4 ms·

> I'm just saying that just being a CS major does not make one a great programmer and likewise, a great programmer need not be a CS major. I'm emphatically not

by duaneb 14y ago

> I'm just saying that just being a CS major does not make one a great programmer and likewise, a great programmer need not be a CS major. I'm emphatically not saying this, I'm saying that a degree is good for employment. Many places will outright refuse to hire people without at least a BA in computer science (or computer engineering, I guess? I am not aware of the related fields). Thankfully, investors care more about the end code than degrees.

randomdata 14y ago
This is changing though. Even in just the last decade, people's attitudes towards the job/degree relationship has changed dramatically. If the trend continues, I expect in another decade or two more it probably won't even be a consideration, except perhaps where the law still requires.
elbear 14y ago
Your first statement was that you need a degree to get a job. Having a degree gives you access to more jobs, but you can get a job just fine without a degree.
- duaneb 14y ago
  > but you can get a job just fine without a degree. I have a few relatives who are well versed in computers but cannot find employment. I'm sure they would be reassured by your comment.
  - cookiecaper 14y ago
    Being "well-versed in computers" is not the same thing as being a valuable programmer. If you are a valuable programmer and you still can't find a job without a degree, you're doing something wrong (what you're doing wrong varies individually, of course). I have no degree, and have never gone more than a month without a job offer while actively looking for a position. One time it took two months to find a position with acceptable compensation, but I'd received a low-ball offer in the first month.
    - doktrin 14y ago
      What exactly is a "valuable programmer"? It's about as vague a notion as being "well versed in computers". Edit : essentially, you just re-defined bar without providing any real context. Taken a step further (and perhaps in a different job market), someone might say "oh, well being a valuable programmer isn't the same as being a Rockstar programmer..." The key lies in the word "valuable", which is completely situational and vague, whereas "programmer" is not.
      - elbear 14y ago
        I don't know exactly what a valuable programmer is, but I'll give you numbers regarding my situation, so that we talk about concrete things. I do Python/Django work and I have 3 years of experience. I have a GitHub profile which I show when applying for jobs and my profile shows that I've made 359 contributions in the last year. I have a LinkedIn profile through which details the technologies I use and the experience I have. Since the start of the year, I think I've been contacted by 10 recruiters with job proposals. I chose to work remotely though, with clients outside of my country.
      - cookiecaper 14y ago
        A valuable programmer, in this context, is someone who seeks to get paid by a company to write code and would have a significant (as far as individual employees go) net-positive influence on that company's financials.
        doktrin 14y ago
        So returning to the statement "...you can get a job just fine without a degree..." comes with an important caveat. Namely, that you can get a job "just fine" if you're a programmer of sufficient talent and knowledge to be able to be a net-positive influence on a company's financials. YMMW, but that's a relatively high bar. Higher, at least, than the ease that "just fine" (IMHO) implies. It's certainly possible, but non-trivial.
        cookiecaper 14y ago

by duaneb 14y ago

randomdata 14y ago

This is changing though. Even in just the last decade, people's attitudes towards the job/degree relationship has changed dramatically. If the trend continues, I expect in another decade or two more it probably won't even be a consideration, except perhaps where the law still requires.

elbear 14y ago

Your first statement was that you need a degree to get a job. Having a degree gives you access to more jobs, but you can get a job just fine without a degree.

duaneb 14y ago
> but you can get a job just fine without a degree. I have a few relatives who are well versed in computers but cannot find employment. I'm sure they would be reassured by your comment.
- cookiecaper 14y ago
  Being "well-versed in computers" is not the same thing as being a valuable programmer. If you are a valuable programmer and you still can't find a job without a degree, you're doing something wrong (what you're doing wrong varies individually, of course). I have no degree, and have never gone more than a month without a job offer while actively looking for a position. One time it took two months to find a position with acceptable compensation, but I'd received a low-ball offer in the first month.
  - doktrin 14y ago
    What exactly is a "valuable programmer"? It's about as vague a notion as being "well versed in computers". Edit : essentially, you just re-defined bar without providing any real context. Taken a step further (and perhaps in a different job market), someone might say "oh, well being a valuable programmer isn't the same as being a Rockstar programmer..." The key lies in the word "valuable", which is completely situational and vague, whereas "programmer" is not.
    - elbear 14y ago
      I don't know exactly what a valuable programmer is, but I'll give you numbers regarding my situation, so that we talk about concrete things. I do Python/Django work and I have 3 years of experience. I have a GitHub profile which I show when applying for jobs and my profile shows that I've made 359 contributions in the last year. I have a LinkedIn profile through which details the technologies I use and the experience I have. Since the start of the year, I think I've been contacted by 10 recruiters with job proposals. I chose to work remotely though, with clients outside of my country.
    - cookiecaper 14y ago
      A valuable programmer, in this context, is someone who seeks to get paid by a company to write code and would have a significant (as far as individual employees go) net-positive influence on that company's financials.
      - doktrin 14y ago
        So returning to the statement "...you can get a job just fine without a degree..." comes with an important caveat. Namely, that you can get a job "just fine" if you're a programmer of sufficient talent and knowledge to be able to be a net-positive influence on a company's financials. YMMW, but that's a relatively high bar. Higher, at least, than the ease that "just fine" (IMHO) implies. It's certainly possible, but non-trivial.
        cookiecaper 14y ago