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Now you are making a different argument. I don't care if you think the government is or isn't an effective or responsible organization. I want to know why I a

Now you are making a different argument. I don't care if you think the government is or isn't an effective or responsible organization. I want to know why I as another member of your society should trust my safety to you and your firearm. Because if you fuck up, I don't have the right to redress, because I could very well be dead. If you don't like the government doing the checking, propose an alternative. Because universal, untrained and unaccountable gun ownership isn't a great improvement on illegal gun ownership as far as I am concerned.

nitrogen 14y ago
I think a lot of fear people have of guns is because they are unfamiliar with what they can and cannot do, how to use one properly, how to tell if someone else is using their gun properly, etc. Concealed carry permits already require classes and background checks. Maybe gun safety should be taught to everybody. As further evidence that the fear of guns may be overblown, consider just how widespread gun ownership is, and then consider how rare gun violence is outside of gang-ridden urban centers. I would disagree with any sort of strict liability for one's gun being lost or stolen, but if the gun owner was clearly negligent, then they should bear responsibility.
- knowtheory 14y ago
  Ah, so here's the point where it gets all "us vs them", eh? I have fired guns, enjoy shooting, and several (but not all) of my family members own guns. It's not that I don't believe safe gun ownership is impossible, it's that I don't trust other people, and I would like their failures with potentially lethal tools to have consequences. If you own firearms, you should know where they are, and you should secure them against theft. If they're stolen, you should have to report them. And if you're losing a lot of guns, that should raise red flags, and someone should have a talk with you about responsible gun ownership.
  - curiousdannii 14y ago
    I almost wonder if you should be liable for having a gun stolen, unless you can prove it was adequately secured.
  - nitrogen 14y ago
    I agree with your final paragraph, but disagree that the vast majority of gun owners are worthy of distrust.
    - nitrogen 14y ago
      Too late to edit, so I also wanted to add that my intention with my previous comment is not to create an "us-vs-them" dichotomy, but to try to make the debate more inclusive by teaching everyone how to be safe around guns and how to recognize someone who is not being safe.

nitrogen 14y ago

I think a lot of fear people have of guns is because they are unfamiliar with what they can and cannot do, how to use one properly, how to tell if someone else is using their gun properly, etc. Concealed carry permits already require classes and background checks. Maybe gun safety should be taught to everybody. As further evidence that the fear of guns may be overblown, consider just how widespread gun ownership is, and then consider how rare gun violence is outside of gang-ridden urban centers. I would disagree with any sort of strict liability for one's gun being lost or stolen, but if the gun owner was clearly negligent, then they should bear responsibility.

knowtheory 14y ago
Ah, so here's the point where it gets all "us vs them", eh? I have fired guns, enjoy shooting, and several (but not all) of my family members own guns. It's not that I don't believe safe gun ownership is impossible, it's that I don't trust other people, and I would like their failures with potentially lethal tools to have consequences. If you own firearms, you should know where they are, and you should secure them against theft. If they're stolen, you should have to report them. And if you're losing a lot of guns, that should raise red flags, and someone should have a talk with you about responsible gun ownership.
- curiousdannii 14y ago
  I almost wonder if you should be liable for having a gun stolen, unless you can prove it was adequately secured.
- nitrogen 14y ago
  I agree with your final paragraph, but disagree that the vast majority of gun owners are worthy of distrust.
  - nitrogen 14y ago
    Too late to edit, so I also wanted to add that my intention with my previous comment is not to create an "us-vs-them" dichotomy, but to try to make the debate more inclusive by teaching everyone how to be safe around guns and how to recognize someone who is not being safe.