8 ms·

I don't think anything has touched me this deeply for years. I even got a little teary (which is rare for me). A lot of this I can relate to. School was hell f

by ErrantX 14y ago

I don't think anything has touched me this deeply for years. I even got a little teary (which is rare for me). A lot of this I can relate to. School was hell for me, and I still struggle to forgive the adults around me during that period who, despite knowing what I (and others) faced, failed us utterly. Of course, school is rough and tumble - but when things went too far they sympathised, and in some rare cases talked to the bullies parents. I don't ever remember anyone being excluded or punished properly, though. One thing I am never, ever, going to tell my kids is the stupid "sticks and stones" rhyme. That's just to make you feel better, not them. I'd get depressed, or upset, and get hugs and sympathy, but no solutions. The first guy he describes in this video I can relate to. I became withdrawn, anti-social, believing that solace was in books and learning rather than other people. Fortunately I ran into some people at university who slowly dragged me out of myself. And, eventually, I met a girl who tore apart my world and helped me rebuild it (although, maybe she didn't realise at the time, I'd got so good at hiding everything away). One particular idiot at school loved to taunt me, hold my upside down by my ankles. One day I snapped, and as he ran at me I picked up a chair and swung it. So. Much. Trouble. I was very nearly expelled... The same guy was a consummate bully, big, loud and evil to anyone weaker than him. There was another kid in our class, a bit large but it was more muscle than fat. He was lovely, quiet and very very odd (I think he came from a bad family). One day the bully was shaking down some younger kids in the playground and, I remember this vividly, this guy just decided enough was enough. He calmly walked across the playground and threw bully against the wall. Pounded him in the face a few times and told him to stop. It worked, so so well (he was excluded of course, but there you go...), and we rarely suffered again. What does this teach kids? That there is no justice in the world except that which you take by violence? I am certain that school ripped up several years of my life, and still adversely affects me to this day. But what can we do? Kids will be kids, eh?

