6 ms·

I had stomach issues for 32 years and tried everything to resolve the issue. I was tested for celiac, among other things, but the results came back negative. Fi

by mjfern 14y ago

I had stomach issues for 32 years and tried everything to resolve the issue. I was tested for celiac, among other things, but the results came back negative. Finally I decided to try a gluten free diet. I threw away everything in my kitchen that contained gluten and started from scratch. The results were dramatic. Within about 7-10 days most of the issues dissipated and my stomach was 80-90% improved. Stomach issues no longer interfere with my life. Do I miss eating bread, spaghetti, desserts, etc that contain gluten? Sure. But it's a small price to pay for not being uncomfortable for 8-10 hours a day. Besides, you can now find excellent gluten free products at trader joe's, whole foods, and just general grocery stores (even bread, spaghetti, that tastes like the real thing). I'm not a doctor and take this advice with a grain of salt, but if you're experiencing persistent and long term stomach issues and you've been to a GI doctor and ruled out other causes (like celiac) then you might try a gluten free diet to assess whether you have gluten intolerance. It's a bit of a hassle at first, but the benefits are well worth it, should this solve your problems.

jaggederest 14y ago
You know, it may work for you, but it's probably no more than (and no less than!) placebo. Somatic gastrointestinal issues are very common, and are often resolved by placebo treatment. You can't tell unless you're in the context of a real study that uses blinding to tease out the placebo effect. I find it fairly absurd that so many people suddenly feel better when they stop eating gluten (poorly, might I add, if you monitor most gluten-free diets they're a complete failure) this decade. Is it just recently that everyone has started having issues?
- scarecrowbob 14y ago
  If your standard for differentiating between placebo and "real" effects is participation in a "real" study, you've by definition eliminated pretty much all introspection as a source of data about ones body. Although you might find it absurd that folks are feeling better from a dietary modification that hasn't been around for a long while, I find it equally strange to dismiss out of hand the lived experience of "so many people".
  - bane 14y ago
    People are surprisingly incompetent when it comes self identifying and describe symptoms as well as self monitoring disease progression (people here includes doctors). That's precisely why the placebo effect exists. For example, what would you bet that most people describing improvement on a glutenfree diet are merely experiencing the benefits of an overall healthier diet that has little to nothing to do with their gluten intake and has everything to do with them not eating half a pizza twice a week.
    - omegant 14y ago
      Surprisingly scientists are not that good either... http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124 http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal... Also the gluten free diet theory (or at least the paleodiet) is the only diet theory that resorts to evolution to try explaining what´s happening when we eat. It is strange that no other theory is looking in evolution to explain what we have to eat, we do it for our pets and for wild animals, but we consider ourselves out of that possibility (people actually has told me that). It is true that studies are still scarce, and surely it will change a lot during the next years due to new studies and insights. But if I have to bet to one theory that explains human feeding, I´ll do it to the one that is trying the evolution path. Surely there is also the intelligent design diet out there, for those who need options ;).
      - bane 14y ago
        Almost every fad diet I'm aware of justifies itself with some handwaiving about how we were going against evolution.
    - beagle3 14y ago
      > That's precisely why the placebo effect exists. The placebo effect is NOT well understood, definitely not to the point that you can make that blanket statement. > For example, what would you bet that most people describing improvement on a glutenfree diet are merely experiencing the benefits of an overall healthier diet that has little to nothing to do with their gluten intake and has everything to do with them not eating half a pizza twice a week. Oh, I would take that long bet easily, if we would agree on a way to resolve it, though I guess we wouldn't be able to reach such an agreement. I have my own n=1 story with respect to wheat (not sure if gluten or another component) - two years ago, I decided to drop it, and lost 30 pounds within a month. My diet changed, of course - but not to the extent that would induce a 1-pound/day weight deficit (that's 2000kcal/day if you believe in the provably wrong caloric theory of weight management). And it happened to me several times in a restaurant that I asked beforehand if