5 ms·

A job interview is going to take at least a day of your time anyway. What does it matter if that time is spent programming, talking over coffee, sketching on a

by pseut 14y ago

A job interview is going to take at least a day of your time anyway. What does it matter if that time is spent programming, talking over coffee, sketching on a whiteboard, or whatever?

ebiester 14y ago
Many interviews I've had are 2 hour affairs, including jobs I've received where interviews were 45 minutes.
- pseut 14y ago
  I guess it depends on the position, but the point still stands. Given that you spend x amount of time interviewing, what does it matter how it's spent? (with the obvious caveats that if they spend, say, 3 hours screaming at you as a stress test, you probably don't want to work there, etc etc).
brown9-2 14y ago
Well with a "regular" interview, it's pretty unlikely that the company is going to make any money off of the direct output of the interview. When helping them develop a feature or product, it's slightly different.
- pseut 14y ago
  And...? I'm in academia. I've had job interviews where I've literally gone office to office discussing people's research projects and helping them come up with ideas. It was fun, and it never occurred to me that I was being taken advantage of. Worst case scenario, they might think of me as a potential consultant down the line.
ry0ohki 14y ago
Pretend it's not tech, and Starbucks interview consisted of you working as a barista for a day, or Goldman Sachs wanted you to trade stocks for a day, etc...
- pseut 14y ago
  I'm not sure that I have a constructive way of replying to this. Can you spell out your objections, instead of trying to jostle my imagination? You act like no one's been fired after their first day at Starbucks.
  - ry0ohki 14y ago
    My point is that having someone work a day for free would be great in any industry, but somehow only we in tech tolerate this, why is it different?
    - pseut 14y ago
      Having a random applicant "work" a day for free is a pretty crappy proposition in most industries; I suspect tech isn't much different. You gave an example of asking a job applicant for goldman sachs to "trade stocks for a day." Are you kidding? Do you realize how much money a bad applicant could lose in a day? If it's different in tech, it's only because it's (often) easy and painless to roll back an applicant's mistakes. There are a few ways to approach a job interview. The one I like is to say, "I'm a professional working in this area; those people are professionals working in this area; I should learn what they're up to and we should see if it makes sense for us to work together right now" and right now is key, because sometimes the timing or the particular projects aren't a good match, but the people are and you'll want to stay in touch in the future. One nice non-coincidental advantage of treating it this way is that "success" is a lot easier to achieve, so the interview's going to be a lot less stressful. So now approach it from that perspective. You could spend a day (or two hours, or two days, or whatever interview duration) chit chatting, talking to HR people about benefits, describing past projects and whatever. But time is really short and the important questions are: what are you actually going to be working on? and are the people you'll be working with any good? Are their experience, personality, skills, etc. going to set you up to do well, help your career, get stuff out the door, and whatever other concerns you have. How are you possibly going to learn any of that without talking to them at length and in detail about their projects? And the best way to "talk in detail" is to pretend you have the job for a day and get up to speed. So are you now "working a day for free?" Not really. Because, if the people you're interviewing with are people you'd want to work with, they've had a lot longer than you to think about their problems and know a shitload about them. If you contribute anything of value that day, they probably would have gotten as much value from talking their sticking points over with any bright, engaged outsider to get a fresh perspective. In the rare occasions where the applicant really does provide high value consulting for free for a day, he or she should have known better than to interview there in the first place. If there really was no way to know in advance, just accept that you had a dud of an interview and go on with your life. You've still learned whether that particular company is one you'd want to have a business relationship with in the future, which is valuable, and whether any of their employees are particularly good or bad, which is also valuable; and, if the company has the right values, there's a good chance that they'd want to hire you for contract work. So even those interviews still tend to work out. tl;dr - when you interview for a job, no matter what, you're working. You'll get the most out of it as an interviewee if you take it seriously as work and try to get as close to the day-to-day job as you possibly can. If the company materially benefits as well, even better.

by pseut 14y ago

A job interview is going to take at least a day of your time anyway. What does it matter if that time is spent programming, talking over coffee, sketching on a whiteboard, or whatever?

ebiester 14y ago

Many interviews I've had are 2 hour affairs, including jobs I've received where interviews were 45 minutes.

pseut 14y ago
I guess it depends on the position, but the point still stands. Given that you spend x amount of time interviewing, what does it matter how it's spent? (with the obvious caveats that if they spend, say, 3 hours screaming at you as a stress test, you probably don't want to work there, etc etc).

brown9-2 14y ago

Well with a "regular" interview, it's pretty unlikely that the company is going to make any money off of the direct output of the interview. When helping them develop a feature or product, it's slightly different.

pseut 14y ago
And...? I'm in academia. I've had job interviews where I've literally gone office to office discussing people's research projects and helping them come up with ideas. It was fun, and it never occurred to me that I was being taken advantage of. Worst case scenario, they might think of me as a potential consultant down the line.

ry0ohki 14y ago

Pretend it's not tech, and Starbucks interview consisted of you working as a barista for a day, or Goldman Sachs wanted you to trade stocks for a day, etc...

pseut 14y ago
I'm not sure that I have a constructive way of replying to this. Can you spell out your objections, instead of trying to jostle my imagination? You act like no one's been fired after their first day at Starbucks.
- ry0ohki 14y ago
  My point is that having someone work a day for free would be great in any industry, but somehow only we in tech tolerate this, why is it different?
  - pseut 14y ago
    Having a random applicant "work" a day for free is a pretty crappy proposition in most industries; I suspect tech isn't much different. You gave an example of asking a job applicant for goldman sachs to "trade stocks for a day." Are you kidding? Do you realize how much money a bad applicant could lose in a day? If it's different in tech, it's only because it's (often) easy and painless to roll back an applicant's mistakes. There are a few ways to approach a job interview. The one I like is to say, "I'm a professional working in this area; those people are professionals working in this area; I should learn what they're up to and we should see if it makes sense for us to work together right now" and right now is key, because sometimes the timing or the particular projects aren't a good match, but the people are and you'll want to stay in touch in the future. One nice non-coincidental advantage of treating it this way is that "success" is a lot easier to achieve, so the interview's going to be a lot less stressful. So now approach it from that perspective. You could spend a day (or two hours, or two days, or whatever interview duration) chit chatting, talking to HR people about benefits, describing past projects and whatever. But time is really short and the important questions are: what are you actually going to be working on? and are the people you'll be working with any good? Are their experience, personality, skills, etc. going to set you up to do well, help your career, get stuff out the door, and whatever other concerns you have. How are you possibly going to learn any of that without talking to them at length and in detail about their projects? And the best way to "talk in detail" is to pretend you have the job for a day and get up to speed. So are you now "working a day for free?" Not really. Because, if the people you're interviewing with are people you'd want to work with, they've had a lot longer than you to think about their problems and know a shitload about them. If you contribute anything of value that day, they probably would have gotten as much value from talking their sticking points over with any bright, engaged outsider to get a fresh perspective. In the rare occasions where the applicant really does provide high value consulting for free for a day, he or she should have known better than to interview there in the first place. If there really was no way to know in advance, just accept that you had a dud of an interview and go on with your life. You've still learned whether that particular company is one you'd want to have a business relationship with in the future, which is valuable, and whether any of their employees are particularly good or bad, which is also valuable; and, if the company has the right values, there's a good chance that they'd want to hire you for contract work. So even those interviews still tend to work out. tl;dr - when you interview for a job, no matter what, you're working. You'll get the most out of it as an interviewee if you take it seriously as work and try to get as close to the day-to-day job as you possibly can. If the company materially benefits as well, even better.