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
Cthulhu_ 14y ago
> What does this teach kids? That there is no justice in the world except that which you take by violence? It teaches me, at least, that bullies get away with what they do because they don't get reprimanded enough. Physical pain is still the best thing to associate with negative or undesirable behavior. I see a distinct trend when it comes to bullying: 1. Kid gets bullied 2. Kid snaps, stands up for himself, beats up bully 3. Kid does not get bullied anymore I don't think physical violence is inherently wrong. Excess and systematic violence - as employed by a certain category of bullies - is, but some pain to associate bad behavior with is, I think, a critical part of upbringing and steering behavior. On systematic physical abuse, this is what happens when you get away with it. See also comment #2 (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5284818 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5284818); it stopped the moment the bullied stood up for himself and showed the bully, via a serving of physical violence, that his behavior is unacceptable and not without consequence. Spoiled kids that misbehave at school often are exemplary students at school, simply because teachers are able to get them to realize their behavior is unacceptable. That 'toggle' should also be done to bullies though, and I for one can't understand why not more is done about it in schools besides the rather static and easily ignored 'awareness' lessons.
- arethuza 14y ago
  Aren't all justice systems ultimately based on the threat of violence from the state?
  - marvin 14y ago
    Yes - one of the central tenets of the rule of law is that the state has monopoly on violence, which is enforced by the police and the courts.
    - polymatter 14y ago
      But in school thats not true. The bully has the monopoly on violence, which is enforced by actually committing said violence.
      - seabee 14y ago
        The bully has a de facto monopoly because no higher power is willing to exercise theirs.
brador 14y ago
What would you have liked the adults to do to solve the problem? What could they have done?
- manicdee 14y ago
  Not punish the kid defending himself with a chair? Not punish the kid hitting back at someone who was bullying him? Not punish the kid who beat up the bully? It actually helps to have some idea of what's going on in the school yard, ask witnesses what was going on, and IF KIDS COMPLAIN ABOUT BULLYING DON'T TELL THEM TO GET OVER IT. "You're not making an effort to fit in" is blaming the victim. I'm not making the fucking effort to fit in because the other kids treat me like dirt. Why should I bother to try fitting in? But yes, the adults could have looked at the situation and realised that the bully was getting their just deserts. Punishing the victim who has been pushed past the end of their tether is not helping anyone.
  - brador 14y ago
    Evidence. Bullies are very careful to cover their tracks, they know the limits of the system, verbal bullying is usually ignored as is physical intimidation. And then it's one kids word against the others + one kid holding a chair. With the above, a reasonable adult, considering evidence, has no choice but to "arrest" the kid with the chair, since the other has done no wrong other than verbal + possible pushing. The system needs fixing by making what the bully did prior to the event actionable by the adults so it wouldn't escalate to where it did. Cameras would help. But then what do we do with the bully? Move him to another school and let the cycle repeat?
    - ErrantX 14y ago
      The system needs fixing by making what the bully did prior to the event actionable by the adults so it wouldn't escalate to where it did. Cameras would help. At a school, the adults are the system, so I think my point still stands. I've long wondered what would have fixed this... in the end the only solution I could come up with would be to segregate the consummate bullies. I'm sure smarter people could think of more adroit solutions.
barry-cotter 14y ago
But what can we do? Kids will be kids, eh? End age based classes would be a good start.
- moron4hire 14y ago
  And mandatory attendance. You can't force someone to learn when they don't want to. Stop treating schools like prisons and the attendees will stop acting like inmates.
  - Nursie 14y ago
    School is a combination of daycare and training. We make it mandatory because otherwise the kids of the disadvantaged, the uneducated or the just-plain-disorganised wouldn't get a decent start in life. It also allows more people to work - someone else is looking after the kids. There's some argument to be had about what age it should be mandatory until, sure, but mandatory schooling is most definitely a good thing for society.
    - moron4hire 14y ago
      Mandatory schooling is more about keeping people OUT of the job market than it is putting people INTO it. If schools were about training, they'd look more like universities (and if universities were about advanced training, they'd look more like business environments). How many kids study to pass the test? How many teachers teach to get the kids to pass the test? And thereafter they forget everything. I see grown-ass adults who can't calculate a simple 20% tip on paper, and more who can't do it in their heads, and that's an EASY one. People, working in industry, who don't know that the US has 50 states. I've seen programmers with computer science degrees counting on their fingers to add numbers. Again, you can't teach something to someone who doesn't want to learn, and you can't prevent someone from learning who does want to. Schools get the credit for education, but they're just present. The mandatory aspect did nothing.
