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lack of US PhDs? We already produce way more PhDs than the economy can absorb; if anything we should either produce less PhDs or create a better job market for

lack of US PhDs? We already produce way more PhDs than the economy can absorb; if anything we should either produce less PhDs or create a better job market for them.

michaelochurch 14y ago
We already produce way more PhDs than the economy can absorb; if anything we should either produce less PhDs or create a better job market for them. When I was a kid and first learned about the Roman Empire and its fall, and of all the other historical empires that collapsed, one of the things that I wondered was how these people could be so "stupid". Of course, I didn't understand the day-to-day nuances involved. I saw these as personalized historic entities rather than complex patterns of behavior. I just couldn't grasp why such things would "allow" themselves to fall apart. When I look at what has happened to the U.S. job market for scientists, researchers and academics and place that in the context of what we were as a society and what we've become... I get it. I now know what it is and what it looks like when a complex society "chooses" decline.
- throwaway1979 14y ago
  Right on. I was at the Smithsonian Natural History museum in DC a few days ago. They had an exhibit on pollution in the world's oceans. I was shocked at the reasons they gave to reduce pollution. To paraphrase: if we don't stop polluting, we will hurt the local economy, etc. My jaw dropped. That's the reason why we aren't supposed to destroy the oceans??? As a scientist, it is totally sad to see the state of research, and the standing scientists have in society. I don't understand why sane people would choose to get themselves into such career paths.
- cwzwarich 14y ago
  Historically speaking, wasn't the temporary boost in demand for PhDs after WW2 the abnormality?
  - michaelochurch 14y ago
    Personally, I dislike the argument that recent progress is an "abnormality". A large middle class (post-1925) is an "anomaly". Slavery being illegal is, historically speaking, extremely unusual.
frozenport 14y ago
The job market certainly sucks, but it maybe because a large number have uncompromising dreams of working in academia. In EE a PhD will land you a job at a company of your choice. As does the U.S. in general, the NavLabs suffer from an increasingly severe shortage of trained replacement civilian personnel in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (= STEM topics). The Navy’s problem is more severe than the nation’s because only U.S. citizens can work at NavLabs, and a great many U.S. STEM graduates are foreign nationals. [1] The following is a report http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a503549.pdf http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a503549.pdf.
- jamesjporter 14y ago
  This is true for EE, but that's an engineering degree. Sciences PhDs have a much harder time, even in industry (e.g. biotech is languishing).

lack of US PhDs? We already produce way more PhDs than the economy can absorb; if anything we should either produce less PhDs or create a better job market for them.

michaelochurch 14y ago

We already produce way more PhDs than the economy can absorb; if anything we should either produce less PhDs or create a better job market for them. When I was a kid and first learned about the Roman Empire and its fall, and of all the other historical empires that collapsed, one of the things that I wondered was how these people could be so "stupid". Of course, I didn't understand the day-to-day nuances involved. I saw these as personalized historic entities rather than complex patterns of behavior. I just couldn't grasp why such things would "allow" themselves to fall apart. When I look at what has happened to the U.S. job market for scientists, researchers and academics and place that in the context of what we were as a society and what we've become... I get it. I now know what it is and what it looks like when a complex society "chooses" decline.

throwaway1979 14y ago
Right on. I was at the Smithsonian Natural History museum in DC a few days ago. They had an exhibit on pollution in the world's oceans. I was shocked at the reasons they gave to reduce pollution. To paraphrase: if we don't stop polluting, we will hurt the local economy, etc. My jaw dropped. That's the reason why we aren't supposed to destroy the oceans??? As a scientist, it is totally sad to see the state of research, and the standing scientists have in society. I don't understand why sane people would choose to get themselves into such career paths.
cwzwarich 14y ago
Historically speaking, wasn't the temporary boost in demand for PhDs after WW2 the abnormality?
- michaelochurch 14y ago
  Personally, I dislike the argument that recent progress is an "abnormality". A large middle class (post-1925) is an "anomaly". Slavery being illegal is, historically speaking, extremely unusual.

frozenport 14y ago

The job market certainly sucks, but it maybe because a large number have uncompromising dreams of working in academia. In EE a PhD will land you a job at a company of your choice. As does the U.S. in general, the NavLabs suffer from an increasingly severe shortage of trained replacement civilian personnel in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (= STEM topics). The Navy’s problem is more severe than the nation’s because only U.S. citizens can work at NavLabs, and a great many U.S. STEM graduates are foreign nationals. [1] The following is a report http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a503549.pdf http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a503549.pdf.

jamesjporter 14y ago
This is true for EE, but that's an engineering degree. Sciences PhDs have a much harder time, even in industry (e.g. biotech is languishing).