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I bought a 2012 Golf TDI a few months ago. I really like the diesel engine (that pull you feel when accelerating up a hill is exhilarating). It was the only car

by buss 14y ago

I bought a 2012 Golf TDI a few months ago. I really like the diesel engine (that pull you feel when accelerating up a hill is exhilarating). It was the only car I drove (in my price range) that actually made me enjoy the experience. A few drawbacks, though: * The DSG transmission has a weird bug that causes some lurching at low speeds, like the transmission suddenly up & down-shifts repeatedly. Many drivers report this same issue but my dealership won't acknowledge the problem. They have been unable to reproduce it. I can reproduce it every morning when leaving the parking garage. * Diesel is an oily fuel that does not evaporate. Most pumps I use have a nice layer of diesel coating the handle that never goes away. I now have to wash my hands after every fueling. * The TDI engine adds a bunch to the price of the car. Hopefully the claims that the engine needs less maintenance will be true and will help offset the initial extra cost. I easily get 32 mpg with combined city and brief highway every day. On long trips it's easy to get up to 42-46 mpg, so that should help offset the extra cost too. * Diesel is currently more expensive than gasoline, but I'm betting on that changing in the future. Diesel powers industry which should have a more constant and predictable demand curve. It shouldn't be subject to the drastic price fluctuations that gasoline sees. We'll see how that works out.

stcredzero 14y ago
> Most pumps I use have a nice layer of diesel coating the handle that never goes away. I now have to wash my hands after every fueling. Disposable nitrile gloves.
- pasbesoin 14y ago
  I had a similar thought. When I have to fill up the portable tank for the lawn mower, I take some disposable latex gloves along. (Exposure is a short enough period of time that this seems to provide adequate protection for gasoline, at least based on the "smell test".) It's slightly wasteful, I suppose. OTOH, a random piece of plastic packaging discarded may be more wasteful. And I'd prefer to keep that stuff out of my innards. And, since gas cans in the U.S. have all been redesigned to store the pouring spout internally, I haven't found one that does not force me to get gasoline all over my hands when I use it. On sale, the latex gloves are something like US$3.50 for a box of 50 (25 pair). I think I've seen nitrile gloves for not a lot more.
  - stcredzero 14y ago
    The nitrile gloves are worth it. Petroleum products don't wreck them nearly as quickly as with latex.
  - akandiah 14y ago
    As noted by stcredzero, nitrile rubber performs much better when handling oil-based products. Although its physical and chemical properties vary depending on the polymer’s composition of nitrile, this form of synthetic rubber is generally resistant to oil, fuel, and other chemicals (the more nitrile within the polymer, the higher the resistance to oils but the lower the flexibility of the material). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrile_rubber http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrile_rubber
duaneb 14y ago
> * The DSG transmission has a weird bug that causes some lurching at low speeds, like the transmission suddenly up & down-shifts repeatedly. Many drivers report this same issue but my dealership won't acknowledge the problem. They have been unable to reproduce it. I can reproduce it every morning when leaving the parking garage. Is it available in manual? If so, I want it.
- jmspring 14y ago
  My Jetta Sportwagen (2010) is a manual TDI. I'd never go with a DSG for two reasons: 1. I like manual transmissions. 2. The added maintenance costs for the DSG for factory service is around $1k at the 40k mile point.
  - buss 14y ago
    If you like manual, then the manual TDI will be very fun to drive. I can't be bothered with manual transmission, though. I have paddle shifters for the DSG but I never use them.
    - duaneb 14y ago
      > I have paddle shifters for the DSG but I never use them. Somehow I don't see that replicating my enjoyment of a true stick shift.
- jjcm 14y ago
  I think that the DSG transmission is always automatic, but it does have paddle shifters if you want to take over manual control.
ajtaylor 14y ago
Until late last year (when I totalled it), I had a 2009 Golf TDi which I _adored_. As you mentioned, the powerful pull of the diesel inspired many a late night ride. IMHO the TDi is the perfect combination of power, fuel economy and driving fun. My overall average fuel economy was ~5.5 L/100 km. Sorry to hear about your issues with the DSG. It Just Worked for me. The 1-2 and 2-3 shifts were flawless and I could barely feel the loss in power as it shifted. Until the last few months before my accident, I never used the manual mode. But I discovered that switching to manual mode and leaving it in 4th gear kept the diesel in the perfect power range (3500-4000 rpm) for fun drives through the local mountains of northern Sydney. And even with the harder driving, I would still end up with an average of about 6.5-7 L/100km. Very, very impressive! Here in Sydney, diesel is a bit more expensive than petrol (0.05-0.10 AUD/L). But I was shocked how much more diesel cost on a trip back to the US over Christmas. Differences of 1 USD were not uncommon. I still think that long-term even with that price difference the diesel would work out better. The only draw back about the TDi was the lack of immediate power from a stop, while the turbo spinned up. I had forgotten what it was like to move immediately until I rented a petrol car (2012 Audi A1 - and clearly inferior to the VW Golf) for 6 weeks. You can't have everything I guess. :)
- betterunix 14y ago
  What's really annoying is driving a Golf TDI in an area where everyone expects you to speed up quickly from a red light. We're talking about a second or two of difference, yet people honk, tailgate, and otherwise behave as though there is something wrong with you around where I live. Not that I personally care about appeasing such people.
  - r00fus 14y ago
    As a gas-hybrid owner, I always thought that a diesel-hybrid would be the ultimate combo - a flat-torque-curve of electric motor for snappy starts and the thrumming late-curve power of a diesel.
- spearo77 14y ago
  Just for easier comparison, 1.00USD/Gallon is about 0.26USD/Litre; Still a fair bit more, but perhaps not shockingly so?
betterunix 14y ago
"I now have to wash my hands after every fueling." I would do the same with gasoline. In fact, I wash my hands after being in a car at all, just for good measure. There are quite a few poisons that accumulate in and around cars and roads. That said, you can also do your fellow diesel drivers a favor and just wipe the handle on the pump with a paper towel, if there is one available.
to3m 14y ago
The general consensus (at least in the UK) seems to be that modern diesel cars have a potential to be ruinously expensive when they go wrong, which they are somewhat more likely to do on account of the high-precision parts operating at high temperatures and pressures in order to provide something other than the soggy performance of yore. (The emissions stuff also doesn't help.) So you have to drive a lot of miles, to guarantee a substantial saving on fuel, before buying one becomes +EV. This has been somewhat borne out by my observations. Pre-Euro IV diesels seem to be a bit better. I don't like to sound like I'm pissing on people's parade but the reputation diesel cars have for being reliable doesn't seem to be quite so true these days. The savings don't add up to a great deal compared to the cost of the car either ;) - the savings on fuel cover repairs and routine servicing on my second-hand diesel car, which works for me, but it doesn't actually add up to a huge amount per year. Maybe around £500, or $750. This is at UK fuel prices too, currently $8.20/US gallon for diesel and $7.80/US gallon for petrol, and I mainly drive my car round town, where diesels seem to be comparatively more efficient than petrol cars (though obviously it's not a great thing for either). (Of course, if my car requires nothing doing one year, or less than £500 of stuff, then I'm quids in! - but this hasn't happened yet. Hmm... maybe next year?)
- ams6110 14y ago
  I drive a 30 year old Mercedes diesel. It runs like a clock. It cost me $3,000 when I bought it 10 years ago. It's never had a major problem. I highly recommend them.
pcl 14y ago
In the US, diesel is more heavily taxed than gas [1], in no small part because it's primarily used commercially, so higher taxes are met with less popular dismay. Of course, taxes per mile make for a more interesting comparison than taxes per gallon, so the higher per-gallon tax isn't necessarily the best metric to consider. But the higher taxation does mean that fluctuations in the price of oil has less of an impact percentage-wise. [1] http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_Stat...