      - Nursie 14y ago
        "you can't teach something to someone who doesn't want to learn" Pretty sure you can, when they're kids. Repeated exposure at the very least. I'm not going to address the rest of your comment, I disagree utterly with pretty much everything you've said there.
jbrooksuk 14y ago
> Kids will be kids, eh? Alongside the "sticks and stones rhyme" this sentence makes me tear my hair our every time I hear it. Kids who bully are thugs, not kids. My brother, he's 13, he's a kid, not a thug. He skateboards and hurts himself, plays computer games and does his homework. That is a kid. I feel or you too buddy. That whole sentence gets me really irate.
- cathustler 14y ago
  The kid with a myth of a father, and a mother who trades out her allotted food-stamps for drug money is a thug? Bullies aren't born, they're created; I have not once met a bully who had a perfect life before they decided to get angry and take it out on their peers, because, well, they don't know any better. So, yes, kids will be kids.
  - enoonyllaer 14y ago
    When I was bullied as a child, several of the bullies were children of lawyers and doctors, in well-to-do families. They were dressed well and clearly did not want for anything. It's possible that they were having some sorts of problems at home, but they certainly were not from a family such as you've described. Also, anecdotes are not data (for either of us) Even then, if I accept "kids will be kids", it should be (and certainly is not) the purpose of a school to teach children to grow from kids to well-behaved adults. You do not teach them this by ignoring the behavior when they bully, and then punishing the bullied when they inevitably decide to strike back. The Lord of the Flies atmosphere that exists in public schools is appalling, and we should not try to wave it off. It is clearly not "working as intended".
    - Mz 14y ago
      They didn't want for anything materially. Studies show that upperclass neighborhoods have as much neglect and drug addiction as the ghetto. As they say: The problem with winning the rat race is that you are still a rat. Making it your goal to be the lord in a lord of the flies environment is like that. Good families that produce healthy kids are generally solidly middle class: They work hard enough to provide basic essentials, not so hard as to value work or money over family. Current trends make it increasingly difficult for anyone to arrange that. We increasingly make people choose between family and money. We didn't always do that.
Mz 14y ago
One thing we can do is provide more and better societal support for families/parents. My older son was usually the smallest kid in class. He tended to attract bullies. In one case, I learned a little about the situation. The bully's parents were divorcing and he was apparently going through hell at home. Bullies are most likely a product of a negative social environment themselves and coping as best they can. The other thing we can do is raise kids with respect and good boundaries from the start. Although my son attracted bullies, he did not suffer unduly. He knew how to cope effectively. I was molested and raped as a child. As a parent, I enforced a strong policy of respecting boundaries. That empowered him to take action early with bullies and not tolerate small offenses and the inevitable escalation. Bullying and molesting work much the same way: The predator starts small and escalates. The most effective measures stop it early. Most approaches fail because they do not identify the problem or try to address it until it has already gone too far. I have previously written about the policy I had at home which empowered him to deal effectively with bullies: http://www.kidslikemine.com/2012/06/13/an-invisible-shield-how-to-protect-kids-from-sexual-predators/ http://www.kidslikemine.com/2012/06/13/an-invisible-shield-h...
- jasonwocky 14y ago
  That was a good blog post. I largely have the same policy with my daughters, but your post inspires me to consider applying it more strictly. Thanks.
  - Mz 14y ago
    I'm really glad to hear that.
- digitalengineer 14y ago
  Trying to up vote you, but "User mismatch"? I'll take you're advice to heart. Hope you don't mind me copying some of your advice here: "They know if someone is disrespecting them, that is a huge red flag and the person should not be trusted because they are likely some form of social predator, whether sexual or otherwise. [b]They do not go along to get along.[/b] They do not get led merrily down some slippery slope. ...The vast majority of the time, child molesters are someone the child knows and trusts, someone who has made an effort to get close and push the boundaries of what the child would accept. My sons have basically a zero tolerance policy for boundary violation, thus they were virtually immune to that type of predation."
mtoddh 14y ago
