7 ms·

"Wake up Japan!" says Dave McClure

48 points by hunvreus 14y ago

aaron695 14y ago
I'm not sure I've learned anything from this video or comments. Nothing is really backed up. Even the speaker admits they are a VC who's not rich. Yes westerners all think the Japanese have a culture with problems, but of course we do, I really need some sort proof or a speaker who has proven themselves.
LefterisJP 14y ago
I have been living in Japan for the last 3 years and there is also another Japanese saying. "出る釘は打たれる". Very well known in the West as "The nail that sticks out gets hammered down". This is a culture of uniformity and always taking the safe route and making sure to never lose face. It's not easy for someone to go the start-up way here. At the same time the Japanese are really hard working and there are some Japanese companies out there which are trying to change the norm and I do sincerely hope they succeed. To the question if start-ups can grow in Japan I believe so yes. But not in the same way and context as in the west and in the silicon valley. The culture is just too different and as a result so will the start-ups. I have met some really bright people here and I have also come across many social barriers and rules that don't make sense (to my way of thinking). For the sake of the Japanese economy I hope that the culture slowly but steadily becomes more accepting of start-ups and entrepreneurship and encourages these bright people to create instead of smothering them.
- toddmorey 14y ago
  When I was living in Japan, my mother would use the game Clue to teach English. The interesting cultural component we noticed was the Japanese players had a really hard time not sharing their cards with the other players. Clue, played cooperatively, doesn't really work that well! I can't help but think that the American tradition of rugged individualism, though it brings other baggage, has helped create a good climate for startups and innovation.
- obviouslygreen 14y ago
  +1, partially because a lot of people here explicitly conflate "cultures conducive to startups" with "Silicon Valley culture," which is nothing short of ridiculous. The Japanese in particular have a very tough cultural hill to climb in order to remove the various taboos associated with startups and their potential downsides (as well as their non-conformist nature). Hopefully they get off the deflation-is-our-cure train at some point and start moving in this direction; it might help when addressing the other serious problems Japan is facing.
- newnewnew 14y ago
  How much of this risk aversion is due to aging demographics and a shrinking population? You could argue that the west has lost its appetite for risk since the early days of the baby boom as well.
pshin45 14y ago
There is a famous saying in Japanese "七転び八起き" which means even if you fall 7 times, get up 8 times and move forward. But at the same time, the Japanese wants to do things well and organized, the citizens does not like failure, it's a country that fears shame. I've been working in Korea for the past 4+ years, and they suffer from the same exact issues - the extreme shame of failure and unwillingness to "lose face." Korea and Japan produce a lot of engineers and have amazing tech infrastructures even compared to the West, but they'll never be able to become a thriving startup ecosystem because the culture is just too different from that of Silicon Valley. You can relocate or attract new mentors and investors to a given place, but culture is one of those things that just does not change easily, if at all.
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  > the culture is just too different from that of Silicon Valley If there's one defining attribute of Japanese culture, it is its willingness to absorb and syncretize outside influences. The most recent examples are the Meiji Restoration and the post-WW2 transformation. So I don't think you can write off Japan just yet.
  - DamnYuppie 14y ago
    While those where impressive changes that doesn't mean the culture and societal structure they have today is similar to those times. Simply stated they have the lowest birth rate of any first world nation, we don't have to write them off, they are doing quite fine fading into the sunset on their own.
    - w1ntermute 14y ago
      > While those where impressive changes that doesn't mean the culture and societal structure they have today is similar to those times. The point is that they can change their culture and society at a particularly rapid clip, so that is moot. > Simply stated they have the lowest birth rate of any first world nation, we don't have to write them off, they are doing quite fine fading into the sunset on their own. I don't understand why having a decreasing population is inherently seen as a bad thing. For comparison, Japan has 1/3rd the arable land of Germany[0], yet it has 1.5x the population[1]. Japan is overpopulated - now it's just going to an equilibrium population size. 0: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=arable+land+%7C+japan+vs+germany http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=arable+land+%7C+japan+v... 1: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+%7C+japan+vs+germany http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+%7C+japan+vs...
wyclif 14y ago
McClure
michaelochurch 14y ago
