5 ms·

The conclusion I draw from everything I've heard is that the Surface Pro is a terrible iPad and an excellent PC laptop. Issues like the battery life, heat, weig

The conclusion I draw from everything I've heard is that the Surface Pro is a terrible iPad and an excellent PC laptop. Issues like the battery life, heat, weight, RAM free, and so on are reasonable for a Windows machine. If my perspective is correct, look for the Surface Pro to cannibalize sales from MS's "partners." I do expect it to appeal to the kind of person who buys a PC laptop and an iPad. And that's a great market for MS to defend. But for people who want just a tablet, I expect iPads to carry on selling by the container. If Microsoft's vision of everyone needing a computer is correct, the Surface pro will destroy the laptop. But if Apple's vision of a "post-PC" world is correct, the vast majority of the tablet market will be just tablets, and the iPad will continue to thrive. It all seems to come down to whether you think of tablets as weak computers with a tablet interface or whether you think of them as an appliances that run software.

jacquesm 14y ago
It's been a while since the tablet market was defined as 'iPad'.
- raganwald 14y ago
  I didn't say that, what I said was that Apple's vision is that there's a market for tablets and that iPad will thrive as long as there's a market for tablets. Thrive as in 90%? 70%? 40%? 320% but 50% of the profit? Who knows. But I don't define the tablet market as iPad and only iPad. And it's possible that Apple is wrong and that there isn't a tablet market. Maybe it's just that PCs suck so much, but given time and innovation we'll all end up with really lightweight PCs that have tablet interfaces. This might just be a phase, just as PDAs were a phase until smartphones subsumed their functionality.
  - tripzilch 14y ago
    > the Surface Pro is a terrible iPad and an excellent PC laptop Or maybe the iPad is a terrible Surface Pro :-P But seriously: > Maybe it's just that PCs suck so much, but given time and innovation we'll all end up with really lightweight PCs that have tablet interfaces. Maybe given time and innovation we'll all end up with really open iPads that you don't need to pay for the privilege to run your code on and have touch screens actually deserving of the name "tablet" (meaning you can draw on them). That would be awesome because those actually are the two main things like to do on my computer, coding and drawing :) But with the iPad's battery life and (lack of) heat. It will also have an eInk screen on the back, and a programmable strip of LEDs on the sides. Also a strong, retractable piece of string loop, for if you're in a pinch and you need a wall clock, lamp or as a painting: when you're done working, set it to the "HOME SWEET HOME" screensaver on the eInk side, and hang it on the wall. Anyone got an idea of how to work a 3D printer into a tablet? Cause we need those, too. (so that cybercriminals can infect it with a virus that makes it build legs and walk away into the thief's hands) (and people will still be complaining "if this is the future, where's our flying cars??!")
    - protomyth 14y ago
      > Maybe given time and innovation we'll all end up with really open iPads that you don't need to pay for the privilege to run your code on Given the policies of Apple and Microsoft, I doubt it. Further, I would imagine that more and more machines will be locked down because security is now more important, generates link-bait headlines, and "failures" of security / privacy get your CEO dragged in front a congressional committee.
      - beernutz 14y ago
        I am pretty sure you can install anything you want on the Surface Pro, and from any source you like. The Surface RT is locked down, but not the Pro as i understand it.
        protomyth 14y ago
        If you use the new API you must distribute through their app store.
  - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
    I think it is important that recognize that neither company here has a "vision" at all. Both companies are just attempting to steer computing in the direction of the thing that they have been most (financially) successful with. For Microsoft, it's PCs, for Apple it's devices.
p3rs3us 14y ago
Personally I would go for single device that does everything I need. Something on the lines of what Ubuntu is doing. Even Surface to an extent solves this issue. I don't want to carry an iPhone to call/msg/listen to music, an iPad to casually use internet/read/play games and a laptop for everything else. Better carry one phone which does call/msg/music/internet,reading and minor editing/office stuffs when plugged to dock.
- DeepDuh 14y ago
  After owning an iPad mini I have to say that an as-light-as-possible 7'' tablet appears to be one more device that's very useful have / bring along. It allows you reading / media consumption on a device with a satisfying screen size that's as light as a medium paperback book, i.e. you can hold it for extended periods without getting tired.
- tomrod 14y ago
  So an Ubuntu phone?
ohwp 14y ago
"Issues like the battery life, heat, weight, RAM free, and so on are reasonable for a Windows machine." Common, this is so childish... As if other devices don't get hot and don't weight that much. You are very wrong in thinking that company X will take over the world. There are different people with different needs. Hipsters like hip devices, cartoonists like Surface Pro's. jacquesm points it out: the iPad market might still be the biggest but it's not the only market.
- raganwald 14y ago
  Childish? I feel old, stuck in world where HN was civil and we didn't abuse each other with accusations of childishness. I own an iPad and an iPad Mini. Neither has ever run so hot that it was uncomfortable to place on my lap. The review specifically states that he did experience it running too hot for his comfort. I read that the surface pro is 2 lbs, while a full-sized iPad is less than 1.5 lbs. Nowhere did I state that company X, Y or Z will take over the world. In fact, I stated that the market for people who want a laptop and a tablet may be wll-served by the Surface Pro rather than a laptop plus a tablet. Are you responding to my actual comment? Or are you reflexively responding to me as if I was saying things that other people are saying?
  - ohwp 14y ago
    "Childish?" I was abusing you of a childish reaction because I think your tone towards Windows systems is unfair. "Nowhere did I state that company X, Y or Z will take over the world." No you didn't but you made it clear that you think only Apple can serve the tablet market because you explicitly mention the iPad all the time. You also compared Microsoft's vision vs Apple's vision as if these are the only two companies in the tablet/laptop market. "Are you responding to my actual comment? Or are you reflexively responding to me as if I was saying things that other people are saying?" I was responding to your actual comment and I think you also are saying things that other people are saying. But that didn't trigger a reflex ;) I responded because I don't agree with you. I think a comparison between 2 companies is wrong because it's not what matters in the real world. There are a lot of different devices serving different needs. I don't think the laptop or desktop will go away any time soon because they are still very relevant.
InclinedPlane 14y ago
Both visions are likely correct, to a degree. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that a "post-PC" world is one without keyboards and mice or open platforms. However, there are obviously many fundamental improvements to personal computing that have been made in the mobile space (multi-touch UI, fully OS managed application lifecycles, simplified visual elements, etc.) but the idea that the way the iPad happens to work today should be the model for all future computing is a bit ridiculous.
spqr 14y ago
To me it comes down to the fact that the Surface Pro does everything that the iPad can do plus it runs everything our desktop can run (games, work applications). Oh and you can pop a 64 GB memory card into it to boost its storage. Expect this thing to gather momentum once people see early adopters playing real games on this thing. Will start having a lot of people with iPad regret.
IheartApplesDix 14y ago
which isn't such a bad thing, if you ask me. I own a iPad, for some time now, and I still have yet to find anything that it's good at. Saying it's bad at not having a clear function or productive use, support for real computing tasks. I'm sure some companies would love to see a world where we all access the cloud from iThinClients, but the reality of the situation is that even if the US had great broadband connectivity, nobody wants to deal with 5-200ms of UI lag or with glitchy client-prediction methods.
wisty 14y ago
> If Microsoft's vision of everyone needing a computer is correct, the Surface pro will destroy the laptop. But if Apple's vision of a "post-PC" world is correct, the vast majority of the tablet market will be just tablets, and the iPad will continue to thrive. That's the reason why MS should be willing to spend a boat-load of money on backing the Surface - if they can't create a post-PC world ruled by x86 devices, they are in serious trouble.

