6 ms·

Cross Country Freedom Therapy

41 points by aaronjorbin 14y ago

lancewiggs 14y ago
Nice move. I did it once to return from Denver to SF, and caught the train. A wonderful experience. Meanwhile I don't bother visiting the USA much. I could not imagine returning to a life of constant travel there.
ck2 14y ago
It's really sad how everyone just accepted it and will also accept whatever is next and after that. Even if you don't fly, drones are coming soon to watch you every minute of the day that you are outside. Maybe one-day inside too with technology developed ironically from TSA scanners. And people will argue to defend that too, and warrant-less is the new norm. My sympathies to Ryan.
- zapdrive 14y ago
  "He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither."
  - jmspring 14y ago
    Blaming it on the lay people rather than working to change the mindset and the elected officials that enable this will go nowhere. I hadn't been to heathrow in years. Liquids, a kid going loose, and a few other incidents started there. They still use metal detectors and you only need to remove your shoes under some cases. They do require that most devices the size of a kindle or larger be out on its own. Contrast that with SFO which uses private contractors and used to be less inane than the typical TSA. Now, they are in someways worse. Serious attitudes when opting out. TSA, generally consistent in that it is the exception path in the policy. In order to change things like TSA in the US, it will need to start with voters and electing candidates that have a clue. Unfortunately, in the US, we have two minority voting blocks - the informed voter that votes what they feel; and the idiot voter that votes what they are whipped up by some emotion into doing so -- this category typically caters to the Bush is an idiot, Obama is a Muslim, or Obama wants our guns crowd. The silent, non-voting crowd could help out here. Deciding to drive or train may work for you, but it changes very little.
  - rayiner 14y ago
    I hate that quote. We gave up freedom for safety the minute we instituted government so we could have a society where nerds like Zuck could have tremendous wealth even though he can't very well physically defend it against bigger, stronger people. We are so many sheep in the midst of a handful of wolves, and we wanted a society where the sheep could rule, and so we traded some freedoms we had in the statute of nature (the freedom to use force) in return for collective safety. This isn't a matter of whether you give up freedom for safety. It's about how you balance the competing concerns of freedom and security, both of which are important. I certainly agree TSA doesn't strike the right balance, but it's not because its a trade of freedom for security but because it gives you very little security in return for the onerous and invasive process it creates.
    - droithomme 14y ago
      Let's have both. Freedom planes for me, with sane boarding procedures, and safety planes for you, with 4 hour waits while everyone is xrayed, strip-searched, and cavity inspected. I don't begrudge you your choice of guaranteed safety, hopefully you will not begrudge me mine of privacy and freedom.
      - rayiner 14y ago
        I take the train because I can't stand the TSA, and I'm willing to take my chances that someone fires an RPG at a train somewhere along the 500 miles of completely out in the open track on the Northeast Regional. My point is that the TSA is bad not because "zOMG any impingement on freedom is bad!" but because it's just bad. They are too invasive for the imagined security benefits they provide against improbable threats. But going from that to "those who trade freedom for safety deserve neither" is silly. I purposefully choose to live in a city (New York) that has a massive police presence. Why? Because I think its a reasonable trade-off of a little freedom for substantial security. Manhattan is like Disneyland now, and it's great, and I don't care if I would theoretically be more free if there weren't a cop on every corner. We trade freedom for security all the time--it's called organized civilization, and it's a good thing. I hate to quote John Ashcroft, but see his response to this Ben Franklin quote: http://www.justice.gov/archive/ag/speeches/2002/080702eighthcircuitjudgesagremarks.htm http://www.justice.gov/archive/ag/speeches/2002/080702eighth... (first 9 paragraphs)
  - true_religion 14y ago
    Isn't the actual quote more lengthy? As in: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." from Memoirs of the life and writings of Benjamin Franklin (1818). I think the adjectives make all the difference.
    - glogla 14y ago
      It makes the difference (it refutes the "we give up freedom by being civilized" argument that's floating around) but it still works concerning the TSA and such.