something contained wheat, was told "no", ate it, felt "wheat symptoms", asked again, and it turned out that wheat was a non trivial component (seriously, it's in everything. really avoiding it is freaking hard). People are surprisingly incompetent when it comes to identifying symptoms, I'll give you that. They are also surprisingly incompetent in the trust they assign to the knowledge they came by. test yourself: [1] is dietary cholesterol harmful? [2] does dietary salt cause hypertension? [3] Does artificially lowering cholesterol (e.g. with statins, rather than a diet change) increase your life expetancy? Medicine got all of these wrong for the last 50-100 years, and is only now (very very slowly) making a U-turn. It doesn't get everything wrong, of course - but it sure as hell doesn't get everything right either. [1] not really. Dietary cholesterol accounts for 5-15% of serum cholesterol, the rest is made by the body. The recommendation to avoid dietary cholesterol is NOT based on evidence (or logic, for that matter) [2] for over 80% of the population, the answer is "definitely not". Once you already have hypertension, for 80% of the population, the answer is still "not". For the other 20% (which can be characterized) it is "yes". However, the recommendation for low sodium is made to the entire population. NOT BASED ON EVIDENCE or logic. [3] No. Statins reduce the probability for a heart attach, but actually increase all-cause mortality.
- awolf 14y ago
  Prior to understanding gluten intolerance, many people would just struggle through life with low-grade malaise that they felt was normal. Loose stool, constipation, low energy, poor metabolism, malnourishment, cloudy headedness. These problems have been around for a very long time with very little understanding as to their causes. So, as you asked: Is it just recently that everyone that everyone started having these issues? No. The issues have been around for a long time. It's just recently that there was this possible explanation and remedy for these issues.
- mjfern 14y ago
  I'm an n of 1. That said, I tried various diet changes (i.e., dairy free, vegetarian) and life changes (e.g., exercise) and none had a substantive effect. When I removed gluten from my diet the effects were dramatic. In addition, I do have gluten on a rare occasion and my old symptoms return. Is this a placebo effect? Perhaps, but then why didn't any of my other significant experiments have any meaningful impact? Note, I'm not suggesting that anyone with stomach issues has gluten intolerance. But if you do have persistent and long term stomach issues it is one of many conditions that should be seriously considered. Based on personal experience and research on the issue gluten intolerance is not a fad and shouldn't be dismissed as such.
  - jaggederest 14y ago
    > But if you do have persistent and long term stomach issues it is one of many conditions that should be seriously considered. I completely agree. I just think it's ridiculous that so many people have assigned themselves 'gluten intolerance' without even talking to a doctor or specialist in the matter. And no, naturopaths don't count. The man who treats himself has a fool for a doctor.
- taneliv 14y ago
  I did the same experiment to an extent blindly: after four years of stomach problems, I thought it was lactose intolerance. Leaving out milk helped quite a lot. Later I was tested, and found to not be lactose intolerant. Milk back on diet. Stomach problems reappeared, if just not that bad. Later on was diagnosed with something called "cereal allergy" (quite possibly not a real diagnosis, the army MD who explained this to me was preparing her dissertation on the subject). To wit, leaving out all cereal made all my stomach problems disappear. Now, what was the deal with the milk? I used to eat a lot of bread, and take milk with that. Leaving out milk, I inadvertantly left out bread as well, seriously limiting cereal in diet. This all happened in the first half of 1990s, long before the current popularity of the subject. Yes, not a real study (N=1 etc). OTOH, I would claim it was definitely blind for me.
- lukifer 14y ago
  Supposedly, a lot of grain sensitivity issues have been exacerbated by new high-yield wheat strains introduced in the 60s and 70s. But I think it's mostly that glutens simply weren't on most people's radar until recently, and so people simply assumed any resulting health issues were inherent or chronic. After all, everybody is supposed to eat bread, right? Disclaimer: Strict paleo here, with staggeringly positive results. :)
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- tezza 14y ago
  I do not agree. Any gluten at all gives my wife stomach problems. This happens whether she knows it has gluten or not. -- My wife tried what the parent poster said in a similar way No stomach problems ==> Not eating gluten Surely this is very close to proof by contrapositive A ==> B same as Not B ==> Not A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_contrapositive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_contrapositive