There is a famous saying in Japanese "七転び八起き" which means even if you fall 7 times, get up 8 times and move forward. But at the same time, the Japanese wants to do things well and organized, the citizens does not like failure, it's a country that fears shame. Are we really that different? In the US, we seem to have this sense of superiority on this issue, but I think our tolerance of risk is paper-thin. It's superficial. To get deeper into it, I find VC-istan to be especially hypocritical, because while it takes what seems to be a progressive attitude toward business failure, it's also a world in which, if you're not a C*O by 35 and an investor (read: rich and semi-retired) of some sort by 42, you're written off entirely as a useless human being. How, exactly, is this supposed to encourage resilience? If anything, that's the exact mentality that created the stodgy risk-aversion of these blue-chip corporations VC-istan considers itself ready to replace. VC-istan is a postmodern corporation in which "tech companies" are disposable, because they're mere sub-projects of the meta-company. "Founders" are nominally independent project managers and investors are the real executives. What seems like a tolerant attitude toward business failure is actually the (probably beneficial, but cutthroat) willingness of this meta-company's executives (investors) to cancel projects for a variety of reasons. Getting people to "wake up" isn't about changing one culture. The problem is that human nature is to pick leaders based on apparent success, and to ostracize failures. That works well in groups of 20 individuals that are barely surviving-- that is, our evolutionary frame-- but is not what you need in order to design or encourage a rational technological economy.
- Surio 14y ago
  >>In the US, we seem to have this sense of superiority on this issue, but I think our tolerance of risk is paper-thin. It's superficial. Hmmm... Judging by the overall comments so far, it seems every culture seems to has an acute (and accurate) sense of its own thin-skinnedness that another cultures' perception of them. Most of the points you make is validated by another article making rounds in the first page here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5270460 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5270460 From the article linked to that thread: When I was raising my first round, it fell apart because an A-list investor who had given us a verbal commitment backed out. He did this because he had heard from his friend, who I had went out for beers with, said that we were struggling and unsure of what we were doing. >> The problem is that human nature is to pick leaders based on apparent success, and to ostracise failures. Given that you've framed it like so, that nails it then? Status quo as it is now, is not going to change anytime soon! Let's stop wasting our time and get on with the rest of our lives, doing whatever it is that we are currently doing, eh? :-| [wry smiley] P.S: Not being sarcastic, or picking on you in my reply. Hope that comes out clear :-/
coldtea 14y ago
>The speaker was Dave McLure, and he told the Japanese people to wake up, it's no longer the time for the Japanese to be sitting in the comfort zone, because this country is on fire. He tells people to become the nail that sticks out, move fast and break things, and don't be afraid to fail, because key factor to innovation is creativity, failure and iteration. I hope this was part of a stand up comedy show. Else this is cliche-country 101. You hear better stuff in high school graduation speeches.
- AznHisoka 14y ago
  I agree. A part of me finds it slightly disturbing that his ego thinks he knows what's best for a country of a billion people.... It's one to tell Japanese programmers who work in safe jobs to wake up, it's another to tell the general Japanese population.
  - mistermann 14y ago
    Population 128 million: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan
    - AznHisoka 14y ago
      There was a reason I said a billion, instead of an exact number. Because I wasn't sure, and knew someone would make a case out of it. So "a billion" means "a lot of people".
- toddmorey 14y ago
  I do think there is a cultural component to innovation. My fascination is India. There is so much software development talent there. I know a lot of developers from India who participate in the success of international firms like Adobe, Google, and Microsoft, but I'm surprised that we've yet to see that sort of company, a real, international powerhouse of software, emerge from India.
  - guylhem 14y ago
jeffehobbs 14y ago
McClure continued: "You're simply the best. Better than all the rest. Better than anyone -- anyone I've ever met." standing ovation
lucianomt 14y ago
You may or may not like DML's antics, but you can't say the guy doesn't have some balls.
gtt 14y ago
The OP and this thread (except for a few comments) could be summarized as follows: [barely testable social theory or hypotheses] [supported by a cliché or historical anecdote]. In my humble and down-to-earth opinion the main takeaway from any talk about "cultures" or "societies" or any other similar human-like concepts (did you notice that we often talk about "cultures" like they are living people?) is the idea that certain traits (fear of failure in this case) could impact my own performance. The next logical step is to modify something relevant in my live to test the effects and adjust behaviour based on this information if needed. Repeat this or just walk by if there are no effects present.

