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That is pretty awesome... I can't believe how much Bitcoin has grown in the past 6 months. Kicking myself for not investing.

danboarder 14y ago
I agree it's awesome, though I wonder how many approach BTC as an 'investment' rather than a currency to actually use and buy things with?
- eksith 14y ago
  Quite a large number, I'm afraid. I know a few people who keep hundreds to several thousand+ without spending any in anticipation of a massive buyout (or financial collapse). These were very early adopters that ran their vid cards 24/7 for years.
  - danboarder 14y ago
    Perhaps things like this ATM (which looks very simple to use) and user-friendly online tools like Coinbase will serve to expand real-world use and the BTC economy as a whole. It would be awesome to see it become an even more stable international alternative currency.
  - jerguismi 14y ago
    Well, it isn't very rational to collect pile of money and then just sit on it until you die. At some point these early adopters are either going to sell, or use their bitcoins.
    - betterunix 14y ago
      It is perfectly rational when you know that there are deflationary trends with the money. Sitting on it means you are becoming wealthier. Of course, if everyone does this, the currency will collapse, but that is just the beginning of Bitcoin's problems.
      - oleganza 14y ago
        It will not collapse. It's just the price will stabilize.
        betterunix 14y ago
        If nobody is willing to trade a currency, the currency is worthless -- also known as a collapse.
        eru 14y ago
        Why? People are still perfectly willing to buy. Just not willing to sell. That will just lead to higher prices, not collapse.
        betterunix 14y ago
        If nobody is willing to sell, then there is no trade. That makes a currency worthless. Bitcoin is even more vulnerable that gold in that regard, because if Bitcoin stops being used as a currency then there will be no incentive for anyone to run the Bitcoin software -- and then Bitcoin will just die.
        oleganza 14y ago
        You are confusing two causes for "no trading". Collapse will come when no one is willing to buy (e.g. crypto is broken or there is no way to spend/use it). As people anticipate this coming, they'll start selling to anybody who is still willing to buy. The price will drop until no one is willing to buy, at which point the value of commodity will become zero. On the other hand, if many people are willing to buy (in expectation of future increased usefulness), then the price will go up until no one is willing to sell. At which point every holder anticipates some future benefit, cannot buy more from anybody, but has plenty of people willing to buy from him for some price. This situation will stay like that until anyone decides to "use" money by selling it (e.g. to buy a dinner because people need to eat sometimes). No collapse here.
  - josephagoss 14y ago
    The good thing about the price increasing is that the early adopters are more willing to spend BTC and also convert BTC into fiat. This increases the overall value of BTC because as more people who own BTC bought in at a higher price, it will be harder and harder for the price to crash down to levels lower than the average price of BTC purchased. (I argue this based on the psychology of buying BTC at a certain price) Back when the large 2011 crash happened and even now to a slightly lesser degree the average BTC acquired/bought is still low, (i'd wager around $5 for the entire network of BTC still accessible, as a example) As more earlies sell and purchase items, this average will increase, and as it does the possibility for BTC to fall below this average becomes harder and harder.
    - eksith 14y ago
      I remember that crash. A couple of those people were freaking out. And I think your price estimate is correct. I'd much rather they start spending them within the BTC economy than cashing in for "real" currency instead. The biggest hurdle for BTC isn't even the hoarding, it's that they hoard just because it's still not seen as a real alternative by most folks so they're waiting for the "realization, spike" in prices (I don't think we're there yet). Few people these days actually hoard cash; instead, they invest in commodities or companies. But these people are hoarding for the value of the currency itself. It's like gold all over again. I must confess though, the first time I heard about BTC, I did take it for just a very elaborate ponzi scheme. The irony is that the hoarding may, if left unchecked, turn it into exactly that.
- vidyesh 14y ago
  One of the reasons its getting difficult these days to buy BTCs. Such ATMs would definitely help a lot. The thing is as of now people are still learning to accept it as a currency, once they do the market would be huge to trade/buy/sell things via BTC.
- oleganza 14y ago
  The more people buying up bitcoins, the bigger the price is, the more early buyers sell some portion of their stash, the more bitcoins dissolve into the market. If at some point, everybody who wanted to invest, already done so, the price will stop rising. Some guys will sell, some others will buy more and realize that now much more people own some bitcoins and are ready to participate in exchange. Therefore, "investors" build a market among themselves as a side effect of "hoarding". And since there will be non-zero amount of people willing to exchange directly rather than sell, the price will rise further, attracting even more people. And so on until everybody who needs BTC gets some. And then nobody would need fiat.
vidyesh 14y ago
6 months ago when people were investing in hardware to start mining. I laughed off thinking, bitcoin's surge is gonna go down. But now I want to invest, waiting for a dip so I could buy some BTCs. Also considering mining.
- cryowaffle 14y ago
  Heh, we (miner community) were selling out Newegg of GPUs 18 months ago. If you were just getting in 6 months ago you might as well just buy bitcoins and store them.
  - vidyesh 14y ago
    I genuinely got interested in bitcoins 12 months ago or so. But at that time it just looked like something exciting and mining looked not that profitable. The break even looked very far to reach. I always kept an eye on bitcoins. A few months ago when it looked really serious I still waited. And now it looks profitable to mine and invest. Many say I'm too late to mine, many say its still not late.
    - cryowaffle 14y ago
      You have to define our purpose if you want to discuss whether it's too late or not. 1) If you want to mine as way obtaining bitcoins to hold then it's literally never too late. Bitcoin could crash or go to $1,000,000,000 2) If you wanted to mine them to sell for an immediate profit then it is simply too late.