  - jaggederest 14y ago
    If she eats any grains at all, she's most likely not eating gluten free. The standard for gluten free is extremely, extremely sensitive, and cross contamination is almost certain. You have to be eating things that are 100% certified elisa tested to be gluten free - so far as I am aware, only a few products meet this standard.
    - __--__ 14y ago
      Are you suggesting that if I eat some grass fed beef that hasn't been elisa tested, there's a good chance I'm eating gluten? This seems patently ridiculous to me. The elisa test is also flawed - there are situations in which it can't detect hydrolized gluten. In any case, quantity matters. Trace amounts of gluten due to cross contamination may not be enough to cause people significant problems. You don't have to be 100% gluten free to derive benefits from it.
      - jaggederest 14y ago
        > Are you suggesting that if I eat some grass fed beef that hasn't been elisa tested, there's a good chance I'm eating gluten? Yes, because it's been handled in a food chain that deals with a lot of wheat products. > The elisa test is also flawed - there are situations in which it can't detect hydrolized gluten. Yes, but it's the best available for wide-scale screening. > Trace amounts of gluten due to cross contamination may not be enough to cause people significant problems. The standard is ten parts per million. > You don't have to be 100% gluten free to derive benefits from it. If you want to claim to be gluten free you do.
- LeeHunter 14y ago
  " Somatic gastrointestinal issues are very common, and are often resolved by placebo treatment." Really? Can you cite any research to back that up?
  - jaggederest 14y ago
    Functional gastrointestinal disorders affect ~10-20% of the population and respond well to placebo and antidepressants, much like somatic pain. I don't have citations, but you can look it up, it's very interesting reading.
- zipdog 14y ago
  Research indicates its may not be a placebo, eg: "Gluten Causes Gastrointestinal Symptoms in Subjects Without Celiac Disease: A Double-Blind Randomized Placebo-Controlled Trial" (The American Journal of Gastroenterology 106, 508-514 (March 2011)) A potential contributing factor for the recent rise might the use of drugs such as be Accutane/Isotretinoin. 2 million US people have taken Accutane since 1982, and recently it has been linked to intestinal/bowel issues (including increased sensitivity to gluten).
- __--__ 14y ago
  I find it fairly absurd you combine a scientific concept (the placebo) with an emotion based reaction lacking in any evidence. The effects of gluten on the digestive system isn't imaginary - there are plenty of studies that prove otherwise. A simple google search would have turned up a few. The more likely scenario as to why this is becoming a larger issue than it has in the past is people eat more now than they used to. More wheat means more aggravation of the stomach. Another possibility is people didn't used to have access to the information we do now, thanks to the internet. The only option used to be go see a doctor or suck it up. Some studies: http://www.nature.com/ajg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/ajg2010487a.html http://www.nature.com/ajg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/ajg20104... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3023594 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3023594 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC433288 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC433288 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1115436 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1115436 http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.0040276 http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal....
- Shorel 14y ago
  > if you monitor most gluten-free diets they're a complete failure What do you mean by that?
  - jaggederest 14y ago
    If your grains were stored in a silo next to one with wheat in it, it has wheat in it. If your food was prepared in a kitchen that uses flour anywhere in the facility, or has in the recent past, it has wheat in it. It's surprisingly hard to achieve <10PPM gluten in modern foodstuffs. Even things that don't necessarily list wheat on the allergies list may or may not contain gluten.
    - Shorel 14y ago
      I don't eat any grains. My wife and me cook our own food. Mostly eggs, meat and green vegetables. Honestly it's not that hard to be gluten free, if you go grain free first. But I concur that it is hard as hell to eat any grains without gluten.
aaronbrethorst 14y ago
Four years of stomach trouble. Dropped gluten on the suggestion of a friend with celiac. In 2 days the problem was gone. After four years. I honestly couldn't believe it. Sure, I miss pizza and beer to a certain extent, but, as you rightly point out, it's a small price to pay for feeling normal and healthy. jm2c, not a doctor, etc etc.

