5 ms·

The Long Thought

33 points by revorad 14y ago

danso 14y ago
I wonder if some day researchers were to conduct a longitudinal study on Internet users, what they would find about how a person's quality of online discussion changes over a decade (or two)? If that user started with USENET and BBS, did they shun Twitter and Facebook, or did they embrace those shorter-form, less deliberative discussions while continuing to engage in substantial discussions in other forums? How frequently do users whose first Internet conversations began on AIM/Twitter/Facebook migrate over to actual discussion boards? I hope the findings would show growth, but I'm not optimistic.
- nollidge 14y ago
  I believe I detect a tacit assumption that there's a correlation between quality and message length. Long-form encourages repetitive rumination, digression, and purple prose at least as much as it does detail & ornate linguistic aesthetics. And short-form encourages wit and clarity as least as much as haste and inattention.
bhousel 14y ago
"I am learning something. The article I’m lightly consuming has become bookmarked in my head, and if it comes up in casual conversation later in the day, I can vigorously nod and say, “Yes, yes, I read that”. But I haven’t really. I noted the shortest version of it; I can quote the simplest version of it. I have a facade of the story and the illusion of knowledge. I miss long thoughts." Ok, I miss them too. But I read Rand's blog post twice and I don't get the connection. Forums were never about the long thought. Neither were BBSs. And while the current forum mess of vBulletin/phpBB/etc could definitely use an update, Discourse won't solve the "long thought" problem. Long thoughts won't happen unless you make time for them. There's just no way around it. For me, that means I spend more time on longform.org or reading actual books, and less time on Facebook/Twitter/HackerNews. Edit: yes, thanks for the correction, I did mean longform.org
- fusiongyro 14y ago
  Longform.com looks like a placeholder to me.
  - revorad 14y ago
    I think bhousel meant http://longform.org/ http://longform.org/ There's also: http://longreads.com/ http://longreads.com/ http://www.aldaily.com/ http://www.aldaily.com/ http://www.edge.org/ http://www.edge.org/
psadri 14y ago
I have definitely noticed my attention span reduced over the years. I first noticed ... <pause> what were we talking about?
chrisduesing 14y ago
It seems like there are two issues. The first, addressed by BBS's was small communities have self enforced norms. This went away when forums were open to the internet. How do we recapture small communities? The second is the idea of a long form discussion. I don't think BBS's and forums were ever about this. Actually, have we ever had a solution to this? Where can someone write a long, thoughtful piece of prose and have long thoughtful answers delivered back in the same place? Even blog comments tend to be disorganized, devolve, and get side tracked.

33 points by revorad 14y ago

danso 14y ago

I wonder if some day researchers were to conduct a longitudinal study on Internet users, what they would find about how a person's quality of online discussion changes over a decade (or two)? If that user started with USENET and BBS, did they shun Twitter and Facebook, or did they embrace those shorter-form, less deliberative discussions while continuing to engage in substantial discussions in other forums? How frequently do users whose first Internet conversations began on AIM/Twitter/Facebook migrate over to actual discussion boards? I hope the findings would show growth, but I'm not optimistic.

nollidge 14y ago
I believe I detect a tacit assumption that there's a correlation between quality and message length. Long-form encourages repetitive rumination, digression, and purple prose at least as much as it does detail & ornate linguistic aesthetics. And short-form encourages wit and clarity as least as much as haste and inattention.

bhousel 14y ago

"I am learning something. The article I’m lightly consuming has become bookmarked in my head, and if it comes up in casual conversation later in the day, I can vigorously nod and say, “Yes, yes, I read that”. But I haven’t really. I noted the shortest version of it; I can quote the simplest version of it. I have a facade of the story and the illusion of knowledge. I miss long thoughts." Ok, I miss them too. But I read Rand's blog post twice and I don't get the connection. Forums were never about the long thought. Neither were BBSs. And while the current forum mess of vBulletin/phpBB/etc could definitely use an update, Discourse won't solve the "long thought" problem. Long thoughts won't happen unless you make time for them. There's just no way around it. For me, that means I spend more time on longform.org or reading actual books, and less time on Facebook/Twitter/HackerNews. Edit: yes, thanks for the correction, I did mean longform.org

fusiongyro 14y ago
Longform.com looks like a placeholder to me.
- revorad 14y ago
  I think bhousel meant http://longform.org/ http://longform.org/ There's also: http://longreads.com/ http://longreads.com/ http://www.aldaily.com/ http://www.aldaily.com/ http://www.edge.org/ http://www.edge.org/

psadri 14y ago

I have definitely noticed my attention span reduced over the years. I first noticed ... <pause> what were we talking about?

chrisduesing 14y ago

It seems like there are two issues. The first, addressed by BBS's was small communities have self enforced norms. This went away when forums were open to the internet. How do we recapture small communities? The second is the idea of a long form discussion. I don't think BBS's and forums were ever about this. Actually, have we ever had a solution to this? Where can someone write a long, thoughtful piece of prose and have long thoughtful answers delivered back in the same place? Even blog comments tend to be disorganized, devolve, and get side tracked.