jacquesm 14y ago

It's been a while since the tablet market was defined as 'iPad'.

raganwald 14y ago
I didn't say that, what I said was that Apple's vision is that there's a market for tablets and that iPad will thrive as long as there's a market for tablets. Thrive as in 90%? 70%? 40%? 320% but 50% of the profit? Who knows. But I don't define the tablet market as iPad and only iPad. And it's possible that Apple is wrong and that there isn't a tablet market. Maybe it's just that PCs suck so much, but given time and innovation we'll all end up with really lightweight PCs that have tablet interfaces. This might just be a phase, just as PDAs were a phase until smartphones subsumed their functionality.
- tripzilch 14y ago
  > the Surface Pro is a terrible iPad and an excellent PC laptop Or maybe the iPad is a terrible Surface Pro :-P But seriously: > Maybe it's just that PCs suck so much, but given time and innovation we'll all end up with really lightweight PCs that have tablet interfaces. Maybe given time and innovation we'll all end up with really open iPads that you don't need to pay for the privilege to run your code on and have touch screens actually deserving of the name "tablet" (meaning you can draw on them). That would be awesome because those actually are the two main things like to do on my computer, coding and drawing :) But with the iPad's battery life and (lack of) heat. It will also have an eInk screen on the back, and a programmable strip of LEDs on the sides. Also a strong, retractable piece of string loop, for if you're in a pinch and you need a wall clock, lamp or as a painting: when you're done working, set it to the "HOME SWEET HOME" screensaver on the eInk side, and hang it on the wall. Anyone got an idea of how to work a 3D printer into a tablet? Cause we need those, too. (so that cybercriminals can infect it with a virus that makes it build legs and walk away into the thief's hands) (and people will still be complaining "if this is the future, where's our flying cars??!")
  - protomyth 14y ago
    > Maybe given time and innovation we'll all end up with really open iPads that you don't need to pay for the privilege to run your code on Given the policies of Apple and Microsoft, I doubt it. Further, I would imagine that more and more machines will be locked down because security is now more important, generates link-bait headlines, and "failures" of security / privacy get your CEO dragged in front a congressional committee.
    - beernutz 14y ago
      I am pretty sure you can install anything you want on the Surface Pro, and from any source you like. The Surface RT is locked down, but not the Pro as i understand it.
      - protomyth 14y ago
        If you use the new API you must distribute through their app store.
- MatthewPhillips 14y ago
  I think it is important that recognize that neither company here has a "vision" at all. Both companies are just attempting to steer computing in the direction of the thing that they have been most (financially) successful with. For Microsoft, it's PCs, for Apple it's devices.

