5 ms·

Depends on the country and how much the population is mixed. Yes, it may sound evil or anti-immigrant, but it does not matter where, if the location has people

by speeder 14y ago

Depends on the country and how much the population is mixed. Yes, it may sound evil or anti-immigrant, but it does not matter where, if the location has people of uniform ethnic identity, they tend to treat everyone around them as distant cousins (and there are biological reasons for that) and some negative actions people don't feel like doing it. In places with lots of random ethinic identities mixed, leaving your baby outside is BAAAAAAD idea.

PavlovsCat 14y ago
Nordic countries are just as diverse as the US.
- speeder 14y ago
  I do not mean specifically the US. And Sweden is NOT diverse as US, Sweden has as the "biggest minority" the Finnish (that are not that different from Swedes), any other population is very small except on some specific cities. US has a great population of people from several backgrounds. Also the same is in my country (Brazil). Here, I see people being much more lax with their security when everyone near them are of the same ethnic background, be it white, black, native american, whatever. It is just that everyone is born to not trust strangers, foreigners, etc... And "race" is a very quick way to assess that. Not that I think we should go hating each other or anything like that, but it is how it works, and it is very visible, the more mixed a place is, the less people trust each other, with some specific exceptions (ie: places that are truly cosmopolitan like Universities or some workplace cities).
  - vinkelhake 14y ago
    The Finnish minority is followed closely by immigrants from former Yugoslavia (166k vs 155k). Sweden has accepted a large number of refugees from Iraq & Iran, together they outnumber the Fins. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden
  - guylhem 14y ago
    As shocking as it may sound, I noticed the same thing in the caribbean where population is very mixed. It's not about racism - it's more as if a shared group identity encouraged cooperative behaviour. Even weirder - there seems to be a trigger effect : until the non visible minority reaches 5% the cooperative behaviour keeps working. Funny thing - it seems to works even if you account your own ethnicity - i.e. when you are in the <5% you will get more cooperation by people with a different ethnicity than you !! Cross the 5% mark and it won't work as well - apparently even with people of the same ethnicity as you. Weird. Some may call that parochialism. I find that interesting. I've been quite puzzled by this (it contradicts all the mainstream thoughts about diversity) and I would love to know more about such issues (scientific research - can anyone with a sociology background give more details about that?)
  - PavlovsCat 14y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model Here. Why shouldn't something like education, and generally doing a great job at not being completely depraved by consumerism, lead to less stupidity, and therefore also less stupidity in the form of racism? Why assume instead they're just as racist, but it's just they're all the same, so they trust each other? You can't just latch on to the first random thing that comes to mind, to me there is zero indication that any of this has to do with racial diversity, and pointing out differences in said diversity, even if I accepted them, would still be a non-sequitur, correlation ain't causation. Maybe these people have simply realized there isn't any point whatsover in stealing random babies, which is not rocket surgery. Kidnapping? Sure. But stealing babies because you care less about people because they have a different skin colour? WTF. That's such a brainfart if you ask me.
  - nacker 14y ago
    Heck, in Brazil your baby isn't safe even if you are keeping it in your womb ! http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mother-reunited-with-baby-stolen-from-her-womb-1374078 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mother-reunited-with-ba...
