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The "Unknown or expired link" chestnut. Why can't "More" link to ..page=2?
I'm sorry, I know this is Hacker News. But isn't part of hacking actually solving problems (aka removing "schlep blindness"?)
I've put up with the "Unknown or expired link" message for years.
I'm curious - why can't the "More" link just link to news.ycombinator.com/news?page=2 which gives me number #31-60 of the top trending links?
I might miss a post or two in the page transition, but if the post is any good I will see it eventually.
Just curious.
edit: toned the message down a little - it was previously more ranty (which was supposed to be humorous, but some folk might not get that).
- aaronbrethorst 14y agoThere's an explanation for what you see (the fnid values), here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4899745 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4899745 As to why pg can't use normal pagination instead of user-specific state, I dunno, why not just use Ruby or Python (or PHP!) for the site instead of Arc? Short answer is, I suppose, because he can, and he's likely more interested in satisfying intellectual curiosity than designing a normal pagination system. jm2c.
- lutusp 14y ago> As to why pg can't use normal pagination instead of user-specific state, I dunno ... I can think of one reason: * A user loads the front page. * By the time the user clicks "More" at the bottom, page 1, and all subsequent pages, have been updated with new content. * So the server can't provide the old page 2 to a user who just saw the old page 1, for the reason that neither of the original pages even exists any more. * To avoid confusing the reader, instead of providing an out-of-sync page 2, the server instead shows a "expired link" message.
- aaronbrethorst 14y agoI bet that the percentage of people who go to the second page is in the single digits. Personally, I'd happily trade off a little confusion for a simpler, more scalable piece of software. That said, it looks like the HN software is scaling well enough, so more power to the man.
- johnmw 14y agoSingle digits, eh? Wanna put some hard cash on that bet? ;) Thanks for the reply, I've replied to this answer (above/below/Unknown or Expired Link).
- brudgers 14y ago"I suppose, because he can, and he's likely more interested in satisfying intellectual curiosity than designing a normal pagination system." I suspect that PG's approach is something more than peccadillo. The HN software appears to afford a great deal of power for managing the community, and managing the community is much more important than worrying over expired links. I'll add that I've never seen someone quit HN over expired links, but several over community behavior. Seeing as YC applications require HN accounts, it is unlikely that YC takes HN's functions lightly.
- jarek-foksa 14y agoThere is no excuse for having broken pagination, table-based layout and GIF images on a modern site, especially when you are targeting tech users. Those are obvious bugs, not features, that should be fixed right away even if it means introducing more code complexity and some refactoring.
- lutusp 14y ago> Why can't the "More" link just link to news.ycombinator.com/news?page=2 which gives me number #31-60 of the top trending links? 1. HN deals with your interaction by assigning a session index to your initial contact. 2. This index allows HN to keep track of which page of which section you're visiting, so if you click "More" the HN sever knows what do to -- it has a stored context for your request. 3. The HN server has limited resources, so if an index goes unused for more than a few minutes, the server reclaims the index for reuse. 4. If you wait too long before making a server request like clicking "More", it's possible that your index will have been reclaimed and assigned to another user. If this happens, you see the "expired link" message. 5. After your index has expired and been reclaimed, the HN server has no way to interpret your command to proceed -- proceed to where? 6. Also, if you wait long enough, the front page (and all subsidiary pages) will have changed contents, so the pages you're viewing are no longer current, consequently the server can't deliver "page 2" for the simple reason that that version of the page no longer exists.
- johnmw 14y agoThanks for the reply, although I think you are missing my point. I understand how it works technically, but I think this illustrates a classic debate between developer and user/customer. As a developer I can see the functional beauty. As a user, I think it sucks and I don't give a damn about "session indexes". As a user I just want to see the next page of cool links. I think most people here are 'users'. So why not just have a stateless solution? (aka just linking to ..page=2 as suggested?)
- lutusp 14y ago> I think you are missing my point. The reverse. :) > So why not just have a stateless solution? (aka just linking to ..page=2 as suggested?) You seem to have missed the point that, if you wait long enough to advance to page 2, the page that logically follows from the page you're viewing no longer exists (along with the page you're viewing). In other words, assuming that the HN content changes between your initial view and clicking "More", the new page 2 may contain what page 1 contained, and people will complain that they're looking at the same items on page 2 that they viewed on page 1 just five minutes ago.
- lmm 14y agoThere are browser extensions that fix that. Installing one of them is probably more practical than trying to get PG to change his mind.
- grandpoobah 14y agoProbably for the same reason PG disables user registration when HN has been in the news.. keeping non-hackers out or something like that.