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I think tag clouds are a fantastic idea. They just happen to be terrible for navigation. I don't know why anybody thinks that's their primary purpose. If I g

by ken 18y ago

I think tag clouds are a fantastic idea. They just happen to be terrible for navigation. I don't know why anybody thinks that's their primary purpose. If I go to a page, one glance at the tag cloud shows me what the author writes about most. I can't think of a smaller/simpler/quicker way. The fact that they're clickable is basically irrelevant.

unalone 18y ago
"I write about Macs and typography." "I love David Foster Wallace and interface design." You can say more in a sentence than you can in a cloud, and it's more personal that way, and it's not ugly.
- jmatt 18y ago
  You can say more in a sentence than you can in a cloud Yes, I agree. But the tag cloud will be more accurate. I can think of a number of blogs that have pretty ambiguous or off-target taglines. and it's not ugly Yeah there are some hideous tag clouds out there. Ugh.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
tjpick 18y ago
> I can't think of a smaller/simpler/quicker way. ordered list.
- thaumaturgy 18y ago
  You're right, but a tag cloud does offer a very obvious visual cue. There's nothing in an ordered list that suggests visually that the top item has the highest reference count.
  - mhb 18y ago
    What three variables is the tag cloud conveying by its tag sizes, and the tags' x and y locations?
    - thaumaturgy 18y ago
      The x-y of the tags is pretty much irrelevant -- I don't know if anybody's actually trying to use that to convey anything. The tag sizes are pretty unambiguous though, which is where the clouds do better than ordered lists. Ordered lists are inconsistent: sometimes they're ordered alphabetically, sometimes they're ordered by importance, sometimes by popularity, sometimes they're not ordered at all, which is visually identical to an ordered list. A tag cloud on the other hand always relates the tag size to the number of items with that particular tag. That's the visual distinction that makes them more useful than a simple list.
      - Hexstream 18y ago
        You could have a list in decreasing order of importance/fontsize... I think it's harmful to use a seemingly 2D representation when the spatial relations are meaningless. 1D (a list) would be enough.
        Raphael 18y ago
        But then you lose alphabetical order.
      - tjpick 18y ago
        but a simpler way to add this information is to title the list. "Tags by popularity". You don't have to go to the trouble of inventing a whole other representation. I'd contend that adding a little bit of information to the title is much better than going to a tag cloud. The visual cue from the tag cloud (that the bigger things are more important) is inherent in the ordered list too (the things at the top are more important). > sometimes they're not ordered at all, which is visually identical to an ordered list. An ordered list is always ordered, the only question is whether ascending or descending. And a tag cloud where the terms are randomly sized is visually identical to a tag cloud where the size means popularity... I think the benefit of tag clouds is purely aesthetic. They just look prettier in certain places, and even that point is debatable.

by ken 18y ago

unalone 18y ago

"I write about Macs and typography." "I love David Foster Wallace and interface design." You can say more in a sentence than you can in a cloud, and it's more personal that way, and it's not ugly.

jmatt 18y ago
You can say more in a sentence than you can in a cloud Yes, I agree. But the tag cloud will be more accurate. I can think of a number of blogs that have pretty ambiguous or off-target taglines. and it's not ugly Yeah there are some hideous tag clouds out there. Ugh.
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]

tjpick 18y ago

> I can't think of a smaller/simpler/quicker way. ordered list.

thaumaturgy 18y ago
You're right, but a tag cloud does offer a very obvious visual cue. There's nothing in an ordered list that suggests visually that the top item has the highest reference count.
- mhb 18y ago
  What three variables is the tag cloud conveying by its tag sizes, and the tags' x and y locations?
  - thaumaturgy 18y ago
    The x-y of the tags is pretty much irrelevant -- I don't know if anybody's actually trying to use that to convey anything. The tag sizes are pretty unambiguous though, which is where the clouds do better than ordered lists. Ordered lists are inconsistent: sometimes they're ordered alphabetically, sometimes they're ordered by importance, sometimes by popularity, sometimes they're not ordered at all, which is visually identical to an ordered list. A tag cloud on the other hand always relates the tag size to the number of items with that particular tag. That's the visual distinction that makes them more useful than a simple list.
    - Hexstream 18y ago
      You could have a list in decreasing order of importance/fontsize... I think it's harmful to use a seemingly 2D representation when the spatial relations are meaningless. 1D (a list) would be enough.
      - Raphael 18y ago
        But then you lose alphabetical order.
    - tjpick 18y ago
      but a simpler way to add this information is to title the list. "Tags by popularity". You don't have to go to the trouble of inventing a whole other representation. I'd contend that adding a little bit of information to the title is much better than going to a tag cloud. The visual cue from the tag cloud (that the bigger things are more important) is inherent in the ordered list too (the things at the top are more important). > sometimes they're not ordered at all, which is visually identical to an ordered list. An ordered list is always ordered, the only question is whether ascending or descending. And a tag cloud where the terms are randomly sized is visually identical to a tag cloud where the size means popularity... I think the benefit of tag clouds is purely aesthetic. They just look prettier in certain places, and even that point is debatable.