep-skullgirls-growing?c=home http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/keep-skullgirls-growing?c=... > $48,000: Staff Salaries - 8 people for 10 weeks Am I underestimating the job or this manpower is ridiculous? Game is already there, they are adding a new character.
  - rikacomet 14y ago
    depends on the structure of the game, imagine a additional protagonist in Zelda, how much work would that take? Also, its about productivity, they might or might not be as productive as your top game developer. Plus if people are ready to pay for it, people will.
  - enqk 14y ago
    A fighting game is an exercise in balancing the mechanics of multiple characters to one another. It's a bit like a rock-paper-scissors in realtime with a lot more combinations. So besides the animation, which is equivalent to that of a cartoon (and skullgirls has some quite excellent animation standards) there is a lot of balancing and fine tuning of the various move characteristics.
  - kevingadd 14y ago
    Designing a fighting game character is hard work. Actual manpower goes into it. Lots of actual manpower. We're talking on the order of thousands (if not tens of thousands) of animation frames, typically partially or completely hand-drawn for a 2D game (or hand-animated in a 3D app for a 3D game), along with sound effects and game balance and programming to implement the character's ability set. Then there's testing...
dragontamer 14y ago
The Fighting game community is tight as hell, and have a great time all together every year in Las Vegas at the big Evo tournament. This is not your typical venture. The team at Skullgirls has proven themselves already. Before even starting this game, the lead designer was a top player in the fighting game scene (Mike Z). He was around as the American Fighting game scene began, and taught many how to play fighting games at an interstate level (Puny Americans lose to Gigantic Tager!!). One can argue that they are community leaders in some respects. Ask anyone in the scene, they know what Skullgirls is: the only "real" American hyper-fighter. They are very tightly integrated into the community in levels that few startups can even imagine. This isn't some sort of Mortal Kombat newbie piece of trash, this is a game with an actual skill ceiling. If you're in the fighting game scene, supporting this project is a must. Its not even a matter of getting value out of this, its about supporting players you respect... highly skilled players who have ventured out of their way to develop a fighting game. This is more to a testament to the Fighting Game community, than it is to Skullgirls itself. We're freaks, and proud of it, and proud to support our brethren. There are only so many people who can consistently execute combos with 1/60th of a second accuracy (aka: 1-frame links), while simultaneously setting you up for a standing reset. There are only so many people who even understand what that means... and the Skullgirls team is one of the few that not only understands this stuff... but also designs the game at that level and improves around it. (Skullgirls is the only 2d fighter with Anti High/low unblockable setups recognition for example) I dare say, they are the only ones in America who can balance the game at this level. The other companies who understand this sort of stuff are all in Japan, and even compared to them Skullgirls has pushed the envelope. Supporting Skullgirls is supporting the Fighting Game Scene, the only real Fighting Game company in America, and bringing top tier gameplay into the American Game Design world.
- enqk 14y ago
  The following article by Patrick Miller "The educated gentlepersons fighting game primer" presents quite well the challenges and mechanics of a fighting game, if you wish to understand a bit more why designing a character is so expensive: http://www.scribd.com/doc/127524225/The-Educated-Gentleperson-s-Fighting-Game-Primer-Insert-Credit-Patrick-Miller http://www.scribd.com/doc/127524225/The-Educated-Gentleperso... I uploaded it to scribd without the writer's permission, because insert credit hasn't solved their recurrent problem with malware on wordpress. The original article is at: http://insertcredit.com/2013/01/14/the-educated-gentlepersons-fighting-game-primer/ http://insertcredit.com/2013/01/14/the-educated-gentleperson...
Shish2k 14y ago
> Fans donated $78,000 to breast-cancer research in the name of the game, which put it second behind Super Smash Bros. Melee. Normally, that would have eliminated Skullgirls from Evo Raise tens of thousands of dollars for charity = get kicked out of conventions? I have no idea how Evo works, but I assume I must be reading that wrong...
- eurleif 14y ago
  It was a competition to receive a spot. Coming in second would have meant losing that spot.