by buss 14y ago

stcredzero 14y ago

> Most pumps I use have a nice layer of diesel coating the handle that never goes away. I now have to wash my hands after every fueling. Disposable nitrile gloves.

pasbesoin 14y ago
I had a similar thought. When I have to fill up the portable tank for the lawn mower, I take some disposable latex gloves along. (Exposure is a short enough period of time that this seems to provide adequate protection for gasoline, at least based on the "smell test".) It's slightly wasteful, I suppose. OTOH, a random piece of plastic packaging discarded may be more wasteful. And I'd prefer to keep that stuff out of my innards. And, since gas cans in the U.S. have all been redesigned to store the pouring spout internally, I haven't found one that does not force me to get gasoline all over my hands when I use it. On sale, the latex gloves are something like US$3.50 for a box of 50 (25 pair). I think I've seen nitrile gloves for not a lot more.
- stcredzero 14y ago
  The nitrile gloves are worth it. Petroleum products don't wreck them nearly as quickly as with latex.
- akandiah 14y ago
  As noted by stcredzero, nitrile rubber performs much better when handling oil-based products. Although its physical and chemical properties vary depending on the polymer’s composition of nitrile, this form of synthetic rubber is generally resistant to oil, fuel, and other chemicals (the more nitrile within the polymer, the higher the resistance to oils but the lower the flexibility of the material). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrile_rubber http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrile_rubber

duaneb 14y ago

> * The DSG transmission has a weird bug that causes some lurching at low speeds, like the transmission suddenly up & down-shifts repeatedly. Many drivers report this same issue but my dealership won't acknowledge the problem. They have been unable to reproduce it. I can reproduce it every morning when leaving the parking garage. Is it available in manual? If so, I want it.

