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Nowhere will ever be violence-free. If guns are not the cause of violence and banning them isn't for the better, why is England a less violent place than Ameri

Nowhere will ever be violence-free. If guns are not the cause of violence and banning them isn't for the better, why is England a less violent place than America? The gun murder rate in England is 0.1 murders per 100,000 people, in America it's 3.2. The problem America has is not exclusively caused by guns, it's a problem with culture too, but it seems strange to argue that connecting the high presence of guns to the high number of gun murders is "a spurious connection, made by lazy thinkers".

kiba 14y ago
If guns are not the cause of violence and banning them isn't for the better, why is England a less violent place than America? The gun murder rate in England is 0.1 murders per 100,000 people, in America it's 3.2. Oh god, stop comparing a huge ass country with states with lot of differing laws to a small european country!
TDL 14y ago
What happens when you include stabbings and beatings?
- citricsquid 14y ago
  A popular misconception is that England has just as much violent crime as America but it's redistributed across other weapons, the reality is that every country counts violent crime differently. If someone were to break into my apartment in England while I was out that is a counted as a violent crime, whereas in America it wouldn't be counted. The only fair way to compare countries is to compare specific crimes (eg: Murder, Robbery) comparing "Violent Crime" doesn't work. For 2011/2012 there were 549 homicides in England[1], for the same period there was ~14,000 in the US[2]. The population of the UK is 62 million, the population of the US is 313 million. There are 6x more people in the US but 28x more homicides, most of which are firearm related. If you remove the firearm homicides from the America figures they become almost the same as the UK figures (in per 100,000 people). [1] http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-statistics-england-wales http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-st... [2] http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/11/us-usa-crime-stats-idUSBRE85A1JZ20120611 http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/11/us-usa-crime-stats...
  - JoeAltmaier 14y ago
    Wait - your numbers come out to something far less than 28X. 28x the homicides divided by 5x the people = 5.6x the rate?
    - citricsquid 14y ago
      28x is based on the raw figures (500 vs. 14,000) not adjusted for the differences in population.
      - JoeAltmaier 14y ago
        Yeah, cause it looks worse that way. How to lie with statistics!
  - RobertHoudin 14y ago
    "For 2011/2012 there were 549 homicides in England[1], for the same period there was ~14,000 in the US[2]. The population of the UK is 62 million, the population of the US is 313 million. There are 6x more people in the US but 28x more homicides" 313 million / 62 million = 5 (not 6). 14,000 / 549 = 25.5 (not 28). You can't just "round" numbers up or down to suit the bias of your argument.

kiba 14y ago

If guns are not the cause of violence and banning them isn't for the better, why is England a less violent place than America? The gun murder rate in England is 0.1 murders per 100,000 people, in America it's 3.2. Oh god, stop comparing a huge ass country with states with lot of differing laws to a small european country!

TDL 14y ago

What happens when you include stabbings and beatings?

citricsquid 14y ago
A popular misconception is that England has just as much violent crime as America but it's redistributed across other weapons, the reality is that every country counts violent crime differently. If someone were to break into my apartment in England while I was out that is a counted as a violent crime, whereas in America it wouldn't be counted. The only fair way to compare countries is to compare specific crimes (eg: Murder, Robbery) comparing "Violent Crime" doesn't work. For 2011/2012 there were 549 homicides in England[1], for the same period there was ~14,000 in the US[2]. The population of the UK is 62 million, the population of the US is 313 million. There are 6x more people in the US but 28x more homicides, most of which are firearm related. If you remove the firearm homicides from the America figures they become almost the same as the UK figures (in per 100,000 people). [1] http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-statistics-england-wales http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-st... [2] http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/11/us-usa-crime-stats-idUSBRE85A1JZ20120611 http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/11/us-usa-crime-stats...
- JoeAltmaier 14y ago
  Wait - your numbers come out to something far less than 28X. 28x the homicides divided by 5x the people = 5.6x the rate?
  - citricsquid 14y ago
    28x is based on the raw figures (500 vs. 14,000) not adjusted for the differences in population.
    - JoeAltmaier 14y ago
      Yeah, cause it looks worse that way. How to lie with statistics!
- RobertHoudin 14y ago
  "For 2011/2012 there were 549 homicides in England[1], for the same period there was ~14,000 in the US[2]. The population of the UK is 62 million, the population of the US is 313 million. There are 6x more people in the US but 28x more homicides" 313 million / 62 million = 5 (not 6). 14,000 / 549 = 25.5 (not 28). You can't just "round" numbers up or down to suit the bias of your argument.