danboarder 14y ago

I agree it's awesome, though I wonder how many approach BTC as an 'investment' rather than a currency to actually use and buy things with?

eksith 14y ago
Quite a large number, I'm afraid. I know a few people who keep hundreds to several thousand+ without spending any in anticipation of a massive buyout (or financial collapse). These were very early adopters that ran their vid cards 24/7 for years.
- danboarder 14y ago
  Perhaps things like this ATM (which looks very simple to use) and user-friendly online tools like Coinbase will serve to expand real-world use and the BTC economy as a whole. It would be awesome to see it become an even more stable international alternative currency.
- jerguismi 14y ago
  Well, it isn't very rational to collect pile of money and then just sit on it until you die. At some point these early adopters are either going to sell, or use their bitcoins.
  - betterunix 14y ago
    It is perfectly rational when you know that there are deflationary trends with the money. Sitting on it means you are becoming wealthier. Of course, if everyone does this, the currency will collapse, but that is just the beginning of Bitcoin's problems.
    - oleganza 14y ago
      It will not collapse. It's just the price will stabilize.
      - betterunix 14y ago
        If nobody is willing to trade a currency, the currency is worthless -- also known as a collapse.
        eru 14y ago
        Why? People are still perfectly willing to buy. Just not willing to sell. That will just lead to higher prices, not collapse.
        betterunix 14y ago
        If nobody is willing to sell, then there is no trade. That makes a currency worthless. Bitcoin is even more vulnerable that gold in that regard, because if Bitcoin stops being used as a currency then there will be no incentive for anyone to run the Bitcoin software -- and then Bitcoin will just die.
        oleganza 14y ago
        You are confusing two causes for "no trading". Collapse will come when no one is willing to buy (e.g. crypto is broken or there is no way to spend/use it). As people anticipate this coming, they'll start selling to anybody who is still willing to buy. The price will drop until no one is willing to buy, at which point the value of commodity will become zero. On the other hand, if many people are willing to buy (in expectation of future increased usefulness), then the price will go up until no one is willing to sell. At which point every holder anticipates some future benefit, cannot buy more from anybody, but has plenty of people willing to buy from him for some price. This situation will stay like that until anyone decides to "use" money by selling it (e.g. to buy a dinner because people need to eat sometimes). No collapse here.
- josephagoss 14y ago
  The good thing about the price increasing is that the early adopters are more willing to spend BTC and also convert BTC into fiat. This increases the overall value of BTC because as more people who own BTC bought in at a higher price, it will be harder and harder for the price to crash down to levels lower than the average price of BTC purchased. (I argue this based on the psychology of buying BTC at a certain price) Back when the large 2011 crash happened and even now to a slightly lesser degree the average BTC acquired/bought is still low, (i'd wager around $5 for the entire network of BTC still accessible, as a example) As more earlies sell and purchase items, this average will increase, and as it does the possibility for BTC to fall below this average becomes harder and harder.
  - eksith 14y ago
    I remember that crash. A couple of those people were freaking out. And I think your price estimate is correct. I'd much rather they start spending them within the BTC economy than cashing in for "real" currency instead. The biggest hurdle for BTC isn't even the hoarding, it's that they hoard just because it's still not seen as a real alternative by most folks so they're waiting for the "realization, spike" in prices (I don't think we're there yet). Few people these days actually hoard cash; instead, they invest in commodities or companies. But these people are hoarding for the value of the currency itself. It's like gold all over again. I must confess though, the first time I heard about BTC, I did take it for just a very elaborate ponzi scheme. The irony is that the hoarding may, if left unchecked, turn it into exactly that.
vidyesh 14y ago
One of the reasons its getting difficult these days to buy BTCs. Such ATMs would definitely help a lot. The thing is as of now people are still learning to accept it as a currency, once they do the market would be huge to trade/buy/sell things via BTC.
oleganza 14y ago
The more people buying up bitcoins, the bigger the price is, the more early buyers sell some portion of their stash, the more bitcoins dissolve into the market. If at some point, everybody who wanted to invest, already done so, the price will stop rising. Some guys will sell, some others will buy more and realize that now much more people own some bitcoins and are ready to participate in exchange. Therefore, "investors" build a market among themselves as a side effect of "hoarding". And since there will be non-zero amount of people willing to exchange directly rather than sell, the price will rise further, attracting even more people. And so on until everybody who needs BTC gets some. And then nobody would need fiat.

vidyesh 14y ago

6 months ago when people were investing in hardware to start mining. I laughed off thinking, bitcoin's surge is gonna go down. But now I want to invest, waiting for a dip so I could buy some BTCs. Also considering mining.

cryowaffle 14y ago
Heh, we (miner community) were selling out Newegg of GPUs 18 months ago. If you were just getting in 6 months ago you might as well just buy bitcoins and store them.
- vidyesh 14y ago
  I genuinely got interested in bitcoins 12 months ago or so. But at that time it just looked like something exciting and mining looked not that profitable. The break even looked very far to reach. I always kept an eye on bitcoins. A few months ago when it looked really serious I still waited. And now it looks profitable to mine and invest. Many say I'm too late to mine, many say its still not late.
  - cryowaffle 14y ago
    You have to define our purpose if you want to discuss whether it's too late or not. 1) If you want to mine as way obtaining bitcoins to hold then it's literally never too late. Bitcoin could crash or go to $1,000,000,000 2) If you wanted to mine them to sell for an immediate profit then it is simply too late.