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- mrgoldenbrown 14y ago
  Do you have some stats to back that up? What is the non white population in Norway? The cia worldbook seems to say it is over 94%: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2075.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...
  - speeder 14y ago
    Cia Factbook on norway: Norwegians + Sami 94.4% Other europeans: 3.6% Sweden according to wikipedia (and CIA factbook) has most of the population being Swede + Sami Cia factbook on United States: 79.96% are white, but this include some hispanics. Brazil the most recent census (I will find the link to IBGE site later) is about 45% of the population being white. almost 50% being mixed race (usually between black and white) 5% black (and some below 1% minorities).
  - bjornsing 14y ago
    As irrefutable proof I give you Fox News: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2qTdFX6thg&t=0m13s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2qTdFX6thg&t=0m13s. ;) I live in Malmö and IMHO FN didn't quite live up to it's "fair and balanced" motto here. :) On a more serious note I'd say the nordic countries are much more homogeneous than the US, ethnically and politically.
    - dalke 14y ago
      Politically? I moved to Göteborg a few years back. The day after I arrived was May Day. The Socialists, Marxists, Marxist-Leninists, Social Democrats, Leftists, and Red Front political parties each had their own march. Then of course the Christian Democrats, the Moderates, Center Party, and the Green Party are 5 of the 8 parties with representation in Parliament. (The Pirate Party has 2 people representing Sweden in the European Parliament.) In the US there's the two major parties, and Bernie Sanders as the only self-described socialist in Congress. In non-national offices there is a handful of Greens and Libertarians. When was the last time you saw people who were self-described as something other than Republican, Democrat, or independent as a regular commentator on a political discussion show in the US? That seems like a lack of political diversity in the US, compared to Sweden.
- greenert 14y ago
  I did a very basic search for racial demographics of Sweden, the US and Brazil (since someone else mentioned it), then calculated the Shannon diversity index (lower essentially meaning less diversity) and the Pielou evenness (a number between 0 and 1 - higher means less size variation among groups). I didn't find great numbers to work with in the few minutes that I looked. I used these: US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Race_and_ethnicity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Stat... Brazil: http://www.indexmundi.com/brazil/demographics_profile.html http://www.indexmundi.com/brazil/demographics_profile.html Sweden: http://www.populstat.info/Europe/swedeng.htm http://www.populstat.info/Europe/swedeng.htm And got: US: With Hispanic/non-hispanic breakdown Shannon: 1.258355 Pielou: 0.5064 Without breakdown Shannon: 0.9705 Pielou: 0.4987 Sweden: Shannon: 0.4498 Pielou: 0.2795 Brazil: Shannon: 0.9509 Pielou: 0.5908 So in terms of diversity, US >= Brazil > Sweden.
abraininavat 14y ago
Do you have any evidence or other basis for this belief? Or is it just a hunch that you share as if it was fact?
- barry-cotter 14y ago
  Robert Putnam's research confirms that ethnic diversity reduces trust levels and civic engagement, even when the ethnic diversity is as risible as Norwegian vs Swedish Americans in, say, Minnesota. If I recall correctly he's a Harvard faculty member in either sociology or political science. He wrote Boewling Alone and he sat on those results for like, three years because his political preferences are typical for his position. The explanation the grandparent offered may be wrong but the phenomenom is real.

