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This article is a contrarian indicator. Startups have jumped the shark. While many people reading HN find the "fake it 'til you make it" narrative appealing,

This article is a contrarian indicator. Startups have jumped the shark. While many people reading HN find the "fake it 'til you make it" narrative appealing, anything worth doing in this life take some smarts and years of slavish devotion (choose your own definition of what's worth doing). Taking shortcuts, as these people have done and were punished for, is not how it's done. I'm all for second chances, but teach them useful skills that will get them a job when they hit the street again.

batgaijin 14y ago
Yeah, those terrible people who invent accounts to create a false level of activity for visitors are terrible people. I mean lying to users is probably one of the worst things we can do. Get off your high horse.
melvinmt 14y ago
> anything worth doing in this life take some smarts and years of slavish devotion Sounds like prison life is well suited to catch up.
biot 14y ago
Since Y Combinator is too competitive to get into, can someone recommend a suitable crime that I can commit in order to be sent to San Quentin? Preferably a felony whose prison sentence matches the length of the program. Given that the incubator program in San Quentin accepts 1 in 5 applicants from the general prison population, as a developer I think I'm a shoe-in for being accepted. Thanks in advance for your suggestions and I look forward to submitting a "Show HN" article once my SQ W2013 startup launches. Goodbye, ramen noodles and sleeping on my buddy's floor... hello, three hots and a cot!
- fuddle 14y ago
  ha ha!
brianchu 14y ago
Did you read the article? How in any sense of the phrase are these people taking shortcuts? The one inmate cited in the story acknowledges that he has a lot to learn and that he's not actually going to start a startup after being released. The one investor who is cited talks about being there to educate, not invest. The program itself is trying to get internships for these inmates when they're released. Internships are pretty much the bottom rung when it comes to jobs - starting with an internship and then working your way up is the complete antithesis of taking shortcuts.
- supahfly_remix 14y ago
  I was referring to the shortcut that got them into prison in the first place. These inmates should be learning how to fix cars, not how to be a VC. And, if they are ambitious enough, they can be an entrepreneurial car mechanics -- nothing wrong with that. An intern, that's ridiculous.
duaneb 14y ago
> Taking shortcuts, as these people have done and were punished for, is not how it's done. The guy interviewed was Griffin and was in there for drug possession—not exactly taking shortcuts. There are many people who work hard and go to prison for other reasons. Saying "Taking shortcuts" and insinuating that all people in prison lack the job skills (ignoring the fact that being in prison makes it extremely difficult to find employment even with skills) implies laziness, but saying "these people" is a tricky way to reduce an entire population into a single characterization. Some would consider this classist or racist given the the classes and races which make up much of the population of prisons. I'm emphatically not accusing you of this, given that I would imagine people on HN would be above that, but A) you should be sensitive to it, not only for those in prison but also for all the people who have people in their lives who are in prison, and they may find this painful or offensive. But also B) remember that directly going after people with money is sometimes shortsighted. We share the same culture regardless of income, including (importantly) much of the internet, so taste and internet traffic may be dictated by people who come from literally anywhere—Cristal was built from a nothing brand into a billion dollar industry by being name dropped in hip-hop music, and lost business after racist/classist comments leading to Jay-Z boycotting them. Not everyone in prison is going to have what it takes to do a startup, but they should also not be ignored. Some of the richest people in America were born to poverty, so don't discount them immediately. I say this as a member of the target audience of pretty much everyone on HN and an immense fan of Trailer Park Boys.
- supahfly_remix 14y ago
  You've watched "Shawshank Redemption" too many times. Most people live their lives without winding up in SQ. Odds are the inmates deserved to be there. And, if it's classist to say this, then I'm guilty as charged. You're probably right about targeting other groups, though. I saw an ad for the rushcard from Russell Simmons the other day. It looks like it solves a real problem for some people.
_delirium 14y ago
"Taking shortcuts" is a pretty common theme behind successful startups. Sometimes even illegal shortcuts (look at Uber), or ethically questionable ones (look at Oracle)...

batgaijin 14y ago

Yeah, those terrible people who invent accounts to create a false level of activity for visitors are terrible people. I mean lying to users is probably one of the worst things we can do. Get off your high horse.

melvinmt 14y ago

> anything worth doing in this life take some smarts and years of slavish devotion Sounds like prison life is well suited to catch up.

biot 14y ago

Since Y Combinator is too competitive to get into, can someone recommend a suitable crime that I can commit in order to be sent to San Quentin? Preferably a felony whose prison sentence matches the length of the program. Given that the incubator program in San Quentin accepts 1 in 5 applicants from the general prison population, as a developer I think I'm a shoe-in for being accepted. Thanks in advance for your suggestions and I look forward to submitting a "Show HN" article once my SQ W2013 startup launches. Goodbye, ramen noodles and sleeping on my buddy's floor... hello, three hots and a cot!

fuddle 14y ago
ha ha!

brianchu 14y ago

Did you read the article? How in any sense of the phrase are these people taking shortcuts? The one inmate cited in the story acknowledges that he has a lot to learn and that he's not actually going to start a startup after being released. The one investor who is cited talks about being there to educate, not invest. The program itself is trying to get internships for these inmates when they're released. Internships are pretty much the bottom rung when it comes to jobs - starting with an internship and then working your way up is the complete antithesis of taking shortcuts.

supahfly_remix 14y ago
I was referring to the shortcut that got them into prison in the first place. These inmates should be learning how to fix cars, not how to be a VC. And, if they are ambitious enough, they can be an entrepreneurial car mechanics -- nothing wrong with that. An intern, that's ridiculous.

duaneb 14y ago

> Taking shortcuts, as these people have done and were punished for, is not how it's done. The guy interviewed was Griffin and was in there for drug possession—not exactly taking shortcuts. There are many people who work hard and go to prison for other reasons. Saying "Taking shortcuts" and insinuating that all people in prison lack the job skills (ignoring the fact that being in prison makes it extremely difficult to find employment even with skills) implies laziness, but saying "these people" is a tricky way to reduce an entire population into a single characterization. Some would consider this classist or racist given the the classes and races which make up much of the population of prisons. I'm emphatically not accusing you of this, given that I would imagine people on HN would be above that, but A) you should be sensitive to it, not only for those in prison but also for all the people who have people in their lives who are in prison, and they may find this painful or offensive. But also B) remember that directly going after people with money is sometimes shortsighted. We share the same culture regardless of income, including (importantly) much of the internet, so taste and internet traffic may be dictated by people who come from literally anywhere—Cristal was built from a nothing brand into a billion dollar industry by being name dropped in hip-hop music, and lost business after racist/classist comments leading to Jay-Z boycotting them. Not everyone in prison is going to have what it takes to do a startup, but they should also not be ignored. Some of the richest people in America were born to poverty, so don't discount them immediately. I say this as a member of the target audience of pretty much everyone on HN and an immense fan of Trailer Park Boys.

supahfly_remix 14y ago
You've watched "Shawshank Redemption" too many times. Most people live their lives without winding up in SQ. Odds are the inmates deserved to be there. And, if it's classist to say this, then I'm guilty as charged. You're probably right about targeting other groups, though. I saw an ad for the rushcard from Russell Simmons the other day. It looks like it solves a real problem for some people.

_delirium 14y ago

"Taking shortcuts" is a pretty common theme behind successful startups. Sometimes even illegal shortcuts (look at Uber), or ethically questionable ones (look at Oracle)...