7 ms·

What if everything you know is wrong?

50 points by gruseom 14y ago

lifeisstillgood 14y ago
Whaddaya mean if ?
randomchars 14y ago
I wonder which current conspiracy theories will turn out to be true.
e3pi 14y ago
Last lines: "A brilliant op, clearly." "...Not to mention the irony noted by many that both Kurras and the radicals his criminal act gave birth to in the form of terrorism, were under the control of the Stasi. A brilliant op, clearly. And a good reminder that some things are not quite what they seem to be." If this be a brilliant op, why aren't there Kurras copycats at our newsworthy protests gatherings? Say for example, at last year's Occupy Movement, a `double-agent' NYC cop shoots a young anti-capitalist on Wall Street, or a banker is similarly murdered by an ancap, could it be today the `blowback' has proven to become indeterminate, counterproductive, and recklessly dangerous for any interest considering criminal foment?
- silvestrov 14y ago
  Because that action would help no one in power. The shooting of Benno Ohnesorg helped an existing power which had a long tradition of successful CI.
martinced 14y ago
"The man that Germany’s baby boomers loathed as the archetype of fascism, a living symbol of the evil Nazi-ish past, actually was a Stasi hero, a loyal servant of Communism" Two sides of the exact same coin. Hitler himself repeatedly stated that communists would make perfect nazis once he'd have conquered russia. National socialism and communism really aren't that far apart: Hitler did adopt 8 of Marx's ten major points of communism. That an ex-nazi in free western germany would actually be a Stasi agent is really not surprising at all. These kind of person are the ennemy of freedom and the ennemy of individual liberties. They'll do anything they can to work for an ever bigger and ever more restrictive state. Socialists refuse to admit that national socialism was actually an ideology from left and keep telling that if Hitler was allied with Italy and Japan nazis were right-wing fascist. But that logic has its limits. Statism is statism. Planned economy is planned economy. An article like this one only reinforce the notion that what I know is not wrong: communism and national-socialism are two sides of the same coin. Hitler wanted to rule alone, hence his wish to annihilate Stalin and to convert russians into nazis. But it's not because Hitler wanted to replace Stalin that nazism suddenly becomes a free-market, liberal, ideology where individual liberties would be the most important thing.
- raphael_kimmig 14y ago
  > Socialists refuse to admit that national socialism was actually an ideology from left Sounds great if you don't let facts get in the way of your world view. Communists, socialists and social democrats (read: the left) where fighting the Nazis in the streets before Hitler even came to power, they were the ones who openly resisted in parliament and they were the first to be cast into concentration camps when Hitler came to power. All while the right readily embraced the Führer...
  - Turing_Machine 14y ago
    "Communists, socialists and social democrats (read: the left) where fighting the Nazis in the streets before Hitler even came to power" Sorry, that's not persuasive. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives Internecine wars are always the most bloody. Ask the ghost of Leon Trotsky, or are you going to argue that he wasn't a communist? Maybe Ernst Röhm wasn't a Nazi?
    - rmk2 14y ago
      This is utter bullshit. It is hardly a war if only one side is doing all the murdering, incarcerating and driving people into exile. The political right had a long history of political murder and prosecution all throughout the Weimar Republic, long before 1933, which just intensified afterwards. The murders auf Jaurès in France, of Luxemburg and Liebknecht in Berlin, Eisner in Munich, the extrajudicial killings (and subsequent dismissed court cases) by various Freikorps were all aimed at leftist activists. The expatriation lists of the German Reich were also further acts against the political left, especially its intellectuals and journalists. Ossietzky's incarceration and Tucholsky's exile were further indicators, alongside the exile of many other prominent intellectuals, among them Brecht, Adorno, Horkheimer, Benjamin (whose suicide is a direct consequence), Marcuse, the Manns, A. Zweig, S. Zweig and many, many more. The National Socialists were from the very get-go utterly opposed to any form of leftist political activity, and many paid the price.
nacker 14y ago
The more information is available, the more conspiracy theories are found to be true. Here are 33 of them: http://www.infowars.com/33-conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-true-what-every-person-should-know/ http://www.infowars.com/33-conspiracy-theories-that-turned-o... And before anyone sniffs about linking to Infowars, let me ask you, looking back 15 years, who was right in predicting our current dystopia, Alex Jones, or his critics? ' "Conspiracy theory" is usually used as a pejorative label, meaning paranoid, nutty, marginal, and certainly untrue. The power of this pejorative is that it discounts a theory by attacking the motivations and mental competence of those who advocate the theory. By labeling an explanation of events "conspiracy theory," evidence and argument are dismissed because they come from a mentally or morally deficient personality, not because they have been shown to be incorrect. Calling an explanation of events "conspiracy theory" means, in effect, "We don't like you, and no one should listen to your explanation." In earlier eras other pejorative labels, such as "heresy," "witchery," and "communism" also worked like this. The charge of "conspiracy theory" is not so severe as these other labels, but in its way is many times worse. Heresy, witchcraft, and communism at least retain some sense of potency. They designate ideas to be feared. "Conspiracy theory" implies that the ideas and their advocates are simple-minded or insane. ' http://www.newdemocracyworld.org/old/conspiracy.htm http://www.newdemocracyworld.org/old/conspiracy.htm Many conspiracies which have been irrefutably exposed continue to operate, simply because the majority of people dislike acknowledging uncomfortable facts - for example, Operation Gladio: http://www.corbettreport.com/mp3/episode256-lq.mp3 http://www.corbettreport.com/mp3/episode256-lq.mp3
- CodeCube 14y ago
  Current Dystopia?? I don't know where you live ... but if you're in the US (and the kind of person that would frequent this site) I assume that what you are living in is far from a dystopia. Let's keep some perspective in the conversation please.
  - nacker 14y ago
    Born in the US, left permanently in 2007. The US is absolutely a dystopia. Opening your eyes helps perspective: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/02/constitution.html http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/02/constitution.html
sbirchall 14y ago
One interesting book I picked up a few years ago and dip in and out of from time to time seems of relevance here: Everything you know IS Wrong[1]... a somewhat hyperbolic title and read at the best of times, but it's always got me thinking at least. One of the articles (it's a collection of such by many authors) claimed that the caricature of "Hannibal Lecter" was in fact an overt cover for actual events (ritualistic murder and the occult) which seem to be linked to the super rich and powerful and may have had links to the Vatican. I'm not saying anything is true or not, but those that like the fringe thinking that Conspiracy Theories (non pejorative) incline one towards may like this book. [1: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Everything-Know-Wrong-Disinformation-ebook/dp/B0042RUF7A/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1361797540&sr=8-2 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Everything-Know-Wrong-Disinformation...]

