6 ms·

As a thought experiment, if this was done in the US with $10k, and the other subject offered me $3000 I would take it. I would not walk away from $3000 to punis

As a thought experiment, if this was done in the US with $10k, and the other subject offered me $3000 I would take it. I would not walk away from $3000 to punish him for being unfair. If he offered me $100 I would probably walk away. So I would be more tolerant of unfairness if I was getting a large enough payout. This is precisely how contracting shops work in the IT industry in the US. They keep the bulk of the money and pay the contractor just enough that he does not walk away from the deal.

JoshTriplett 14y ago
> If he offered me $100 I would probably walk away. Why? Do you really consider it worth $100 to you just to prevent someone else from getting $9900, or do you just value $100 so little that you are willing to round it down to $0? I can imagine real-world scenarios in which I might spend $100 worth of my time to try to address a problem, especially if I think that problem might affect others. (Scenarios involving an actual $100 seem even less likely, but plausible for a sufficiently egregious wrong.) However, as a game, I'd call it free money no matter the amount; neither player did anything in particular to earn the money other than taking their time to play the game, and I don't see it as even slightly unfair of the first player to offer less money to the second, so I don't see any value in "punishing" the first player. The first player happened to get the better opportunity, and the second player gets to choose between having something or having nothing. In the game version, I'd place zero value on how much the first player gets. Now, if I thought I could bluff the first player via advance communication into believing that I'd reject the offer if less than a certain amount, I'd certainly do it; however, if they called the bluff, I'll take what I can get.
- dchmiel 14y ago
  Both players are aware that the opportunity comes from just being lucky enough to be chosen to dictate the terms. I know you didn't earn the 10,000 so by you offering 100 dollars and you keeping 9,900 is insulting to some people and they do want to punish the 'lucky' player. It's not that they don't value the money they value punishing them to teach them a lesson at $100. Would your answer be the same if I said I'd keep 9,999,999.99 and gave you only a penny. Would the value of punishing me be so low that now you'd consider to do so, or is it still free money and the absolute value doesn't affect you personally?
  - icebraining 14y ago
    One should also consider other implications. If the money came from nothing, I'd probably take the penny; but I'd rather let whoever funded the research keep the money than give it to such an uncharitable person. I know this might destroy the purpose of the experiment, but frankly, they just need to take that into account.
- luser001 14y ago
  > Why? Do you really consider it worth $100 to you just to prevent someone else from getting $9900, or do you just value $100 so little that you are willing to round it down to $0? Not the original commenter. But yes to both. Look up multi-round games. Strategies fit for single-round games don't work in multi-round ones. Many of our strategies and heuristics are meant for multiround games, which is what most life interactions are. By overanalyzing the experiment and treating it "just" as a experiment, imho, you are actually defeating the point of the experiment. ymmv, just my 2 cents and other disclaimers.
- harryh 14y ago
  Would you take a penny if you knew the other guy was keeping $9999.99?
  - astine 14y ago
    That's not really a fair question. Pennies aren't worth the hassle of having to carry them around. That's like asking if I'd be willing to let the other guy have the money if he offered me effectively nothing.
