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You don't seem to realize how the American government works. In all levels, from local to state to federal, their constituency consists exclusively of special

by ihsw 14y ago

You don't seem to realize how the American government works. In all levels, from local to state to federal, their constituency consists exclusively of special interest groups whom represent businesses at large. Consumers are left in the cold with regards to influencing policy since they are disorganized and (more importantly) they lack the political and economic will to exercise control over their government. Consumers rarely (if ever) contribute to campaigns, lobby, or propose legislation themselves. If you do understand it then your proposal is simply a pipe dream since this iron shield is impenetrable to individual citizenry.

ctdonath 14y ago
And this is relevant to this thread how? Who is lobbying for universal areal secrecy? BTW: you're confusing "should" with "does". I'm quite aware of how the American government works, and realize it places self-interest above even lobbyists.
lifeisstillgood 14y ago
Really. What constitutes the defenders of the second-amendment - I know they are a special interests group but it seems to be a special interest of 80% of the USA
wwweston 14y ago
> Consumers are left in the cold with regards to influencing policy since they are disorganized and (more importantly) they lack the political and economic will to exercise control over their government. Possibly because they think of themselves as consumers rather than citizens.
- oleganza 14y ago
  While thinking of themselves as consumers they do not have in mind using physical force to make producers sell them what they want at a price they like. But if you start thinking about yourself as a proud citizen, a part of a "community", you might feel a napoleonic desire to force others to do something for a "good of everyone". This does not end up well. You may become a president. I'll stick with a peaceful consumer perspective, thank you.
davidw 14y ago
> If you do understand it then your proposal is simply a pipe dream since this iron shield is impenetrable to individual citizenry. This kind of attitude is... deep breath... calm down... Well, it's bullshit, plain and simple. I played a minor part in passing a law in Italy: http://www.governo.it/Notizie/Presidenza/dettaglio.asp?d=69038 http://www.governo.it/Notizie/Presidenza/dettaglio.asp?d=690... And I don't know if you've noticed over the past few days, but Italy is not exactly an easy place to get things done, with a smoothly functioning political system. Especially not for a foreigner with no connections and without oodles of money to spend on the issue. By comparison, it's far easier for people to get involved in politics in the US if they want to work at it. This sort of self-defeating "woe is us" attitude is garbage that will get you nowhere. If you're willing to do more than sit around carping online, there are plenty of ways of getting involved and making a difference.
- rayiner 14y ago
  Bullshit is right. People yammmer on and on about corporate this and bought that, but clearly have never tried to influence legislation. You can influence legislation yourself easily. Hang out at the state legislature building with a well-researched, snappy proposal, and hang around trying to talk to legislators or their chief of staff. Its best if you have a list of people who support your proposal. You will get heard. You might not win, but odds are that if you don't it'll not be because some big company stuffed some campaign fund with a big check, but because they simply called up a legislator and said: "this will cost us jobs." People campaigning for environmental laws somehow manage to have a lot of influence, yet they have none of the bargaining advantages of the tech industry. They don't have a ton of money like the tech industry, and half of politicians and voters have an intrinsic distrust of environmentalists because they think it's God's will to pillage the earth's resources. Yet somehow we continue to make progress on environmental issues. The system isn't ideal, but it's isn't broken. Rather, techies are lazy, entitled, and arrogant. The very thought that their beliefs aren't universal, that legislators don't consider their opinions plated in gold sends them into a tizzy. The very idea that they may have to get down into the muck and engage in the political process with everyone else sounds of being beneath them.
- anotherbadlogin 14y ago
merry-christmas 14y ago
Hah, isn't it funny how smart people (like most users of this site) are un-willing to see the obvious true (what you just wrote). Nobody likes to be told they don't matter and everybody likes to be told how important they are.

by ihsw 14y ago

ctdonath 14y ago

And this is relevant to this thread how? Who is lobbying for universal areal secrecy? BTW: you're confusing "should" with "does". I'm quite aware of how the American government works, and realize it places self-interest above even lobbyists.

lifeisstillgood 14y ago

Really. What constitutes the defenders of the second-amendment - I know they are a special interests group but it seems to be a special interest of 80% of the USA

wwweston 14y ago

> Consumers are left in the cold with regards to influencing policy since they are disorganized and (more importantly) they lack the political and economic will to exercise control over their government. Possibly because they think of themselves as consumers rather than citizens.

oleganza 14y ago
While thinking of themselves as consumers they do not have in mind using physical force to make producers sell them what they want at a price they like. But if you start thinking about yourself as a proud citizen, a part of a "community", you might feel a napoleonic desire to force others to do something for a "good of everyone". This does not end up well. You may become a president. I'll stick with a peaceful consumer perspective, thank you.

davidw 14y ago

> If you do understand it then your proposal is simply a pipe dream since this iron shield is impenetrable to individual citizenry. This kind of attitude is... deep breath... calm down... Well, it's bullshit, plain and simple. I played a minor part in passing a law in Italy: http://www.governo.it/Notizie/Presidenza/dettaglio.asp?d=69038 http://www.governo.it/Notizie/Presidenza/dettaglio.asp?d=690... And I don't know if you've noticed over the past few days, but Italy is not exactly an easy place to get things done, with a smoothly functioning political system. Especially not for a foreigner with no connections and without oodles of money to spend on the issue. By comparison, it's far easier for people to get involved in politics in the US if they want to work at it. This sort of self-defeating "woe is us" attitude is garbage that will get you nowhere. If you're willing to do more than sit around carping online, there are plenty of ways of getting involved and making a difference.

rayiner 14y ago
Bullshit is right. People yammmer on and on about corporate this and bought that, but clearly have never tried to influence legislation. You can influence legislation yourself easily. Hang out at the state legislature building with a well-researched, snappy proposal, and hang around trying to talk to legislators or their chief of staff. Its best if you have a list of people who support your proposal. You will get heard. You might not win, but odds are that if you don't it'll not be because some big company stuffed some campaign fund with a big check, but because they simply called up a legislator and said: "this will cost us jobs." People campaigning for environmental laws somehow manage to have a lot of influence, yet they have none of the bargaining advantages of the tech industry. They don't have a ton of money like the tech industry, and half of politicians and voters have an intrinsic distrust of environmentalists because they think it's God's will to pillage the earth's resources. Yet somehow we continue to make progress on environmental issues. The system isn't ideal, but it's isn't broken. Rather, techies are lazy, entitled, and arrogant. The very thought that their beliefs aren't universal, that legislators don't consider their opinions plated in gold sends them into a tizzy. The very idea that they may have to get down into the muck and engage in the political process with everyone else sounds of being beneath them.
anotherbadlogin 14y ago

merry-christmas 14y ago

Hah, isn't it funny how smart people (like most users of this site) are un-willing to see the obvious true (what you just wrote). Nobody likes to be told they don't matter and everybody likes to be told how important they are.