48 points by hunvreus 14y ago

I'm not sure I've learned anything from this video or comments. Nothing is really backed up. Even the speaker admits they are a VC who's not rich. Yes westerners all think the Japanese have a culture with problems, but of course we do, I really need some sort proof or a speaker who has proven themselves.

LefterisJP 14y ago

I have been living in Japan for the last 3 years and there is also another Japanese saying. "出る釘は打たれる". Very well known in the West as "The nail that sticks out gets hammered down". This is a culture of uniformity and always taking the safe route and making sure to never lose face. It's not easy for someone to go the start-up way here. At the same time the Japanese are really hard working and there are some Japanese companies out there which are trying to change the norm and I do sincerely hope they succeed. To the question if start-ups can grow in Japan I believe so yes. But not in the same way and context as in the west and in the silicon valley. The culture is just too different and as a result so will the start-ups. I have met some really bright people here and I have also come across many social barriers and rules that don't make sense (to my way of thinking). For the sake of the Japanese economy I hope that the culture slowly but steadily becomes more accepting of start-ups and entrepreneurship and encourages these bright people to create instead of smothering them.

toddmorey 14y ago
When I was living in Japan, my mother would use the game Clue to teach English. The interesting cultural component we noticed was the Japanese players had a really hard time not sharing their cards with the other players. Clue, played cooperatively, doesn't really work that well! I can't help but think that the American tradition of rugged individualism, though it brings other baggage, has helped create a good climate for startups and innovation.
obviouslygreen 14y ago
+1, partially because a lot of people here explicitly conflate "cultures conducive to startups" with "Silicon Valley culture," which is nothing short of ridiculous. The Japanese in particular have a very tough cultural hill to climb in order to remove the various taboos associated with startups and their potential downsides (as well as their non-conformist nature). Hopefully they get off the deflation-is-our-cure train at some point and start moving in this direction; it might help when addressing the other serious problems Japan is facing.
newnewnew 14y ago
How much of this risk aversion is due to aging demographics and a shrinking population? You could argue that the west has lost its appetite for risk since the early days of the baby boom as well.

pshin45 14y ago

w1ntermute 14y ago
> the culture is just too different from that of Silicon Valley If there's one defining attribute of Japanese culture, it is its willingness to absorb and syncretize outside influences. The most recent examples are the Meiji Restoration and the post-WW2 transformation. So I don't think you can write off Japan just yet.
- DamnYuppie 14y ago
  While those where impressive changes that doesn't mean the culture and societal structure they have today is similar to those times. Simply stated they have the lowest birth rate of any first world nation, we don't have to write them off, they are doing quite fine fading into the sunset on their own.
  - w1ntermute 14y ago
    > While those where impressive changes that doesn't mean the culture and societal structure they have today is similar to those times. The point is that they can change their culture and society at a particularly rapid clip, so that is moot. > Simply stated they have the lowest birth rate of any first world nation, we don't have to write them off, they are doing quite fine fading into the sunset on their own. I don't understand why having a decreasing population is inherently seen as a bad thing. For comparison, Japan has 1/3rd the arable land of Germany[0], yet it has 1.5x the population[1]. Japan is overpopulated - now it's just going to an equilibrium population size. 0: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=arable+land+%7C+japan+vs+germany http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=arable+land+%7C+japan+v... 1: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+%7C+japan+vs+germany http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+%7C+japan+vs...