34 points by jeffreyfox 14y ago

Since nobody here appears to know the background story or have read the actual Indiegogo page (http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/keep-skullgirls-growing http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/keep-skullgirls-growing)... This game has been big news in the fighting game community, mostly because it's seriously high quality and the developers have lots of community credentials. Great. However, their publisher dropped them following a legal spat, and as a result, they aren't getting paid anymore, despite having a PC port to finish up and some new characters that they'd like to implement. This money is not just to finish a character; it's also an indicator that the community likes this game enough to continue to support its creators. More practically, it's salary for them for a few months.

weisser 14y ago

What's amazing is that they made their goal in under 24 hours to raise 150k for a DOWNLOADABLE CHARACTER. I thought this was for the full game.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

ido 14y ago

Not trying to be snarky, but can someone who knows more about fighting game development explain their budget? For comparison, Skullgirls' budget was around $1.7 million and, since Filia was complete at the time of signing, that covered production of the last seven characters. Surely producing the game was a lot more work than just making the characters? As far as you can even break down the budget in retrospect at all, surely adding another character to an existing game doesn't costs anywhere close to entire_budget_of_game/num_of_existing_chars($1.7m/7=$242k, big-band is supposedly a from scratch character with a $200k budget, the partially complete Squigly is $150k)? EDIT: also, what is "Hit-box Contracting"?

icegreentea 14y ago
The hit-box of a character is the area which a blow must land to count as a 'hit'. For various gameplay reasons, this typically isn't the same as the area the sprite takes up. In all likelihood, it's going to be done by hand, with someone going over every frame of animation, defining the hitbox. Even if there was an automatic way to generate a hit-box, they would likely have to go through at least move by move to make sure there are no balance issues.
- dragontamer 14y ago
  More importantly though, hitboxes are defining features of a character. Extending hitboxes, or shrinking them, is an absolute core fundamental when it comes to balancing fighting games. Showing a large budget just for hitboxes communicates to the fighting game community that they know what they're doing. Yeah, hitboxes are extremely important to the feel of the game. They need to get it done right.
dyselon 14y ago
Definitely not. Big band would be significantly less, however, if not for crowd funding specific costs (backer rewards, payment fees), and services a publisher generally provides (QA, first party fees). Also, the 8th character counts for way less, since most of her frames were reused from other characters. I was a designer on the game, and while it's hard to look back and tell you exactly how much time was spent on character specific stuff vs. general features since people's time was often split awkwardly, I'd say the clear majority of resources were spent on character specific stuff. Art was by far the largest team, and worked almost exclusively on character specific stuff. Design was more evenly split, but definitely leaned towards characters. Tech was unsurprisingly mostly other features, but was a small, small team (poor Ben and Rick )= )
- ido 14y ago
  Thanks for the insider insight!
davweb 14y ago

GhotiFish 14y ago

"Remember, She's FREE[1]" 1. for a limited time WHY would you put up with this? How did people see slimy trash like this and actually decide to give them money? I feel sick.

zalzane 14y ago
Welcome to the crowdfunding fad. Try to cut yourself a hundred thousand dollar slice of the pie before it dies out.
- rikacomet 14y ago
  Not true, people have different tastes, it is now through Crowdfunding sites, unique products can flourish finally, so people will spend their extra income whichever way they like. Besides, Indiego, unlike Kickstarter isn't confined to US/UK only, there is a big world out there, 5/6 of world population lives outside of the said countries, more people don't just mean more money, but also that you have to provide these products/collectables/benefits to each one of them == more transportation cost
- dragontamer 14y ago
  See my post here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5291205 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5291205 The Skullgirls team is highly respected in the fighting game community. They not only are catering to their niche, they are the only company in the USA who is catering to their niche. Just because their budget is small doesn't mean that they're a non-serious company, or part of a crowdfunding fad. They are the real deal to fighting game players, especially those who specialize in "Hyper-fighters". (MvC, BlazBlue, and Skullgirls)
Kyhz 14y ago
To clear up that point, they aren't saying you can use her for a limited time and then take her away unless you pay. It's just regular DLC that happens to be 100% off for 3 months. Now if your gripe is about paid DLC in general or misleading advertising, that is something else entirely, but the phrasing used could lead to some misunderstandings.