by mjfern 14y ago

jaggederest 14y ago

You know, it may work for you, but it's probably no more than (and no less than!) placebo. Somatic gastrointestinal issues are very common, and are often resolved by placebo treatment. You can't tell unless you're in the context of a real study that uses blinding to tease out the placebo effect. I find it fairly absurd that so many people suddenly feel better when they stop eating gluten (poorly, might I add, if you monitor most gluten-free diets they're a complete failure) this decade. Is it just recently that everyone has started having issues?

scarecrowbob 14y ago
If your standard for differentiating between placebo and "real" effects is participation in a "real" study, you've by definition eliminated pretty much all introspection as a source of data about ones body. Although you might find it absurd that folks are feeling better from a dietary modification that hasn't been around for a long while, I find it equally strange to dismiss out of hand the lived experience of "so many people".
- bane 14y ago
  People are surprisingly incompetent when it comes self identifying and describe symptoms as well as self monitoring disease progression (people here includes doctors). That's precisely why the placebo effect exists. For example, what would you bet that most people describing improvement on a glutenfree diet are merely experiencing the benefits of an overall healthier diet that has little to nothing to do with their gluten intake and has everything to do with them not eating half a pizza twice a week.
  - omegant 14y ago
    Surprisingly scientists are not that good either... http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124 http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal... Also the gluten free diet theory (or at least the paleodiet) is the only diet theory that resorts to evolution to try explaining what´s happening when we eat. It is strange that no other theory is looking in evolution to explain what we have to eat, we do it for our pets and for wild animals, but we consider ourselves out of that possibility (people actually has told me that). It is true that studies are still scarce, and surely it will change a lot during the next years due to new studies and insights. But if I have to bet to one theory that explains human feeding, I´ll do it to the one that is trying the evolution path. Surely there is also the intelligent design diet out there, for those who need options ;).
    - bane 14y ago
      Almost every fad diet I'm aware of justifies itself with some handwaiving about how we were going against evolution.
  - beagle3 14y ago
    > That's precisely why the placebo effect exists. The placebo effect is NOT well understood, definitely not to the point that you can make that blanket statement. > For example, what would you bet that most people describing improvement on a glutenfree diet are merely experiencing the benefits of an overall healthier diet that has little to nothing to do with their gluten intake and has everything to do with them not eating half a pizza twice a week. Oh, I would take that long bet easily, if we would agree on a way to resolve it, though I guess we wouldn't be able to reach such an agreement. I have my own n=1 story with respect to wheat (not sure if gluten or another component) - two years ago, I decided to drop it, and lost 30 pounds within a month. My diet changed, of course - but not to the extent that would induce a 1-pound/day weight deficit (that's 2000kcal/day if you believe in the provably wrong caloric theory of weight management). And it happened to me several times in a restaurant that I asked beforehand if something contained wheat, was told "no", ate it, felt "wheat symptoms", asked again, and it turned out that wheat was a non trivial component (seriously, it's in everything. really avoiding it is freaking hard). People are surprisingly incompetent when it comes to identifying symptoms, I'll give you that. They are also surprisingly incompetent in the trust they assign to the knowledge they came by. test yourself: [1] is dietary cholesterol harmful? [2] does dietary salt cause hypertension? [3] Does artificially lowering cholesterol (e.g. with statins, rather than a diet change) increase your life expetancy? Medicine got all of these wrong for the last 50-100 years, and is only now (very very slowly) making a U-turn. It doesn't get everything wrong, of course - but it sure as hell doesn't get everything right either. [1] not really. Dietary cholesterol accounts for 5-15% of serum cholesterol, the rest is made by the body. The recommendation to avoid dietary cholesterol is NOT based on evidence (or logic, for that matter) [2] for over 80% of the population, the answer is "definitely not". Once you already have hypertension, for 80% of the population, the answer is still "not". For the other 20% (which can be characterized) it is "yes". However, the recommendation for low sodium is made to the entire population. NOT BASED ON EVIDENCE or logic. [3] No. Statins reduce the probability for a heart attach, but actually increase all-cause mortality.
awolf 14y ago
Prior to understanding gluten intolerance, many people would just struggle through life with low-grade malaise that they felt was normal. Loose stool, constipation, low energy, poor metabolism, malnourishment, cloudy headedness. These problems have been around for a very long time with very little understanding as to their causes. So, as you asked: Is it just recently that everyone that everyone started having these issues? No. The issues have been around for a long time. It's just recently that there was this possible explanation and remedy for these issues.
mjfern 14y ago
I'm an n of 1. That said, I tried various diet changes (i.e., dairy free, vegetarian) and life changes (e.g., exercise) and none had a substantive effect. When I removed gluten from my diet the effects were dramatic. In addition, I do have gluten on a rare occasion and my old symptoms return. Is this a placebo effect? Perhaps, but then why didn't any of my other significant experiments have any meaningful impact? Note, I'm not suggesting that anyone with stomach issues has gluten intolerance. But if you do have persistent and long term stomach issues it is one of many conditions that should be seriously considered. Based on personal experience and research on the issue gluten intolerance is not a fad and shouldn't be dismissed as such.
- jaggederest 14y ago
  > But if you do have persistent and long term stomach issues it is one of many conditions that should be seriously considered. I completely agree. I just think it's ridiculous that so many people have assigned themselves 'gluten intolerance' without even talking to a doctor or specialist in the matter. And no, naturopaths don't count. The man who treats himself has a fool for a doctor.