    - derleth 14y ago
      The actual quote is a lot better, because it immediately invites debate over what is an 'essential liberty', which is entirely the point. That is, in fact, the entire point of having a government in the first place.
AngryParsley 14y ago
I opt-out of backscatter and millimeter-wave screening every time. I think the TSA is a waste of money and I'd love to see the government take a more calculated approach to security instead of the typical CYA behavior. With that said... His form of protest is to miss a flight he already paid for and hike/bum rides back to Texas? And asking for donations? This guy is a software engineer at Automattic. He's a WordPress developer. His blog is mostly pictures of vegan meals and unboxings: http://ryan.boren.me/ http://ryan.boren.me/. Considering his lifestyle and likely income, asking for donations seems to be rather poor taste. Again I agree with his opinions, but his protest is not accomplishing anything useful. The net effect will be to transfer some money and resources from sympathetic people.
- jrmg 14y ago
  I don't want to give the impression that I agree with everything he says - I don't entirely share his dystopic views on the state of the world, and my views on the TSA are more in line with yours - but I think you're being rather ungenerous. The closest he comes to asking for donations is to say: Several people have already offered places to stay and donated money for travel costs. Thank you so much and be assured that any extra money will be passed on to civil liberties organizations trying to claw back our freedom of movement. I intend to at least double my usual contributions this year. If you mean the donations link at the top of the page, that's clearly for people who want to send a small something in thanks for Wordpress, and I wouldn't call it distasteful. The world would be a sad place if gift giving were relegated to being soley for charitable causes.
  - maxerickson 14y ago
    When I read it, the "donated money" in your quoted text was a link to his donations page.
    - jrmg 14y ago
      You're right, and I didn't notice that (in my defence, the link is not underlined and the link text is really dark on the non-mobile version of the site, so it was easy to look over). That is a bit more of a call to action than I initially thought. I still don't think it was in quite as bad taste as AngryParsley suggested though.
SquareWheel 14y ago
I concur. After having an awful experience with the TSA a couple days ago, I've also given up flying. The entire process is just insulting. And while I'm sure there's many reasons the airline industry is in trouble, I would wager this is a contributing factor.
epoxyhockey 14y ago
One morning at SFO, I was waiting for my pat down, as requested.. The scanner was bogged down with an individual who was continually having to remove jewelry, a watch, a belt, etc as he was re-scanned and re-scanned. I didn't notice it at first, but a line of individuals (mostly adults) started to form behind me very far away from the scanner. It grew to over a dozen people and it was as if they were just trying to find a place to belong while waiting for their turn. After getting over my initial shock of the lemming behavior, I noticed the TSA worker frantically waving at me to lead the line through the metal detector. It was a nice moment to 1) escape a pat down AND a scanner, and 2) in a figurative sense, lead these individuals through a less privacy-invasive screening. But, I was just saddened by how outnumbered I am by people readily willing to give up their rights to privacy.
- vineel 14y ago
  Somewhat unrelated, but still interesting: SFO doesn't actually have a TSA presence. They use a contractor instead. http://www.flysfo.com/web/page/atsfo/saf-sec/ http://www.flysfo.com/web/page/atsfo/saf-sec/
josscrowcroft 14y ago
As far as I'm aware, the new full-body scanners don't record a detailed picture of your body – they just flash green for OK, or red for 'potential bad guy' (at least this seems to be the case in Amsterdam). Thoughts?
DanBC 14y ago
These articles always make me think about: 1) Why risk is handled so badly by governments. 2) Why people are unable to change something so obviously sub-optimal. 3) How unpopular extra screening really is in the general population, rather than how unpopular I think it is from reading all the blogs about it.
cafard 14y ago
I have just gone through the scanners this week, and will do so again next week; I find it more annoying then anything else. However, I do find myself thinking that the Greyhound buses of 30 and 40 years ago had a lot to be said for them--no-hassle travel, and for that matter comfort at least equivalent to coach seats with the current spacing.