by speeder 14y ago

PavlovsCat 14y ago

Nordic countries are just as diverse as the US.

speeder 14y ago
I do not mean specifically the US. And Sweden is NOT diverse as US, Sweden has as the "biggest minority" the Finnish (that are not that different from Swedes), any other population is very small except on some specific cities. US has a great population of people from several backgrounds. Also the same is in my country (Brazil). Here, I see people being much more lax with their security when everyone near them are of the same ethnic background, be it white, black, native american, whatever. It is just that everyone is born to not trust strangers, foreigners, etc... And "race" is a very quick way to assess that. Not that I think we should go hating each other or anything like that, but it is how it works, and it is very visible, the more mixed a place is, the less people trust each other, with some specific exceptions (ie: places that are truly cosmopolitan like Universities or some workplace cities).
- vinkelhake 14y ago
  The Finnish minority is followed closely by immigrants from former Yugoslavia (166k vs 155k). Sweden has accepted a large number of refugees from Iraq & Iran, together they outnumber the Fins. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden
- guylhem 14y ago
  As shocking as it may sound, I noticed the same thing in the caribbean where population is very mixed. It's not about racism - it's more as if a shared group identity encouraged cooperative behaviour. Even weirder - there seems to be a trigger effect : until the non visible minority reaches 5% the cooperative behaviour keeps working. Funny thing - it seems to works even if you account your own ethnicity - i.e. when you are in the <5% you will get more cooperation by people with a different ethnicity than you !! Cross the 5% mark and it won't work as well - apparently even with people of the same ethnicity as you. Weird. Some may call that parochialism. I find that interesting. I've been quite puzzled by this (it contradicts all the mainstream thoughts about diversity) and I would love to know more about such issues (scientific research - can anyone with a sociology background give more details about that?)
- PavlovsCat 14y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model Here. Why shouldn't something like education, and generally doing a great job at not being completely depraved by consumerism, lead to less stupidity, and therefore also less stupidity in the form of racism? Why assume instead they're just as racist, but it's just they're all the same, so they trust each other? You can't just latch on to the first random thing that comes to mind, to me there is zero indication that any of this has to do with racial diversity, and pointing out differences in said diversity, even if I accepted them, would still be a non-sequitur, correlation ain't causation. Maybe these people have simply realized there isn't any point whatsover in stealing random babies, which is not rocket surgery. Kidnapping? Sure. But stealing babies because you care less about people because they have a different skin colour? WTF. That's such a brainfart if you ask me.
- nacker 14y ago
  Heck, in Brazil your baby isn't safe even if you are keeping it in your womb ! http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mother-reunited-with-baby-stolen-from-her-womb-1374078 http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mother-reunited-with-ba...
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
mrgoldenbrown 14y ago
Do you have some stats to back that up? What is the non white population in Norway? The cia worldbook seems to say it is over 94%: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2075.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...
- speeder 14y ago
  Cia Factbook on norway: Norwegians + Sami 94.4% Other europeans: 3.6% Sweden according to wikipedia (and CIA factbook) has most of the population being Swede + Sami Cia factbook on United States: 79.96% are white, but this include some hispanics. Brazil the most recent census (I will find the link to IBGE site later) is about 45% of the population being white. almost 50% being mixed race (usually between black and white) 5% black (and some below 1% minorities).
- bjornsing 14y ago
  As irrefutable proof I give you Fox News: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2qTdFX6thg&t=0m13s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2qTdFX6thg&t=0m13s. ;) I live in Malmö and IMHO FN didn't quite live up to it's "fair and balanced" motto here. :) On a more serious note I'd say the nordic countries are much more homogeneous than the US, ethnically and politically.
  - dalke 14y ago
    Politically? I moved to Göteborg a few years back. The day after I arrived was May Day. The Socialists, Marxists, Marxist-Leninists, Social Democrats, Leftists, and Red Front political parties each had their own march. Then of course the Christian Democrats, the Moderates, Center Party, and the Green Party are 5 of the 8 parties with representation in Parliament. (The Pirate Party has 2 people representing Sweden in the European Parliament.) In the US there's the two major parties, and Bernie Sanders as the only self-described socialist in Congress. In non-national offices there is a handful of Greens and Libertarians. When was the last time you saw people who were self-described as something other than Republican, Democrat, or independent as a regular commentator on a political discussion show in the US? That seems like a lack of political diversity in the US, compared to Sweden.
greenert 14y ago
I did a very basic search for racial demographics of Sweden, the US and Brazil (since someone else mentioned it), then calculated the Shannon diversity index (lower essentially meaning less diversity) and the Pielou evenness (a number between 0 and 1 - higher means less size variation among groups). I didn't find great numbers to work with in the few minutes that I looked. I used these: US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Race_and_ethnicity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Stat... Brazil: http://www.indexmundi.com/brazil/demographics_profile.html http://www.indexmundi.com/brazil/demographics_profile.html Sweden: http://www.populstat.info/Europe/swedeng.htm http://www.populstat.info/Europe/swedeng.htm And got: US: With Hispanic/non-hispanic breakdown Shannon: 1.258355 Pielou: 0.5064 Without breakdown Shannon: 0.9705 Pielou: 0.4987 Sweden: Shannon: 0.4498 Pielou: 0.2795 Brazil: Shannon: 0.9509 Pielou: 0.5908 So in terms of diversity, US >= Brazil > Sweden.

abraininavat 14y ago

Do you have any evidence or other basis for this belief? Or is it just a hunch that you share as if it was fact?

barry-cotter 14y ago
Robert Putnam's research confirms that ethnic diversity reduces trust levels and civic engagement, even when the ethnic diversity is as risible as Norwegian vs Swedish Americans in, say, Minnesota. If I recall correctly he's a Harvard faculty member in either sociology or political science. He wrote Boewling Alone and he sat on those results for like, three years because his political preferences are typical for his position. The explanation the grandparent offered may be wrong but the phenomenom is real.