kunil 14y ago

150k for a single character. And fundraising goes for a month for such a job? Actual job itself shouldn't take more than a month

kunil 14y ago
indiegogo page http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/keep-skullgirls-growing?c=home http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/keep-skullgirls-growing?c=... > $48,000: Staff Salaries - 8 people for 10 weeks Am I underestimating the job or this manpower is ridiculous? Game is already there, they are adding a new character.
- rikacomet 14y ago
  depends on the structure of the game, imagine a additional protagonist in Zelda, how much work would that take? Also, its about productivity, they might or might not be as productive as your top game developer. Plus if people are ready to pay for it, people will.
- enqk 14y ago
  A fighting game is an exercise in balancing the mechanics of multiple characters to one another. It's a bit like a rock-paper-scissors in realtime with a lot more combinations. So besides the animation, which is equivalent to that of a cartoon (and skullgirls has some quite excellent animation standards) there is a lot of balancing and fine tuning of the various move characteristics.
- kevingadd 14y ago
  Designing a fighting game character is hard work. Actual manpower goes into it. Lots of actual manpower. We're talking on the order of thousands (if not tens of thousands) of animation frames, typically partially or completely hand-drawn for a 2D game (or hand-animated in a 3D app for a 3D game), along with sound effects and game balance and programming to implement the character's ability set. Then there's testing...

dragontamer 14y ago

The Fighting game community is tight as hell, and have a great time all together every year in Las Vegas at the big Evo tournament. This is not your typical venture. The team at Skullgirls has proven themselves already. Before even starting this game, the lead designer was a top player in the fighting game scene (Mike Z). He was around as the American Fighting game scene began, and taught many how to play fighting games at an interstate level (Puny Americans lose to Gigantic Tager!!). One can argue that they are community leaders in some respects. Ask anyone in the scene, they know what Skullgirls is: the only "real" American hyper-fighter. They are very tightly integrated into the community in levels that few startups can even imagine. This isn't some sort of Mortal Kombat newbie piece of trash, this is a game with an actual skill ceiling. If you're in the fighting game scene, supporting this project is a must. Its not even a matter of getting value out of this, its about supporting players you respect... highly skilled players who have ventured out of their way to develop a fighting game. This is more to a testament to the Fighting Game community, than it is to Skullgirls itself. We're freaks, and proud of it, and proud to support our brethren. There are only so many people who can consistently execute combos with 1/60th of a second accuracy (aka: 1-frame links), while simultaneously setting you up for a standing reset. There are only so many people who even understand what that means... and the Skullgirls team is one of the few that not only understands this stuff... but also designs the game at that level and improves around it. (Skullgirls is the only 2d fighter with Anti High/low unblockable setups recognition for example) I dare say, they are the only ones in America who can balance the game at this level. The other companies who understand this sort of stuff are all in Japan, and even compared to them Skullgirls has pushed the envelope. Supporting Skullgirls is supporting the Fighting Game Scene, the only real Fighting Game company in America, and bringing top tier gameplay into the American Game Design world.

enqk 14y ago
The following article by Patrick Miller "The educated gentlepersons fighting game primer" presents quite well the challenges and mechanics of a fighting game, if you wish to understand a bit more why designing a character is so expensive: http://www.scribd.com/doc/127524225/The-Educated-Gentleperson-s-Fighting-Game-Primer-Insert-Credit-Patrick-Miller http://www.scribd.com/doc/127524225/The-Educated-Gentleperso... I uploaded it to scribd without the writer's permission, because insert credit hasn't solved their recurrent problem with malware on wordpress. The original article is at: http://insertcredit.com/2013/01/14/the-educated-gentlepersons-fighting-game-primer/ http://insertcredit.com/2013/01/14/the-educated-gentleperson...

Shish2k 14y ago

> Fans donated $78,000 to breast-cancer research in the name of the game, which put it second behind Super Smash Bros. Melee. Normally, that would have eliminated Skullgirls from Evo Raise tens of thousands of dollars for charity = get kicked out of conventions? I have no idea how Evo works, but I assume I must be reading that wrong...

eurleif 14y ago
It was a competition to receive a spot. Coming in second would have meant losing that spot.