taneliv 14y ago
I did the same experiment to an extent blindly: after four years of stomach problems, I thought it was lactose intolerance. Leaving out milk helped quite a lot. Later I was tested, and found to not be lactose intolerant. Milk back on diet. Stomach problems reappeared, if just not that bad. Later on was diagnosed with something called "cereal allergy" (quite possibly not a real diagnosis, the army MD who explained this to me was preparing her dissertation on the subject). To wit, leaving out all cereal made all my stomach problems disappear. Now, what was the deal with the milk? I used to eat a lot of bread, and take milk with that. Leaving out milk, I inadvertantly left out bread as well, seriously limiting cereal in diet. This all happened in the first half of 1990s, long before the current popularity of the subject. Yes, not a real study (N=1 etc). OTOH, I would claim it was definitely blind for me.
lukifer 14y ago
Supposedly, a lot of grain sensitivity issues have been exacerbated by new high-yield wheat strains introduced in the 60s and 70s. But I think it's mostly that glutens simply weren't on most people's radar until recently, and so people simply assumed any resulting health issues were inherent or chronic. After all, everybody is supposed to eat bread, right? Disclaimer: Strict paleo here, with staggeringly positive results. :)
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
tezza 14y ago
I do not agree. Any gluten at all gives my wife stomach problems. This happens whether she knows it has gluten or not. -- My wife tried what the parent poster said in a similar way No stomach problems ==> Not eating gluten Surely this is very close to proof by contrapositive A ==> B same as Not B ==> Not A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_contrapositive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_contrapositive
- jaggederest 14y ago
  If she eats any grains at all, she's most likely not eating gluten free. The standard for gluten free is extremely, extremely sensitive, and cross contamination is almost certain. You have to be eating things that are 100% certified elisa tested to be gluten free - so far as I am aware, only a few products meet this standard.
  - __--__ 14y ago
    Are you suggesting that if I eat some grass fed beef that hasn't been elisa tested, there's a good chance I'm eating gluten? This seems patently ridiculous to me. The elisa test is also flawed - there are situations in which it can't detect hydrolized gluten. In any case, quantity matters. Trace amounts of gluten due to cross contamination may not be enough to cause people significant problems. You don't have to be 100% gluten free to derive benefits from it.
    - jaggederest 14y ago
      > Are you suggesting that if I eat some grass fed beef that hasn't been elisa tested, there's a good chance I'm eating gluten? Yes, because it's been handled in a food chain that deals with a lot of wheat products. > The elisa test is also flawed - there are situations in which it can't detect hydrolized gluten. Yes, but it's the best available for wide-scale screening. > Trace amounts of gluten due to cross contamination may not be enough to cause people significant problems. The standard is ten parts per million. > You don't have to be 100% gluten free to derive benefits from it. If you want to claim to be gluten free you do.
LeeHunter 14y ago
" Somatic gastrointestinal issues are very common, and are often resolved by placebo treatment." Really? Can you cite any research to back that up?
- jaggederest 14y ago
  Functional gastrointestinal disorders affect ~10-20% of the population and respond well to placebo and antidepressants, much like somatic pain. I don't have citations, but you can look it up, it's very interesting reading.
zipdog 14y ago
Research indicates its may not be a placebo, eg: "Gluten Causes Gastrointestinal Symptoms in Subjects Without Celiac Disease: A Double-Blind Randomized Placebo-Controlled Trial" (The American Journal of Gastroenterology 106, 508-514 (March 2011)) A potential contributing factor for the recent rise might the use of drugs such as be Accutane/Isotretinoin. 2 million US people have taken Accutane since 1982, and recently it has been linked to intestinal/bowel issues (including increased sensitivity to gluten).
__--__ 14y ago
I find it fairly absurd you combine a scientific concept (the placebo) with an emotion based reaction lacking in any evidence. The effects of gluten on the digestive system isn't imaginary - there are plenty of studies that prove otherwise. A simple google search would have turned up a few. The more likely scenario as to why this is becoming a larger issue than it has in the past is people eat more now than they used to. More wheat means more aggravation of the stomach. Another possibility is people didn't used to have access to the information we do now, thanks to the internet. The only option used to be go see a doctor or suck it up. Some studies: http://www.nature.com/ajg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/ajg2010487a.html http://www.nature.com/ajg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/ajg20104... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3023594 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3023594 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC433288 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC433288 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1115436 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1115436 http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.0040276 http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal....
Shorel 14y ago
> if you monitor most gluten-free diets they're a complete failure What do you mean by that?
- jaggederest 14y ago
  If your grains were stored in a silo next to one with wheat in it, it has wheat in it. If your food was prepared in a kitchen that uses flour anywhere in the facility, or has in the recent past, it has wheat in it. It's surprisingly hard to achieve <10PPM gluten in modern foodstuffs. Even things that don't necessarily list wheat on the allergies list may or may not contain gluten.
  - Shorel 14y ago
    I don't eat any grains. My wife and me cook our own food. Mostly eggs, meat and green vegetables. Honestly it's not that hard to be gluten free, if you go grain free first. But I concur that it is hard as hell to eat any grains without gluten.

aaronbrethorst 14y ago

Four years of stomach trouble. Dropped gluten on the suggestion of a friend with celiac. In 2 days the problem was gone. After four years. I honestly couldn't believe it. Sure, I miss pizza and beer to a certain extent, but, as you rightly point out, it's a small price to pay for feeling normal and healthy. jm2c, not a doctor, etc etc.