50 points by gruseom 14y ago

lifeisstillgood 14y ago

Whaddaya mean if ?

randomchars 14y ago

I wonder which current conspiracy theories will turn out to be true.

e3pi 14y ago

Last lines: "A brilliant op, clearly." "...Not to mention the irony noted by many that both Kurras and the radicals his criminal act gave birth to in the form of terrorism, were under the control of the Stasi. A brilliant op, clearly. And a good reminder that some things are not quite what they seem to be." If this be a brilliant op, why aren't there Kurras copycats at our newsworthy protests gatherings? Say for example, at last year's Occupy Movement, a `double-agent' NYC cop shoots a young anti-capitalist on Wall Street, or a banker is similarly murdered by an ancap, could it be today the `blowback' has proven to become indeterminate, counterproductive, and recklessly dangerous for any interest considering criminal foment?

silvestrov 14y ago
Because that action would help no one in power. The shooting of Benno Ohnesorg helped an existing power which had a long tradition of successful CI.

martinced 14y ago

"The man that Germany’s baby boomers loathed as the archetype of fascism, a living symbol of the evil Nazi-ish past, actually was a Stasi hero, a loyal servant of Communism" Two sides of the exact same coin. Hitler himself repeatedly stated that communists would make perfect nazis once he'd have conquered russia. National socialism and communism really aren't that far apart: Hitler did adopt 8 of Marx's ten major points of communism. That an ex-nazi in free western germany would actually be a Stasi agent is really not surprising at all. These kind of person are the ennemy of freedom and the ennemy of individual liberties. They'll do anything they can to work for an ever bigger and ever more restrictive state. Socialists refuse to admit that national socialism was actually an ideology from left and keep telling that if Hitler was allied with Italy and Japan nazis were right-wing fascist. But that logic has its limits. Statism is statism. Planned economy is planned economy. An article like this one only reinforce the notion that what I know is not wrong: communism and national-socialism are two sides of the same coin. Hitler wanted to rule alone, hence his wish to annihilate Stalin and to convert russians into nazis. But it's not because Hitler wanted to replace Stalin that nazism suddenly becomes a free-market, liberal, ideology where individual liberties would be the most important thing.