One thing I am never, ever, going to tell my kids is the stupid "sticks and stones" rhyme. That's just to make you feel better, not them. I agree. Part of the problem is that adults tend to hold kids to a much different standard than they hold themselves. For instance, as an adult, if I'm working in a company where verbal bullying and harassment is a problem, and HR does nothing to address the situation, then I'll just give my two-week notice and move on to another company. Kids on the other hand don't have the option of giving their two-week notice and moving on to another school because of a 'hostile work environment'. How many adults do you think would stick around at a company if they had to put up with the level of violence and harassment we subject our kids to in schools? And if the only response they got back from management and HR was a "sticks and stones" speech? Forget about it! Which highlights another difference- it's also in a company's own self interest to address these issues seriously, because if they don't, it's gonna effect their bottom line when good employees start leaving. But, what motivation do schools really have- it's not as if their "employees" (students) get to quit if they don't like the way they are being treated. What does this teach kids? That there is no justice in the world except that which you take by violence? My son is only two and a half right now. When he gets older my advice to him will be to first go through all of the proper channels in case bullying comes up. Give the system a chance to work, and get some documentation that you did so. And if it does work great. And if it doesn't, a right-cross to the bully's nose is what worked for me when I was a kid. Will this stop the bully from picking on people? Probably not - but it will likely make him stop picking on you. He'll move on to the next victim - one who won't fight back.
- Swizec 14y ago
  > My son is only two and a half right now. When he gets older my advice to him will be to first go through all of the proper channels in case bullying comes up. Give the system a chance to work, and get some documentation that you did so. And if it does work great. You are forgetting the schoolyard code. You never go to the appropriate channels. Ever. That is one of the worst things a kid can do to themselves. The right response to physical bullying is to stand up for yourself. It's one of the most important lessons a person can learn - how and when to stand up for themselves. I was bullied a lot in primary school, but I dealt with it and as much as bullies liked picking on me, they also knew going too far would hurt. A lot.
belorn 14y ago
Where I live (Sweden), its common to move bullied kids to new schools, because its an political impossibility to do action against bullying kids while they still are attending school. It much easier to "ask" the parent of a bullied kid to move the kid to a new school. In the extreme edges, where clear physical evidence can be collected from several years of bullying, there is sometimes a court case. Those cases is always after the kid has left the school, several, often 10+ years later. A problem is that physical evidence is extremely hard to collect from children. As the video show, kids do get bruised by accident, and when they fight, it rarely end up in obvious fighting type damage like an bruised eye or broken jaw. If one compare it to a brawl at a bar, school yard bullying do not have a bunch of reliable third-party witnesses (yes, drunk people at the bar is more trusted in this case). However, what about Justice which one takes by violence? It might work sometimes, but I would warn about gangs. Kids like adults have a tendency to form groups. Groups get group mentality, which can get very ugly very fast. One has to be very fast, quick and lucky to survive going up against a bullying gang leader. Sticks and Stones hurt. For the people who made this video, thank you. I hope this will remind people, and maybe get some tools invented to start combating bullying. Being a security interested person, I can think of several ideas but I am worried about which ones might actually have an effect and which ones will only make us feel like we are doing something. Cameras and microphones is popular in schools now, and each kid tend to have a smart-phone, and yet I not heard of a reduction in bullying. Small classes is an other solution proposed by people, but I have yet to see a case where that have made a difference. Even when a teacher has time to do something, they seems perplexed on how to deal with it. Maybe if tested tools and procedures is invented, small classes will start to have an effect on bullying.
moron4hire 14y ago
I don't know. My best friend from growing up was not bullied in any way (we were homeschooled and he was the popular one in our knot), but some sociology class in college made him internalize the notion that "names really do hurt" and it eventually tore our friendship apart. He couldn't differentiate between good-natured ribbing and bullying. I knew this guy for 25 years and "names really do hurt" turned him into a dullard who couldn't hang out with the guys and have a drink.
adrr 14y ago
There is no justice, life isn't fair and people aren't born equal. I hate to seem cynical but these are valuable life lessons for kids to learn to prepare them for real life.

