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A meta comment: It's pretty awesome that we're already having lore discussions about our craft 50 years later. I wonder what they'll be discussing in a 100 year

A meta comment: It's pretty awesome that we're already having lore discussions about our craft 50 years later. I wonder what they'll be discussing in a 100 years about our languages now and why certain decisions were made.

pjmlp 14y ago
We will discussing how it was possible that C could endure for so many years delaying the use of safer languages for systems programming along the line of Modula-2 and Ada.
- alan_cx 14y ago
  Modula-2 ???????? Is that serious language then? We learned that back at University when I was doing my CS degree. Other students were scathing about it, going on about why we weren't doing C. But it was used as a simple introduction to programming techniques to prepare for C, Java etc. I understood its value back then as an introduction, but I never realise it had a use beyond that. I have to say, I quite enjoyed using it, and I was a little disappointed to move way from it to "proper" languages at the time. So, it is used in anger, as it were, now? If so, what can it be used for? Part of me would love to pick it up again for something vaguely serious.
  - pjmlp 14y ago
    It used to be a serious language back in the day (up to early 90's). The Lillith operating system was written in it. A fully working operating system with what could be considered a kind of GUI environment on those days. It was used at Zurich's university and a few others around the world. You can have a look at it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob0lznzkykc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob0lznzkykc (Lilith Comdex Demo) http://weblog.hansotten.com/?p=490 http://weblog.hansotten.com/?p=490 (Emulator) http://www.modulaware.com/mdlt52.htm http://www.modulaware.com/mdlt52.htm (Some background history) There were a few companies selling commercial Modula-2 compilers like Garden's Point and Excelsior. There was a UNIX system that had it as part of their compiler suite, I cannot remember which one now. It failed to fully replace Pascal, because eventually Mac/Turbo Pascal came along and most Pascal compilers had extensions that made them compatible with Mac/Turbo Pascal. Since those Pascal extensions were similar to what Modula-2 offered and many companies already had an investment in Pascal code, many kept using Pascal instead of moving into Modula-2. When UNIX gained much of the space in the enterprise world, C was the language to use if you didn't want to justify why you were using something else, so that was like the final nail in Modula-2's coffin. It is very hard for a systems programming language to gain market share if it isn't the official language used by the operating system's vendor. The language is quite powerful, when compared with C, with the added benefit of proper modules, strings and arrays. Not the pointer everywhere from C which leads to security exploits by design, so to speak. Its time has passed, now a proper replacement would be something like Oberon, when looking at Wirth's family of languages. You can use it to program embedded systems, http://www.astrobe.com/default.htm http://www.astrobe.com/default.htm.

pjmlp 14y ago

We will discussing how it was possible that C could endure for so many years delaying the use of safer languages for systems programming along the line of Modula-2 and Ada.

alan_cx 14y ago
Modula-2 ???????? Is that serious language then? We learned that back at University when I was doing my CS degree. Other students were scathing about it, going on about why we weren't doing C. But it was used as a simple introduction to programming techniques to prepare for C, Java etc. I understood its value back then as an introduction, but I never realise it had a use beyond that. I have to say, I quite enjoyed using it, and I was a little disappointed to move way from it to "proper" languages at the time. So, it is used in anger, as it were, now? If so, what can it be used for? Part of me would love to pick it up again for something vaguely serious.
- pjmlp 14y ago
  It used to be a serious language back in the day (up to early 90's). The Lillith operating system was written in it. A fully working operating system with what could be considered a kind of GUI environment on those days. It was used at Zurich's university and a few others around the world. You can have a look at it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob0lznzkykc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob0lznzkykc (Lilith Comdex Demo) http://weblog.hansotten.com/?p=490 http://weblog.hansotten.com/?p=490 (Emulator) http://www.modulaware.com/mdlt52.htm http://www.modulaware.com/mdlt52.htm (Some background history) There were a few companies selling commercial Modula-2 compilers like Garden's Point and Excelsior. There was a UNIX system that had it as part of their compiler suite, I cannot remember which one now. It failed to fully replace Pascal, because eventually Mac/Turbo Pascal came along and most Pascal compilers had extensions that made them compatible with Mac/Turbo Pascal. Since those Pascal extensions were similar to what Modula-2 offered and many companies already had an investment in Pascal code, many kept using Pascal instead of moving into Modula-2. When UNIX gained much of the space in the enterprise world, C was the language to use if you didn't want to justify why you were using something else, so that was like the final nail in Modula-2's coffin. It is very hard for a systems programming language to gain market share if it isn't the official language used by the operating system's vendor. The language is quite powerful, when compared with C, with the added benefit of proper modules, strings and arrays. Not the pointer everywhere from C which leads to security exploits by design, so to speak. Its time has passed, now a proper replacement would be something like Oberon, when looking at Wirth's family of languages. You can use it to program embedded systems, http://www.astrobe.com/default.htm http://www.astrobe.com/default.htm.