5 ms·

People must be pretty on the fence about the car if all it took was one article to sway their opinion into not buying a car. The NYT article did highlight a ma

by blhack 14y ago

People must be pretty on the fence about the car if all it took was one article to sway their opinion into not buying a car. The NYT article did highlight a major problem with electric vehicles: when you get the batteries really cold, their reported charge can be non-reflective of their actual range. I never leave my Jeep overnight and wake up to seeing the gas gauge report only half of what is actually in the tank. If this was a thing that was possible, Jeep would be back to their drawing boards figuring out how to fix it, not chiding a reporter for pointing it out. I hope everybody following this read the NYT reporter's response: http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/that-tesla-data-what-it-says-and-what-it-doesnt/ http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/that-tesla-data-w...

niggler 14y ago
Musk has a convenient scapegoat here. The reality is that we haven't seen really cold weather in a long while here in the NYC metro area, and the NYT article revealed a major issue. Many people believed we wouldn't see such weather in the future, so that risk wasn't on their minds (and as mentioned ad nauseum elsewhere, tesla didn't mention this in any marketing material except for saying that you can leave the car unplugged at the airport). Now having seen cold weather, people are asking what happens, and Musk's response installs little confidence in the Layman's view
jpollock 14y ago
The amount in the tank is entirely different from the range it represents, which is also modified by environmental conditions such as altitude and temperature. The difference between the two situations is the number of places that you can refill the tank. Diesel drivers (in the US), have similar concerns to the electric car driver.
- Someone 14y ago
  The number of places you can, the speed at which you can, the relative frequency at which you have to refill all work against electric cars at the moment. Diesel, AFAIK, is better of in the sense that you can drive farther without refilling. Also, for both petrol and diesel, customers can somewhat reliably estimate how far a tank will carry them. Part of that is experience, but for now, I have the impression that Tesla, with all its electronics, cannot even break even with 'normal' cars at that single measure. They are working hard on refill speed and refill locations and I expect they are working hard on their battery control systems to improve remaining range estimates. I think they need all three to create a viable mass market product.
- drbawb 14y ago
  Their concerns may be similar, but EVs still have it far worse for range anxiety. Diesel drivers have the advantage of their fuel being quite portable once you've found a source. The energy input required to move a diesel truck 100mi. is still pretty portable if you get a ride, no tow required. An EV has to be _moved_ to a charging source; it's very hard to bring energy to the EV in the quality/quantities required.
eksith 14y ago
Except you're comparing apples to oranges. Cold weather pilots never let their aircraft sit outside for too long if they intend to fly within the hour since the fuel starts to gel. They plug in to the hanger if a power source is available or keep the engines running (although that's rather expensive these days). That doesn't mean those aircraft are in any way inferior to their warm weather counterparts. The system is fundamentally different. Different is not inferior. Different means it can't be treated the same way as a fossil fueled vehicle. FYI... The batteries do have heaters to improve efficiency, however that too drains power so a glance at the manual (and some common sense) would have told him to leave it plugged in. A bit like having to run a diesel engine a bit to make sure the fuel won't turn to gel in the lines. I'm not sure if deliberately sabotaged the test drive, but I do think there's some driver naivety (negligence?) at play.
- dba7dba 14y ago
  The reporter boasted of having been a whitehouse correspondence. the place where reporters ask questions carefully because they know asking touch questions at wrong time can can their career. and he did report years ago negatively about ev industry. not exactly sign of an unbiased reporter.
- corresation 14y ago
  A car is not a jet aircraft, and comparing the two does absolutely nothing to help electric cars.
  - eksith 14y ago
    I'm not talking about jet aircraft. I'm talking about Pipers, Cessnas, Aerostars and countless other piston engine aircraft used in general aviation by hundreds of thousands of people.
    - adestefan 14y ago
      The same people also go through a pre-flight checklist that covers all major safety aspects of the plane. When was the last time you saw someone walking around a car with a clipboard before they commute to work in the morning?

by blhack 14y ago

niggler 14y ago

Musk has a convenient scapegoat here. The reality is that we haven't seen really cold weather in a long while here in the NYC metro area, and the NYT article revealed a major issue. Many people believed we wouldn't see such weather in the future, so that risk wasn't on their minds (and as mentioned ad nauseum elsewhere, tesla didn't mention this in any marketing material except for saying that you can leave the car unplugged at the airport). Now having seen cold weather, people are asking what happens, and Musk's response installs little confidence in the Layman's view

jpollock 14y ago

The amount in the tank is entirely different from the range it represents, which is also modified by environmental conditions such as altitude and temperature. The difference between the two situations is the number of places that you can refill the tank. Diesel drivers (in the US), have similar concerns to the electric car driver.

Someone 14y ago
The number of places you can, the speed at which you can, the relative frequency at which you have to refill all work against electric cars at the moment. Diesel, AFAIK, is better of in the sense that you can drive farther without refilling. Also, for both petrol and diesel, customers can somewhat reliably estimate how far a tank will carry them. Part of that is experience, but for now, I have the impression that Tesla, with all its electronics, cannot even break even with 'normal' cars at that single measure. They are working hard on refill speed and refill locations and I expect they are working hard on their battery control systems to improve remaining range estimates. I think they need all three to create a viable mass market product.
drbawb 14y ago
Their concerns may be similar, but EVs still have it far worse for range anxiety. Diesel drivers have the advantage of their fuel being quite portable once you've found a source. The energy input required to move a diesel truck 100mi. is still pretty portable if you get a ride, no tow required. An EV has to be _moved_ to a charging source; it's very hard to bring energy to the EV in the quality/quantities required.

eksith 14y ago

Except you're comparing apples to oranges. Cold weather pilots never let their aircraft sit outside for too long if they intend to fly within the hour since the fuel starts to gel. They plug in to the hanger if a power source is available or keep the engines running (although that's rather expensive these days). That doesn't mean those aircraft are in any way inferior to their warm weather counterparts. The system is fundamentally different. Different is not inferior. Different means it can't be treated the same way as a fossil fueled vehicle. FYI... The batteries do have heaters to improve efficiency, however that too drains power so a glance at the manual (and some common sense) would have told him to leave it plugged in. A bit like having to run a diesel engine a bit to make sure the fuel won't turn to gel in the lines. I'm not sure if deliberately sabotaged the test drive, but I do think there's some driver naivety (negligence?) at play.

dba7dba 14y ago
The reporter boasted of having been a whitehouse correspondence. the place where reporters ask questions carefully because they know asking touch questions at wrong time can can their career. and he did report years ago negatively about ev industry. not exactly sign of an unbiased reporter.
corresation 14y ago
A car is not a jet aircraft, and comparing the two does absolutely nothing to help electric cars.
- eksith 14y ago
  I'm not talking about jet aircraft. I'm talking about Pipers, Cessnas, Aerostars and countless other piston engine aircraft used in general aviation by hundreds of thousands of people.
  - adestefan 14y ago
    The same people also go through a pre-flight checklist that covers all major safety aspects of the plane. When was the last time you saw someone walking around a car with a clipboard before they commute to work in the morning?