41 points by aaronjorbin 14y ago

Nice move. I did it once to return from Denver to SF, and caught the train. A wonderful experience. Meanwhile I don't bother visiting the USA much. I could not imagine returning to a life of constant travel there.

ck2 14y ago

It's really sad how everyone just accepted it and will also accept whatever is next and after that. Even if you don't fly, drones are coming soon to watch you every minute of the day that you are outside. Maybe one-day inside too with technology developed ironically from TSA scanners. And people will argue to defend that too, and warrant-less is the new norm. My sympathies to Ryan.

zapdrive 14y ago
"He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither."
- jmspring 14y ago
  Blaming it on the lay people rather than working to change the mindset and the elected officials that enable this will go nowhere. I hadn't been to heathrow in years. Liquids, a kid going loose, and a few other incidents started there. They still use metal detectors and you only need to remove your shoes under some cases. They do require that most devices the size of a kindle or larger be out on its own. Contrast that with SFO which uses private contractors and used to be less inane than the typical TSA. Now, they are in someways worse. Serious attitudes when opting out. TSA, generally consistent in that it is the exception path in the policy. In order to change things like TSA in the US, it will need to start with voters and electing candidates that have a clue. Unfortunately, in the US, we have two minority voting blocks - the informed voter that votes what they feel; and the idiot voter that votes what they are whipped up by some emotion into doing so -- this category typically caters to the Bush is an idiot, Obama is a Muslim, or Obama wants our guns crowd. The silent, non-voting crowd could help out here. Deciding to drive or train may work for you, but it changes very little.
- rayiner 14y ago
  I hate that quote. We gave up freedom for safety the minute we instituted government so we could have a society where nerds like Zuck could have tremendous wealth even though he can't very well physically defend it against bigger, stronger people. We are so many sheep in the midst of a handful of wolves, and we wanted a society where the sheep could rule, and so we traded some freedoms we had in the statute of nature (the freedom to use force) in return for collective safety. This isn't a matter of whether you give up freedom for safety. It's about how you balance the competing concerns of freedom and security, both of which are important. I certainly agree TSA doesn't strike the right balance, but it's not because its a trade of freedom for security but because it gives you very little security in return for the onerous and invasive process it creates.
  - droithomme 14y ago
    Let's have both. Freedom planes for me, with sane boarding procedures, and safety planes for you, with 4 hour waits while everyone is xrayed, strip-searched, and cavity inspected. I don't begrudge you your choice of guaranteed safety, hopefully you will not begrudge me mine of privacy and freedom.
    - rayiner 14y ago
      I take the train because I can't stand the TSA, and I'm willing to take my chances that someone fires an RPG at a train somewhere along the 500 miles of completely out in the open track on the Northeast Regional. My point is that the TSA is bad not because "zOMG any impingement on freedom is bad!" but because it's just bad. They are too invasive for the imagined security benefits they provide against improbable threats. But going from that to "those who trade freedom for safety deserve neither" is silly. I purposefully choose to live in a city (New York) that has a massive police presence. Why? Because I think its a reasonable trade-off of a little freedom for substantial security. Manhattan is like Disneyland now, and it's great, and I don't care if I would theoretically be more free if there weren't a cop on every corner. We trade freedom for security all the time--it's called organized civilization, and it's a good thing. I hate to quote John Ashcroft, but see his response to this Ben Franklin quote: http://www.justice.gov/archive/ag/speeches/2002/080702eighthcircuitjudgesagremarks.htm http://www.justice.gov/archive/ag/speeches/2002/080702eighth... (first 9 paragraphs)
- true_religion 14y ago
  Isn't the actual quote more lengthy? As in: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." from Memoirs of the life and writings of Benjamin Franklin (1818). I think the adjectives make all the difference.
  - glogla 14y ago
    It makes the difference (it refutes the "we give up freedom by being civilized" argument that's floating around) but it still works concerning the TSA and such.
  - derleth 14y ago
    The actual quote is a lot better, because it immediately invites debate over what is an 'essential liberty', which is entirely the point. That is, in fact, the entire point of having a government in the first place.