    - recoiledsnake 14y ago
      Where would you draw the line? 5c, 10c, 50c, $1 or $5?
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- yesbabyyes 14y ago
  This is a favorite game of mine and I've given it some thought. I think an alternate formulation might give the typical HN reader new insight in the game. Let's say I tell you I have an idea for a company. It's a really cool idea and if we realize it we will make boatloads of money. I need your help to realize it. If you agree, you will get 20% of the company. If you don't, we won't realize it and neither of us will make any money. Do you accept? If not, why not?
  - olivier1664 14y ago
    Maybe yes. Really depends of what can be "boatloads of money" and the current appreciation of realize it. Supposing I have nothing better to do, and that you are a good team mate, I will certainly accept. This means your proposition will be more valuable to a fresh greek student without green card than to an experimented coder at Google.
  - DanBC 14y ago
    > Do you accept? If not, why not? Almost no one on HN will agree. (I predict.) Ideas are easy. Even I have ideas. Doing something with the idea is what counts. That starts with programming, but also involves selling product and running the company. So unless the idea-person has a great record of implementing great ideas and good exits people will be unwilling to lumber themselves with a lot of work for so little return.
  - sebcat 14y ago
    Not the same game, as there is no cost (time, money) in the original idea to compensate for. In your version you have to work to achieve a goal.
Nursie 14y ago
Wow, that kinda sucks. Do you mean computer-related contracting or in general? Over here in the good-ol UK I set my rate (which the customer knows about) and my agent tries to get as much on top as they can, but AFAICT (and I have relatives who are agents) the split is usually around 80-20. Which is still a lot of cash just for fixing me up with work...
- mcguire 14y ago
  In Texas, a few years ago, I was getting around 85%. Currently, or in other locations, I don't know. And at my current, government, contractor...I don't even want to think about it.
  - brightsize 14y ago
    Look up their GSA schedule. Find your job title. A few years back I was making a little over $100K/yr for an offence contractor and they were billing around 3x that per year for my services.
SatvikBeri 14y ago
Yeah, the relative value of the money matters a lot. To make it even more extreme, if the total was 100 million dollars and I was offered 1 million, I would take it. But if the total was $100 and I was offered $10, I'd probably refuse. The bit about offering more than 60% in gift-giving cultures and having the other player still reject them is surprising. What would explain that?
- astine 14y ago
  In the article they mentioned later that in gift-giving cultures receiving a gift make one indebted. They are rejecting the offers, not because they are too small, but because they are too big. The people offering as much as 60% are doing so to gain favours.
  - lucastx 14y ago
    But wasn't the offers anonymous? Maybe it is even worse this way: you get indebted to an unknown person!
    - yk 14y ago
      Probably there is some heuristics at work, which gives the intuition that a too good split is somehow dangerous. (Similar to how people who are afraid of the dark try to avoid both caves and cellars. )
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- markdown 14y ago
  Wait, why would you ever refuse a gift? I don't get that. If someone offered me a dollar out of his million, I'd accept it and be very grateful.
  - recoiledsnake 14y ago
    The game is that if you refuse, the person loses their $999,999.
dspeyer 14y ago
That effect has been studied too, and you're right about the quantity effect. At least in India.