p3rs3us 14y ago

Personally I would go for single device that does everything I need. Something on the lines of what Ubuntu is doing. Even Surface to an extent solves this issue. I don't want to carry an iPhone to call/msg/listen to music, an iPad to casually use internet/read/play games and a laptop for everything else. Better carry one phone which does call/msg/music/internet,reading and minor editing/office stuffs when plugged to dock.

DeepDuh 14y ago
After owning an iPad mini I have to say that an as-light-as-possible 7'' tablet appears to be one more device that's very useful have / bring along. It allows you reading / media consumption on a device with a satisfying screen size that's as light as a medium paperback book, i.e. you can hold it for extended periods without getting tired.
tomrod 14y ago
So an Ubuntu phone?

ohwp 14y ago

"Issues like the battery life, heat, weight, RAM free, and so on are reasonable for a Windows machine." Common, this is so childish... As if other devices don't get hot and don't weight that much. You are very wrong in thinking that company X will take over the world. There are different people with different needs. Hipsters like hip devices, cartoonists like Surface Pro's. jacquesm points it out: the iPad market might still be the biggest but it's not the only market.

raganwald 14y ago
Childish? I feel old, stuck in world where HN was civil and we didn't abuse each other with accusations of childishness. I own an iPad and an iPad Mini. Neither has ever run so hot that it was uncomfortable to place on my lap. The review specifically states that he did experience it running too hot for his comfort. I read that the surface pro is 2 lbs, while a full-sized iPad is less than 1.5 lbs. Nowhere did I state that company X, Y or Z will take over the world. In fact, I stated that the market for people who want a laptop and a tablet may be wll-served by the Surface Pro rather than a laptop plus a tablet. Are you responding to my actual comment? Or are you reflexively responding to me as if I was saying things that other people are saying?
- ohwp 14y ago
  "Childish?" I was abusing you of a childish reaction because I think your tone towards Windows systems is unfair. "Nowhere did I state that company X, Y or Z will take over the world." No you didn't but you made it clear that you think only Apple can serve the tablet market because you explicitly mention the iPad all the time. You also compared Microsoft's vision vs Apple's vision as if these are the only two companies in the tablet/laptop market. "Are you responding to my actual comment? Or are you reflexively responding to me as if I was saying things that other people are saying?" I was responding to your actual comment and I think you also are saying things that other people are saying. But that didn't trigger a reflex ;) I responded because I don't agree with you. I think a comparison between 2 companies is wrong because it's not what matters in the real world. There are a lot of different devices serving different needs. I don't think the laptop or desktop will go away any time soon because they are still very relevant.

InclinedPlane 14y ago

Both visions are likely correct, to a degree. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that a "post-PC" world is one without keyboards and mice or open platforms. However, there are obviously many fundamental improvements to personal computing that have been made in the mobile space (multi-touch UI, fully OS managed application lifecycles, simplified visual elements, etc.) but the idea that the way the iPad happens to work today should be the model for all future computing is a bit ridiculous.

spqr 14y ago

To me it comes down to the fact that the Surface Pro does everything that the iPad can do plus it runs everything our desktop can run (games, work applications). Oh and you can pop a 64 GB memory card into it to boost its storage. Expect this thing to gather momentum once people see early adopters playing real games on this thing. Will start having a lot of people with iPad regret.

IheartApplesDix 14y ago

which isn't such a bad thing, if you ask me. I own a iPad, for some time now, and I still have yet to find anything that it's good at. Saying it's bad at not having a clear function or productive use, support for real computing tasks. I'm sure some companies would love to see a world where we all access the cloud from iThinClients, but the reality of the situation is that even if the US had great broadband connectivity, nobody wants to deal with 5-200ms of UI lag or with glitchy client-prediction methods.

wisty 14y ago

> If Microsoft's vision of everyone needing a computer is correct, the Surface pro will destroy the laptop. But if Apple's vision of a "post-PC" world is correct, the vast majority of the tablet market will be just tablets, and the iPad will continue to thrive. That's the reason why MS should be willing to spend a boat-load of money on backing the Surface - if they can't create a post-PC world ruled by x86 devices, they are in serious trouble.