by ErrantX 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

Cthulhu_ 14y ago

> What does this teach kids? That there is no justice in the world except that which you take by violence? It teaches me, at least, that bullies get away with what they do because they don't get reprimanded enough. Physical pain is still the best thing to associate with negative or undesirable behavior. I see a distinct trend when it comes to bullying: 1. Kid gets bullied 2. Kid snaps, stands up for himself, beats up bully 3. Kid does not get bullied anymore I don't think physical violence is inherently wrong. Excess and systematic violence - as employed by a certain category of bullies - is, but some pain to associate bad behavior with is, I think, a critical part of upbringing and steering behavior. On systematic physical abuse, this is what happens when you get away with it. See also comment #2 (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5284818 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5284818); it stopped the moment the bullied stood up for himself and showed the bully, via a serving of physical violence, that his behavior is unacceptable and not without consequence. Spoiled kids that misbehave at school often are exemplary students at school, simply because teachers are able to get them to realize their behavior is unacceptable. That 'toggle' should also be done to bullies though, and I for one can't understand why not more is done about it in schools besides the rather static and easily ignored 'awareness' lessons.

arethuza 14y ago
Aren't all justice systems ultimately based on the threat of violence from the state?
- marvin 14y ago
  Yes - one of the central tenets of the rule of law is that the state has monopoly on violence, which is enforced by the police and the courts.
  - polymatter 14y ago
    But in school thats not true. The bully has the monopoly on violence, which is enforced by actually committing said violence.
    - seabee 14y ago
      The bully has a de facto monopoly because no higher power is willing to exercise theirs.

brador 14y ago

What would you have liked the adults to do to solve the problem? What could they have done?

manicdee 14y ago
Not punish the kid defending himself with a chair? Not punish the kid hitting back at someone who was bullying him? Not punish the kid who beat up the bully? It actually helps to have some idea of what's going on in the school yard, ask witnesses what was going on, and IF KIDS COMPLAIN ABOUT BULLYING DON'T TELL THEM TO GET OVER IT. "You're not making an effort to fit in" is blaming the victim. I'm not making the fucking effort to fit in because the other kids treat me like dirt. Why should I bother to try fitting in? But yes, the adults could have looked at the situation and realised that the bully was getting their just deserts. Punishing the victim who has been pushed past the end of their tether is not helping anyone.
- brador 14y ago
  Evidence. Bullies are very careful to cover their tracks, they know the limits of the system, verbal bullying is usually ignored as is physical intimidation. And then it's one kids word against the others + one kid holding a chair. With the above, a reasonable adult, considering evidence, has no choice but to "arrest" the kid with the chair, since the other has done no wrong other than verbal + possible pushing. The system needs fixing by making what the bully did prior to the event actionable by the adults so it wouldn't escalate to where it did. Cameras would help. But then what do we do with the bully? Move him to another school and let the cycle repeat?
  - ErrantX 14y ago
    The system needs fixing by making what the bully did prior to the event actionable by the adults so it wouldn't escalate to where it did. Cameras would help. At a school, the adults are the system, so I think my point still stands. I've long wondered what would have fixed this... in the end the only solution I could come up with would be to segregate the consummate bullies. I'm sure smarter people could think of more adroit solutions.

barry-cotter 14y ago

But what can we do? Kids will be kids, eh? End age based classes would be a good start.

moron4hire 14y ago
And mandatory attendance. You can't force someone to learn when they don't want to. Stop treating schools like prisons and the attendees will stop acting like inmates.
- Nursie 14y ago
  School is a combination of daycare and training. We make it mandatory because otherwise the kids of the disadvantaged, the uneducated or the just-plain-disorganised wouldn't get a decent start in life. It also allows more people to work - someone else is looking after the kids. There's some argument to be had about what age it should be mandatory until, sure, but mandatory schooling is most definitely a good thing for society.
  - moron4hire 14y ago
    Mandatory schooling is more about keeping people OUT of the job market than it is putting people INTO it. If schools were about training, they'd look more like universities (and if universities were about advanced training, they'd look more like business environments). How many kids study to pass the test? How many teachers teach to get the kids to pass the test? And thereafter they forget everything. I see grown-ass adults who can't calculate a simple 20% tip on paper, and more who can't do it in their heads, and that's an EASY one. People, working in industry, who don't know that the US has 50 states. I've seen programmers with computer science degrees counting on their fingers to add numbers. Again, you can't teach something to someone who doesn't want to learn, and you can't prevent someone from learning who does want to. Schools get the credit for education, but they're just present. The mandatory aspect did nothing.
    - Nursie 14y ago
      "you can't teach something to someone who doesn't want to learn" Pretty sure you can, when they're kids. Repeated exposure at the very least. I'm not going to address the rest of your comment, I disagree utterly with pretty much everything you've said there.