JoshTriplett 14y ago

> If he offered me $100 I would probably walk away. Why? Do you really consider it worth $100 to you just to prevent someone else from getting $9900, or do you just value $100 so little that you are willing to round it down to $0? I can imagine real-world scenarios in which I might spend $100 worth of my time to try to address a problem, especially if I think that problem might affect others. (Scenarios involving an actual $100 seem even less likely, but plausible for a sufficiently egregious wrong.) However, as a game, I'd call it free money no matter the amount; neither player did anything in particular to earn the money other than taking their time to play the game, and I don't see it as even slightly unfair of the first player to offer less money to the second, so I don't see any value in "punishing" the first player. The first player happened to get the better opportunity, and the second player gets to choose between having something or having nothing. In the game version, I'd place zero value on how much the first player gets. Now, if I thought I could bluff the first player via advance communication into believing that I'd reject the offer if less than a certain amount, I'd certainly do it; however, if they called the bluff, I'll take what I can get.

dchmiel 14y ago
Both players are aware that the opportunity comes from just being lucky enough to be chosen to dictate the terms. I know you didn't earn the 10,000 so by you offering 100 dollars and you keeping 9,900 is insulting to some people and they do want to punish the 'lucky' player. It's not that they don't value the money they value punishing them to teach them a lesson at $100. Would your answer be the same if I said I'd keep 9,999,999.99 and gave you only a penny. Would the value of punishing me be so low that now you'd consider to do so, or is it still free money and the absolute value doesn't affect you personally?
- icebraining 14y ago
  One should also consider other implications. If the money came from nothing, I'd probably take the penny; but I'd rather let whoever funded the research keep the money than give it to such an uncharitable person. I know this might destroy the purpose of the experiment, but frankly, they just need to take that into account.
luser001 14y ago
> Why? Do you really consider it worth $100 to you just to prevent someone else from getting $9900, or do you just value $100 so little that you are willing to round it down to $0? Not the original commenter. But yes to both. Look up multi-round games. Strategies fit for single-round games don't work in multi-round ones. Many of our strategies and heuristics are meant for multiround games, which is what most life interactions are. By overanalyzing the experiment and treating it "just" as a experiment, imho, you are actually defeating the point of the experiment. ymmv, just my 2 cents and other disclaimers.
harryh 14y ago
Would you take a penny if you knew the other guy was keeping $9999.99?
- astine 14y ago
  That's not really a fair question. Pennies aren't worth the hassle of having to carry them around. That's like asking if I'd be willing to let the other guy have the money if he offered me effectively nothing.
  - recoiledsnake 14y ago
    Where would you draw the line? 5c, 10c, 50c, $1 or $5?
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
yesbabyyes 14y ago
This is a favorite game of mine and I've given it some thought. I think an alternate formulation might give the typical HN reader new insight in the game. Let's say I tell you I have an idea for a company. It's a really cool idea and if we realize it we will make boatloads of money. I need your help to realize it. If you agree, you will get 20% of the company. If you don't, we won't realize it and neither of us will make any money. Do you accept? If not, why not?
- olivier1664 14y ago
  Maybe yes. Really depends of what can be "boatloads of money" and the current appreciation of realize it. Supposing I have nothing better to do, and that you are a good team mate, I will certainly accept. This means your proposition will be more valuable to a fresh greek student without green card than to an experimented coder at Google.
- DanBC 14y ago
  > Do you accept? If not, why not? Almost no one on HN will agree. (I predict.) Ideas are easy. Even I have ideas. Doing something with the idea is what counts. That starts with programming, but also involves selling product and running the company. So unless the idea-person has a great record of implementing great ideas and good exits people will be unwilling to lumber themselves with a lot of work for so little return.
- sebcat 14y ago
  Not the same game, as there is no cost (time, money) in the original idea to compensate for. In your version you have to work to achieve a goal.

Nursie 14y ago

Wow, that kinda sucks. Do you mean computer-related contracting or in general? Over here in the good-ol UK I set my rate (which the customer knows about) and my agent tries to get as much on top as they can, but AFAICT (and I have relatives who are agents) the split is usually around 80-20. Which is still a lot of cash just for fixing me up with work...

mcguire 14y ago
In Texas, a few years ago, I was getting around 85%. Currently, or in other locations, I don't know. And at my current, government, contractor...I don't even want to think about it.
- brightsize 14y ago
  Look up their GSA schedule. Find your job title. A few years back I was making a little over $100K/yr for an offence contractor and they were billing around 3x that per year for my services.

SatvikBeri 14y ago

Yeah, the relative value of the money matters a lot. To make it even more extreme, if the total was 100 million dollars and I was offered 1 million, I would take it. But if the total was $100 and I was offered $10, I'd probably refuse. The bit about offering more than 60% in gift-giving cultures and having the other player still reject them is surprising. What would explain that?

astine 14y ago
In the article they mentioned later that in gift-giving cultures receiving a gift make one indebted. They are rejecting the offers, not because they are too small, but because they are too big. The people offering as much as 60% are doing so to gain favours.
- lucastx 14y ago
  But wasn't the offers anonymous? Maybe it is even worse this way: you get indebted to an unknown person!
  - yk 14y ago
    Probably there is some heuristics at work, which gives the intuition that a too good split is somehow dangerous. (Similar to how people who are afraid of the dark try to avoid both caves and cellars. )
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
markdown 14y ago
Wait, why would you ever refuse a gift? I don't get that. If someone offered me a dollar out of his million, I'd accept it and be very grateful.
- recoiledsnake 14y ago
  The game is that if you refuse, the person loses their $999,999.

dspeyer 14y ago

That effect has been studied too, and you're right about the quantity effect. At least in India.