5 ms·

I don't think it has ever been disputed that piracy helps the pirates, as is confirmed by this article. I think most of the debate has centered around whether

by codex 14y ago

I don't think it has ever been disputed that piracy helps the pirates, as is confirmed by this article. I think most of the debate has centered around whether it helps society as a whole. In some ways the patent system discourages the industrial espionage described here by enforcing protection in return for disclosure, but could also be interpreted as the haves suppressing the have nots.

forgottenpaswrd 14y ago
I believe there is not debate at all that not respecting patents helps societies that have not developed technology as a whole. If it not were for USA importing machinery and not respecting foreign "IP", USA would be a de facto colony of foreign nations. They will only be able to sell raw source materials very cheap, and will have to import very expensive machines, while being dominated by war with industrialized countries. E.g. Why the US today invades Irak or Afganistan to get cheap goods, like oil?, because those countries don't have industry on their own to defend itself from the drones, tanks or missiles of the invader. They could only use light weapons against cameras, satellites and aircraft carriers.
- ajuc 14y ago
  Yep. That's the point people criticizing piracy in less developed countries tend to overlook - without piracy the current difference between a few innovative countries and everybody else will be only growing. You cannot catch up after such a big delay without breaking the rules (rules set by the countries that are leading, btw, and have no business in helping their possible competitors). Internet, piracy, and complete disregard towards patents is what makes developing countries possible. Otherways we would only have developed countries and their economical colonies.
joseflavio 14y ago
The problem is that US want keep less developed countries as de facto colonies, the same way UK tried to keep US as a colony. I am pretty sure that patents are good for the American Society, but not for the poor countries... On top of this US tries to convince with Propaganda that patents are "rights" or "property", while in truth they are artificial monopolies only possible through strong state regulation.
- emn13 14y ago
  I don't believe patents and copyrights help even the US. They help a very select few that have the means and skills to use the system. The average person, and even the average creator loses out. Creativity for artistic purposes (or for matters of conviction) seems to have thrived since well before the concept of IP; and while the kind of content that's produced now is different (e.g. huge mass-market films), I don't believe it's intrinsically better or better enough to impose such restrictions on everyone. So the argument would have to be carried based on the more mundane practical benefits - useful devices people actually have that they would not otherwise have had, say. But here too it seems that such laws strongly favor the creation of monopolies or oligopolies and don't favor long-term positive developments (e.g. apple, microsoft, google). I.e. it's mostly a weapon to prevent competition, not an incentive to promote the useful arts. Hence we get these long periods of stagnation between disruptive new businesses - the existing oligopolists are naturally very good at keeping out newcomers that they need to be disruptive to actually have a chance. That's not a good thing; it's a signal that there's not enough competition and development normally. It's well known that small, vocal interests are very effective at getting what they want; so it shouldn't come as a surprise for the balance to have shifted to the overall detriment of society and in favor of rent-seekers. I think of it as a kind of like distorting farming subsidies + tariffs. It's hard to get rid of em without hurting somebody, but that doesn't mean they're not doing harm.
- rayiner 14y ago
  > The problem is that US want keep less developed countries as de facto colonies, I don't see how this is a problem for the U.S. The U.S. should, and indeed arguably has a moral obligation, to push for policies that benefit its citizens. > On top of this US tries to convince with Propaganda that patents are "rights" or "property", while in truth they are artificial monopolies only possible through strong state regulation. This is no more or less true than for any kind of property right. Without strong state regulation, the only "property right" you have is to whatever you can physically defend. I'd imagine most people posting here would not be in the same place in the overall hierarchy in such a world...
  - MichaelGG 14y ago

by codex 14y ago

forgottenpaswrd 14y ago

I believe there is not debate at all that not respecting patents helps societies that have not developed technology as a whole. If it not were for USA importing machinery and not respecting foreign "IP", USA would be a de facto colony of foreign nations. They will only be able to sell raw source materials very cheap, and will have to import very expensive machines, while being dominated by war with industrialized countries. E.g. Why the US today invades Irak or Afganistan to get cheap goods, like oil?, because those countries don't have industry on their own to defend itself from the drones, tanks or missiles of the invader. They could only use light weapons against cameras, satellites and aircraft carriers.

ajuc 14y ago
Yep. That's the point people criticizing piracy in less developed countries tend to overlook - without piracy the current difference between a few innovative countries and everybody else will be only growing. You cannot catch up after such a big delay without breaking the rules (rules set by the countries that are leading, btw, and have no business in helping their possible competitors). Internet, piracy, and complete disregard towards patents is what makes developing countries possible. Otherways we would only have developed countries and their economical colonies.

joseflavio 14y ago

The problem is that US want keep less developed countries as de facto colonies, the same way UK tried to keep US as a colony. I am pretty sure that patents are good for the American Society, but not for the poor countries... On top of this US tries to convince with Propaganda that patents are "rights" or "property", while in truth they are artificial monopolies only possible through strong state regulation.

emn13 14y ago
I don't believe patents and copyrights help even the US. They help a very select few that have the means and skills to use the system. The average person, and even the average creator loses out. Creativity for artistic purposes (or for matters of conviction) seems to have thrived since well before the concept of IP; and while the kind of content that's produced now is different (e.g. huge mass-market films), I don't believe it's intrinsically better or better enough to impose such restrictions on everyone. So the argument would have to be carried based on the more mundane practical benefits - useful devices people actually have that they would not otherwise have had, say. But here too it seems that such laws strongly favor the creation of monopolies or oligopolies and don't favor long-term positive developments (e.g. apple, microsoft, google). I.e. it's mostly a weapon to prevent competition, not an incentive to promote the useful arts. Hence we get these long periods of stagnation between disruptive new businesses - the existing oligopolists are naturally very good at keeping out newcomers that they need to be disruptive to actually have a chance. That's not a good thing; it's a signal that there's not enough competition and development normally. It's well known that small, vocal interests are very effective at getting what they want; so it shouldn't come as a surprise for the balance to have shifted to the overall detriment of society and in favor of rent-seekers. I think of it as a kind of like distorting farming subsidies + tariffs. It's hard to get rid of em without hurting somebody, but that doesn't mean they're not doing harm.
rayiner 14y ago
> The problem is that US want keep less developed countries as de facto colonies, I don't see how this is a problem for the U.S. The U.S. should, and indeed arguably has a moral obligation, to push for policies that benefit its citizens. > On top of this US tries to convince with Propaganda that patents are "rights" or "property", while in truth they are artificial monopolies only possible through strong state regulation. This is no more or less true than for any kind of property right. Without strong state regulation, the only "property right" you have is to whatever you can physically defend. I'd imagine most people posting here would not be in the same place in the overall hierarchy in such a world...
- MichaelGG 14y ago