jbrooksuk 14y ago

> Kids will be kids, eh? Alongside the "sticks and stones rhyme" this sentence makes me tear my hair our every time I hear it. Kids who bully are thugs, not kids. My brother, he's 13, he's a kid, not a thug. He skateboards and hurts himself, plays computer games and does his homework. That is a kid. I feel or you too buddy. That whole sentence gets me really irate.

cathustler 14y ago
The kid with a myth of a father, and a mother who trades out her allotted food-stamps for drug money is a thug? Bullies aren't born, they're created; I have not once met a bully who had a perfect life before they decided to get angry and take it out on their peers, because, well, they don't know any better. So, yes, kids will be kids.
- enoonyllaer 14y ago
  When I was bullied as a child, several of the bullies were children of lawyers and doctors, in well-to-do families. They were dressed well and clearly did not want for anything. It's possible that they were having some sorts of problems at home, but they certainly were not from a family such as you've described. Also, anecdotes are not data (for either of us) Even then, if I accept "kids will be kids", it should be (and certainly is not) the purpose of a school to teach children to grow from kids to well-behaved adults. You do not teach them this by ignoring the behavior when they bully, and then punishing the bullied when they inevitably decide to strike back. The Lord of the Flies atmosphere that exists in public schools is appalling, and we should not try to wave it off. It is clearly not "working as intended".
  - Mz 14y ago
    They didn't want for anything materially. Studies show that upperclass neighborhoods have as much neglect and drug addiction as the ghetto. As they say: The problem with winning the rat race is that you are still a rat. Making it your goal to be the lord in a lord of the flies environment is like that. Good families that produce healthy kids are generally solidly middle class: They work hard enough to provide basic essentials, not so hard as to value work or money over family. Current trends make it increasingly difficult for anyone to arrange that. We increasingly make people choose between family and money. We didn't always do that.

Mz 14y ago

One thing we can do is provide more and better societal support for families/parents. My older son was usually the smallest kid in class. He tended to attract bullies. In one case, I learned a little about the situation. The bully's parents were divorcing and he was apparently going through hell at home. Bullies are most likely a product of a negative social environment themselves and coping as best they can. The other thing we can do is raise kids with respect and good boundaries from the start. Although my son attracted bullies, he did not suffer unduly. He knew how to cope effectively. I was molested and raped as a child. As a parent, I enforced a strong policy of respecting boundaries. That empowered him to take action early with bullies and not tolerate small offenses and the inevitable escalation. Bullying and molesting work much the same way: The predator starts small and escalates. The most effective measures stop it early. Most approaches fail because they do not identify the problem or try to address it until it has already gone too far. I have previously written about the policy I had at home which empowered him to deal effectively with bullies: http://www.kidslikemine.com/2012/06/13/an-invisible-shield-how-to-protect-kids-from-sexual-predators/ http://www.kidslikemine.com/2012/06/13/an-invisible-shield-h...

jasonwocky 14y ago
That was a good blog post. I largely have the same policy with my daughters, but your post inspires me to consider applying it more strictly. Thanks.
- Mz 14y ago
  I'm really glad to hear that.
digitalengineer 14y ago
Trying to up vote you, but "User mismatch"? I'll take you're advice to heart. Hope you don't mind me copying some of your advice here: "They know if someone is disrespecting them, that is a huge red flag and the person should not be trusted because they are likely some form of social predator, whether sexual or otherwise. [b]They do not go along to get along.[/b] They do not get led merrily down some slippery slope. ...The vast majority of the time, child molesters are someone the child knows and trusts, someone who has made an effort to get close and push the boundaries of what the child would accept. My sons have basically a zero tolerance policy for boundary violation, thus they were virtually immune to that type of predation."