raphael_kimmig 14y ago
> Socialists refuse to admit that national socialism was actually an ideology from left Sounds great if you don't let facts get in the way of your world view. Communists, socialists and social democrats (read: the left) where fighting the Nazis in the streets before Hitler even came to power, they were the ones who openly resisted in parliament and they were the first to be cast into concentration camps when Hitler came to power. All while the right readily embraced the Führer...
- Turing_Machine 14y ago
  "Communists, socialists and social democrats (read: the left) where fighting the Nazis in the streets before Hitler even came to power" Sorry, that's not persuasive. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives Internecine wars are always the most bloody. Ask the ghost of Leon Trotsky, or are you going to argue that he wasn't a communist? Maybe Ernst Röhm wasn't a Nazi?
  - rmk2 14y ago
    This is utter bullshit. It is hardly a war if only one side is doing all the murdering, incarcerating and driving people into exile. The political right had a long history of political murder and prosecution all throughout the Weimar Republic, long before 1933, which just intensified afterwards. The murders auf Jaurès in France, of Luxemburg and Liebknecht in Berlin, Eisner in Munich, the extrajudicial killings (and subsequent dismissed court cases) by various Freikorps were all aimed at leftist activists. The expatriation lists of the German Reich were also further acts against the political left, especially its intellectuals and journalists. Ossietzky's incarceration and Tucholsky's exile were further indicators, alongside the exile of many other prominent intellectuals, among them Brecht, Adorno, Horkheimer, Benjamin (whose suicide is a direct consequence), Marcuse, the Manns, A. Zweig, S. Zweig and many, many more. The National Socialists were from the very get-go utterly opposed to any form of leftist political activity, and many paid the price.

nacker 14y ago

The more information is available, the more conspiracy theories are found to be true. Here are 33 of them: http://www.infowars.com/33-conspiracy-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-true-what-every-person-should-know/ http://www.infowars.com/33-conspiracy-theories-that-turned-o... And before anyone sniffs about linking to Infowars, let me ask you, looking back 15 years, who was right in predicting our current dystopia, Alex Jones, or his critics? ' "Conspiracy theory" is usually used as a pejorative label, meaning paranoid, nutty, marginal, and certainly untrue. The power of this pejorative is that it discounts a theory by attacking the motivations and mental competence of those who advocate the theory. By labeling an explanation of events "conspiracy theory," evidence and argument are dismissed because they come from a mentally or morally deficient personality, not because they have been shown to be incorrect. Calling an explanation of events "conspiracy theory" means, in effect, "We don't like you, and no one should listen to your explanation." In earlier eras other pejorative labels, such as "heresy," "witchery," and "communism" also worked like this. The charge of "conspiracy theory" is not so severe as these other labels, but in its way is many times worse. Heresy, witchcraft, and communism at least retain some sense of potency. They designate ideas to be feared. "Conspiracy theory" implies that the ideas and their advocates are simple-minded or insane. ' http://www.newdemocracyworld.org/old/conspiracy.htm http://www.newdemocracyworld.org/old/conspiracy.htm Many conspiracies which have been irrefutably exposed continue to operate, simply because the majority of people dislike acknowledging uncomfortable facts - for example, Operation Gladio: http://www.corbettreport.com/mp3/episode256-lq.mp3 http://www.corbettreport.com/mp3/episode256-lq.mp3

CodeCube 14y ago
Current Dystopia?? I don't know where you live ... but if you're in the US (and the kind of person that would frequent this site) I assume that what you are living in is far from a dystopia. Let's keep some perspective in the conversation please.
- nacker 14y ago
  Born in the US, left permanently in 2007. The US is absolutely a dystopia. Opening your eyes helps perspective: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/02/constitution.html http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/02/constitution.html

sbirchall 14y ago

One interesting book I picked up a few years ago and dip in and out of from time to time seems of relevance here: Everything you know IS Wrong[1]... a somewhat hyperbolic title and read at the best of times, but it's always got me thinking at least. One of the articles (it's a collection of such by many authors) claimed that the caricature of "Hannibal Lecter" was in fact an overt cover for actual events (ritualistic murder and the occult) which seem to be linked to the super rich and powerful and may have had links to the Vatican. I'm not saying anything is true or not, but those that like the fringe thinking that Conspiracy Theories (non pejorative) incline one towards may like this book. [1: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Everything-Know-Wrong-Disinformation-ebook/dp/B0042RUF7A/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1361797540&sr=8-2 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Everything-Know-Wrong-Disinformation...]