3 ms·

That's what they want you to believe. Try reading the license. You have to know how many lines from the header file you are "distributing" (in the GNU lingo).

by critic 18y ago

That's what they want you to believe. Try reading the license. You have to know how many lines from the header file you are "distributing" (in the GNU lingo). If you are using C++ templates, you are probably screwed. You have to make sure you link dynamically (or else). LGPL seems to require advertising the library. And if you want do static linking, talk to a lawyer. Linus and RMS disagree on what constitutes "derived work", btw. Edit: I'd like to know what motivated people to upmod parent, when it's factually incorrect and can cost developers dearly if they take the message at face value.

patio11 18y ago
Exactly. I'm unwilling to pay the uncertainty tax. (Ironically, commercial software is often much easier to justify than the LGPL equivalent is! "Fork over $200 and you're OK" -- sweet, done! Spend a few hours reading legal code and still coming no closer to understanding whether a plugin in application A accessed over REST by application B is "linked" to A, B, A and B, or neither... bah.)
azanar 18y ago
You are talking about Section 3 of the LGPL? IANAL, but this section seems pretty logically simple to me, and I think you are misreading it. If you read the terms, you are required to do either of the following: * a) Give prominent notice with each copy of the object code that the Library is used in it and that the Library and its use are covered by this License. * b) Accompany the object code with a copy of the GNU GPL and this license document. How is needing to provide a mention of the LGPL'ed libraries and the fact that they are LGPL'ed in any way screwing you? You also have to provide a copy of the GPL and LGPL amended your own legalese. You are not required to distribute the source for the library, nor the source of your own application. I've seen several large commercial applications make mention of included libraries, some under the LGPL, and it has never bothered me, nor anyone else who purchased it. I understand that you want to be able to charge money for the software you write, but that you seem to perceive the LGPL as a threat to this ability seems excessively fear-mongery. I agree that anyone concerned about licensing terms should consult an attorney, but because you want to understand things better, not because you are fearful of software development turning socialist.
- tlrobinson 18y ago
  Please add some line breaks in that quoted text.
  - azanar 18y ago
    Fixed. :-)
- critic 18y ago
  If, as you say, LGPL, is clear to you, what do you think "object code" refers to in the (b) clause you just quoted? How are the "ten lines" counted in the paragraph above (you didn't quote): separately or total? etc. etc.
  - azanar 18y ago
    1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_code http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_code 2. I'd assume as lines are normally counted. The number of line-feeds and/or carriage returns in a file. I don't see what the big deal is anyway; if you are at all concerned, just include the license text. Is doing so that big a deal?
    - critic 18y ago
      No. Whose object code? Is it talking about my object code or the library's? Ten lines per function, per header, per library, per program? Edit: I think you didn't understand LGPL yourself either. I think in the quoted lines, "object code" refers to your code, and accompanying them with a copy of GPL refers to having to release your code under GPL. Or do you think you only have to say you release it under GPL and not actually release it?
      - gjm11 18y ago
        I think you're entirely wrong about the "copy of the GPL" business. The LGPL consists of the GPL plus a bunch of extra stuff. The LGPL document found e.g. at http://www.gnu.org/licenses/lgpl.html http://www.gnu.org/licenses/lgpl.html lists only the extra stuff. Therefore, whenever it imposes any requirement to distribute a copy of the licence, it says "a copy of the GNU GPL and this license document". That's all. If there were a requirement to distribute your stuff under the terms of the (not-L)GPL, then it would say so. (Merely distributing a copy of the GPL along with your code would not put the code under that licence.) Those terms to which you object mean, I think, the following: If your object code includes bits of the library header files, and if those bits are substantial, then you have to (1) say that you're using the library, (2) say what licence the library is covered by, and (3) include a copy of the documents that define that licence.

by critic 18y ago

patio11 18y ago

Exactly. I'm unwilling to pay the uncertainty tax. (Ironically, commercial software is often much easier to justify than the LGPL equivalent is! "Fork over $200 and you're OK" -- sweet, done! Spend a few hours reading legal code and still coming no closer to understanding whether a plugin in application A accessed over REST by application B is "linked" to A, B, A and B, or neither... bah.)

azanar 18y ago

You are talking about Section 3 of the LGPL? IANAL, but this section seems pretty logically simple to me, and I think you are misreading it. If you read the terms, you are required to do either of the following: * a) Give prominent notice with each copy of the object code that the Library is used in it and that the Library and its use are covered by this License. * b) Accompany the object code with a copy of the GNU GPL and this license document. How is needing to provide a mention of the LGPL'ed libraries and the fact that they are LGPL'ed in any way screwing you? You also have to provide a copy of the GPL and LGPL amended your own legalese. You are not required to distribute the source for the library, nor the source of your own application. I've seen several large commercial applications make mention of included libraries, some under the LGPL, and it has never bothered me, nor anyone else who purchased it. I understand that you want to be able to charge money for the software you write, but that you seem to perceive the LGPL as a threat to this ability seems excessively fear-mongery. I agree that anyone concerned about licensing terms should consult an attorney, but because you want to understand things better, not because you are fearful of software development turning socialist.

tlrobinson 18y ago
Please add some line breaks in that quoted text.
- azanar 18y ago
  Fixed. :-)
critic 18y ago
If, as you say, LGPL, is clear to you, what do you think "object code" refers to in the (b) clause you just quoted? How are the "ten lines" counted in the paragraph above (you didn't quote): separately or total? etc. etc.
- azanar 18y ago
  1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_code http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_code 2. I'd assume as lines are normally counted. The number of line-feeds and/or carriage returns in a file. I don't see what the big deal is anyway; if you are at all concerned, just include the license text. Is doing so that big a deal?
  - critic 18y ago
    No. Whose object code? Is it talking about my object code or the library's? Ten lines per function, per header, per library, per program? Edit: I think you didn't understand LGPL yourself either. I think in the quoted lines, "object code" refers to your code, and accompanying them with a copy of GPL refers to having to release your code under GPL. Or do you think you only have to say you release it under GPL and not actually release it?
    - gjm11 18y ago
      I think you're entirely wrong about the "copy of the GPL" business. The LGPL consists of the GPL plus a bunch of extra stuff. The LGPL document found e.g. at http://www.gnu.org/licenses/lgpl.html http://www.gnu.org/licenses/lgpl.html lists only the extra stuff. Therefore, whenever it imposes any requirement to distribute a copy of the licence, it says "a copy of the GNU GPL and this license document". That's all. If there were a requirement to distribute your stuff under the terms of the (not-L)GPL, then it would say so. (Merely distributing a copy of the GPL along with your code would not put the code under that licence.) Those terms to which you object mean, I think, the following: If your object code includes bits of the library header files, and if those bits are substantial, then you have to (1) say that you're using the library, (2) say what licence the library is covered by, and (3) include a copy of the documents that define that licence.