mtoddh 14y ago

One thing I am never, ever, going to tell my kids is the stupid "sticks and stones" rhyme. That's just to make you feel better, not them. I agree. Part of the problem is that adults tend to hold kids to a much different standard than they hold themselves. For instance, as an adult, if I'm working in a company where verbal bullying and harassment is a problem, and HR does nothing to address the situation, then I'll just give my two-week notice and move on to another company. Kids on the other hand don't have the option of giving their two-week notice and moving on to another school because of a 'hostile work environment'. How many adults do you think would stick around at a company if they had to put up with the level of violence and harassment we subject our kids to in schools? And if the only response they got back from management and HR was a "sticks and stones" speech? Forget about it! Which highlights another difference- it's also in a company's own self interest to address these issues seriously, because if they don't, it's gonna effect their bottom line when good employees start leaving. But, what motivation do schools really have- it's not as if their "employees" (students) get to quit if they don't like the way they are being treated. What does this teach kids? That there is no justice in the world except that which you take by violence? My son is only two and a half right now. When he gets older my advice to him will be to first go through all of the proper channels in case bullying comes up. Give the system a chance to work, and get some documentation that you did so. And if it does work great. And if it doesn't, a right-cross to the bully's nose is what worked for me when I was a kid. Will this stop the bully from picking on people? Probably not - but it will likely make him stop picking on you. He'll move on to the next victim - one who won't fight back.

Swizec 14y ago
> My son is only two and a half right now. When he gets older my advice to him will be to first go through all of the proper channels in case bullying comes up. Give the system a chance to work, and get some documentation that you did so. And if it does work great. You are forgetting the schoolyard code. You never go to the appropriate channels. Ever. That is one of the worst things a kid can do to themselves. The right response to physical bullying is to stand up for yourself. It's one of the most important lessons a person can learn - how and when to stand up for themselves. I was bullied a lot in primary school, but I dealt with it and as much as bullies liked picking on me, they also knew going too far would hurt. A lot.

belorn 14y ago

Where I live (Sweden), its common to move bullied kids to new schools, because its an political impossibility to do action against bullying kids while they still are attending school. It much easier to "ask" the parent of a bullied kid to move the kid to a new school. In the extreme edges, where clear physical evidence can be collected from several years of bullying, there is sometimes a court case. Those cases is always after the kid has left the school, several, often 10+ years later. A problem is that physical evidence is extremely hard to collect from children. As the video show, kids do get bruised by accident, and when they fight, it rarely end up in obvious fighting type damage like an bruised eye or broken jaw. If one compare it to a brawl at a bar, school yard bullying do not have a bunch of reliable third-party witnesses (yes, drunk people at the bar is more trusted in this case). However, what about Justice which one takes by violence? It might work sometimes, but I would warn about gangs. Kids like adults have a tendency to form groups. Groups get group mentality, which can get very ugly very fast. One has to be very fast, quick and lucky to survive going up against a bullying gang leader. Sticks and Stones hurt. For the people who made this video, thank you. I hope this will remind people, and maybe get some tools invented to start combating bullying. Being a security interested person, I can think of several ideas but I am worried about which ones might actually have an effect and which ones will only make us feel like we are doing something. Cameras and microphones is popular in schools now, and each kid tend to have a smart-phone, and yet I not heard of a reduction in bullying. Small classes is an other solution proposed by people, but I have yet to see a case where that have made a difference. Even when a teacher has time to do something, they seems perplexed on how to deal with it. Maybe if tested tools and procedures is invented, small classes will start to have an effect on bullying.

moron4hire 14y ago

I don't know. My best friend from growing up was not bullied in any way (we were homeschooled and he was the popular one in our knot), but some sociology class in college made him internalize the notion that "names really do hurt" and it eventually tore our friendship apart. He couldn't differentiate between good-natured ribbing and bullying. I knew this guy for 25 years and "names really do hurt" turned him into a dullard who couldn't hang out with the guys and have a drink.

adrr 14y ago

There is no justice, life isn't fair and people aren't born equal. I hate to seem cynical but these are valuable life lessons for kids to learn to prepare them for real life.