wyclif 14y ago

McClure

michaelochurch 14y ago

There is a famous saying in Japanese "七転び八起き" which means even if you fall 7 times, get up 8 times and move forward. But at the same time, the Japanese wants to do things well and organized, the citizens does not like failure, it's a country that fears shame. Are we really that different? In the US, we seem to have this sense of superiority on this issue, but I think our tolerance of risk is paper-thin. It's superficial. To get deeper into it, I find VC-istan to be especially hypocritical, because while it takes what seems to be a progressive attitude toward business failure, it's also a world in which, if you're not a C*O by 35 and an investor (read: rich and semi-retired) of some sort by 42, you're written off entirely as a useless human being. How, exactly, is this supposed to encourage resilience? If anything, that's the exact mentality that created the stodgy risk-aversion of these blue-chip corporations VC-istan considers itself ready to replace. VC-istan is a postmodern corporation in which "tech companies" are disposable, because they're mere sub-projects of the meta-company. "Founders" are nominally independent project managers and investors are the real executives. What seems like a tolerant attitude toward business failure is actually the (probably beneficial, but cutthroat) willingness of this meta-company's executives (investors) to cancel projects for a variety of reasons. Getting people to "wake up" isn't about changing one culture. The problem is that human nature is to pick leaders based on apparent success, and to ostracize failures. That works well in groups of 20 individuals that are barely surviving-- that is, our evolutionary frame-- but is not what you need in order to design or encourage a rational technological economy.

Surio 14y ago
>>In the US, we seem to have this sense of superiority on this issue, but I think our tolerance of risk is paper-thin. It's superficial. Hmmm... Judging by the overall comments so far, it seems every culture seems to has an acute (and accurate) sense of its own thin-skinnedness that another cultures' perception of them. Most of the points you make is validated by another article making rounds in the first page here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5270460 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5270460 From the article linked to that thread: When I was raising my first round, it fell apart because an A-list investor who had given us a verbal commitment backed out. He did this because he had heard from his friend, who I had went out for beers with, said that we were struggling and unsure of what we were doing. >> The problem is that human nature is to pick leaders based on apparent success, and to ostracise failures. Given that you've framed it like so, that nails it then? Status quo as it is now, is not going to change anytime soon! Let's stop wasting our time and get on with the rest of our lives, doing whatever it is that we are currently doing, eh? :-| [wry smiley] P.S: Not being sarcastic, or picking on you in my reply. Hope that comes out clear :-/

coldtea 14y ago

>The speaker was Dave McLure, and he told the Japanese people to wake up, it's no longer the time for the Japanese to be sitting in the comfort zone, because this country is on fire. He tells people to become the nail that sticks out, move fast and break things, and don't be afraid to fail, because key factor to innovation is creativity, failure and iteration. I hope this was part of a stand up comedy show. Else this is cliche-country 101. You hear better stuff in high school graduation speeches.

AznHisoka 14y ago
I agree. A part of me finds it slightly disturbing that his ego thinks he knows what's best for a country of a billion people.... It's one to tell Japanese programmers who work in safe jobs to wake up, it's another to tell the general Japanese population.
- mistermann 14y ago
  Population 128 million: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan
  - AznHisoka 14y ago
    There was a reason I said a billion, instead of an exact number. Because I wasn't sure, and knew someone would make a case out of it. So "a billion" means "a lot of people".
toddmorey 14y ago
I do think there is a cultural component to innovation. My fascination is India. There is so much software development talent there. I know a lot of developers from India who participate in the success of international firms like Adobe, Google, and Microsoft, but I'm surprised that we've yet to see that sort of company, a real, international powerhouse of software, emerge from India.
- guylhem 14y ago

jeffehobbs 14y ago

McClure continued: "You're simply the best. Better than all the rest. Better than anyone -- anyone I've ever met." standing ovation

lucianomt 14y ago

You may or may not like DML's antics, but you can't say the guy doesn't have some balls.

gtt 14y ago

The OP and this thread (except for a few comments) could be summarized as follows: [barely testable social theory or hypotheses] [supported by a cliché or historical anecdote]. In my humble and down-to-earth opinion the main takeaway from any talk about "cultures" or "societies" or any other similar human-like concepts (did you notice that we often talk about "cultures" like they are living people?) is the idea that certain traits (fear of failure in this case) could impact my own performance. The next logical step is to modify something relevant in my live to test the effects and adjust behaviour based on this information if needed. Repeat this or just walk by if there are no effects present.