AngryParsley 14y ago

I opt-out of backscatter and millimeter-wave screening every time. I think the TSA is a waste of money and I'd love to see the government take a more calculated approach to security instead of the typical CYA behavior. With that said... His form of protest is to miss a flight he already paid for and hike/bum rides back to Texas? And asking for donations? This guy is a software engineer at Automattic. He's a WordPress developer. His blog is mostly pictures of vegan meals and unboxings: http://ryan.boren.me/ http://ryan.boren.me/. Considering his lifestyle and likely income, asking for donations seems to be rather poor taste. Again I agree with his opinions, but his protest is not accomplishing anything useful. The net effect will be to transfer some money and resources from sympathetic people.

jrmg 14y ago
I don't want to give the impression that I agree with everything he says - I don't entirely share his dystopic views on the state of the world, and my views on the TSA are more in line with yours - but I think you're being rather ungenerous. The closest he comes to asking for donations is to say: Several people have already offered places to stay and donated money for travel costs. Thank you so much and be assured that any extra money will be passed on to civil liberties organizations trying to claw back our freedom of movement. I intend to at least double my usual contributions this year. If you mean the donations link at the top of the page, that's clearly for people who want to send a small something in thanks for Wordpress, and I wouldn't call it distasteful. The world would be a sad place if gift giving were relegated to being soley for charitable causes.
- maxerickson 14y ago
  When I read it, the "donated money" in your quoted text was a link to his donations page.
  - jrmg 14y ago
    You're right, and I didn't notice that (in my defence, the link is not underlined and the link text is really dark on the non-mobile version of the site, so it was easy to look over). That is a bit more of a call to action than I initially thought. I still don't think it was in quite as bad taste as AngryParsley suggested though.

SquareWheel 14y ago

I concur. After having an awful experience with the TSA a couple days ago, I've also given up flying. The entire process is just insulting. And while I'm sure there's many reasons the airline industry is in trouble, I would wager this is a contributing factor.

epoxyhockey 14y ago

One morning at SFO, I was waiting for my pat down, as requested.. The scanner was bogged down with an individual who was continually having to remove jewelry, a watch, a belt, etc as he was re-scanned and re-scanned. I didn't notice it at first, but a line of individuals (mostly adults) started to form behind me very far away from the scanner. It grew to over a dozen people and it was as if they were just trying to find a place to belong while waiting for their turn. After getting over my initial shock of the lemming behavior, I noticed the TSA worker frantically waving at me to lead the line through the metal detector. It was a nice moment to 1) escape a pat down AND a scanner, and 2) in a figurative sense, lead these individuals through a less privacy-invasive screening. But, I was just saddened by how outnumbered I am by people readily willing to give up their rights to privacy.

vineel 14y ago
Somewhat unrelated, but still interesting: SFO doesn't actually have a TSA presence. They use a contractor instead. http://www.flysfo.com/web/page/atsfo/saf-sec/ http://www.flysfo.com/web/page/atsfo/saf-sec/

josscrowcroft 14y ago

As far as I'm aware, the new full-body scanners don't record a detailed picture of your body – they just flash green for OK, or red for 'potential bad guy' (at least this seems to be the case in Amsterdam). Thoughts?

DanBC 14y ago

These articles always make me think about: 1) Why risk is handled so badly by governments. 2) Why people are unable to change something so obviously sub-optimal. 3) How unpopular extra screening really is in the general population, rather than how unpopular I think it is from reading all the blogs about it.

cafard 14y ago

I have just gone through the scanners this week, and will do so again next week; I find it more annoying then anything else. However, I do find myself thinking that the Greyhound buses of 30 and 40 years ago had a lot to be said for them--no-hassle travel, and for that matter comfort at least equivalent to coach seats with the current spacing.