jmspring 14y ago
My Jetta Sportwagen (2010) is a manual TDI. I'd never go with a DSG for two reasons: 1. I like manual transmissions. 2. The added maintenance costs for the DSG for factory service is around $1k at the 40k mile point.
- buss 14y ago
  If you like manual, then the manual TDI will be very fun to drive. I can't be bothered with manual transmission, though. I have paddle shifters for the DSG but I never use them.
  - duaneb 14y ago
    > I have paddle shifters for the DSG but I never use them. Somehow I don't see that replicating my enjoyment of a true stick shift.
jjcm 14y ago
I think that the DSG transmission is always automatic, but it does have paddle shifters if you want to take over manual control.

ajtaylor 14y ago

Until late last year (when I totalled it), I had a 2009 Golf TDi which I _adored_. As you mentioned, the powerful pull of the diesel inspired many a late night ride. IMHO the TDi is the perfect combination of power, fuel economy and driving fun. My overall average fuel economy was ~5.5 L/100 km. Sorry to hear about your issues with the DSG. It Just Worked for me. The 1-2 and 2-3 shifts were flawless and I could barely feel the loss in power as it shifted. Until the last few months before my accident, I never used the manual mode. But I discovered that switching to manual mode and leaving it in 4th gear kept the diesel in the perfect power range (3500-4000 rpm) for fun drives through the local mountains of northern Sydney. And even with the harder driving, I would still end up with an average of about 6.5-7 L/100km. Very, very impressive! Here in Sydney, diesel is a bit more expensive than petrol (0.05-0.10 AUD/L). But I was shocked how much more diesel cost on a trip back to the US over Christmas. Differences of 1 USD were not uncommon. I still think that long-term even with that price difference the diesel would work out better. The only draw back about the TDi was the lack of immediate power from a stop, while the turbo spinned up. I had forgotten what it was like to move immediately until I rented a petrol car (2012 Audi A1 - and clearly inferior to the VW Golf) for 6 weeks. You can't have everything I guess. :)

betterunix 14y ago
What's really annoying is driving a Golf TDI in an area where everyone expects you to speed up quickly from a red light. We're talking about a second or two of difference, yet people honk, tailgate, and otherwise behave as though there is something wrong with you around where I live. Not that I personally care about appeasing such people.
- r00fus 14y ago
  As a gas-hybrid owner, I always thought that a diesel-hybrid would be the ultimate combo - a flat-torque-curve of electric motor for snappy starts and the thrumming late-curve power of a diesel.
spearo77 14y ago
Just for easier comparison, 1.00USD/Gallon is about 0.26USD/Litre; Still a fair bit more, but perhaps not shockingly so?

betterunix 14y ago

"I now have to wash my hands after every fueling." I would do the same with gasoline. In fact, I wash my hands after being in a car at all, just for good measure. There are quite a few poisons that accumulate in and around cars and roads. That said, you can also do your fellow diesel drivers a favor and just wipe the handle on the pump with a paper towel, if there is one available.

to3m 14y ago

The general consensus (at least in the UK) seems to be that modern diesel cars have a potential to be ruinously expensive when they go wrong, which they are somewhat more likely to do on account of the high-precision parts operating at high temperatures and pressures in order to provide something other than the soggy performance of yore. (The emissions stuff also doesn't help.) So you have to drive a lot of miles, to guarantee a substantial saving on fuel, before buying one becomes +EV. This has been somewhat borne out by my observations. Pre-Euro IV diesels seem to be a bit better. I don't like to sound like I'm pissing on people's parade but the reputation diesel cars have for being reliable doesn't seem to be quite so true these days. The savings don't add up to a great deal compared to the cost of the car either ;) - the savings on fuel cover repairs and routine servicing on my second-hand diesel car, which works for me, but it doesn't actually add up to a huge amount per year. Maybe around £500, or $750. This is at UK fuel prices too, currently $8.20/US gallon for diesel and $7.80/US gallon for petrol, and I mainly drive my car round town, where diesels seem to be comparatively more efficient than petrol cars (though obviously it's not a great thing for either). (Of course, if my car requires nothing doing one year, or less than £500 of stuff, then I'm quids in! - but this hasn't happened yet. Hmm... maybe next year?)

ams6110 14y ago
I drive a 30 year old Mercedes diesel. It runs like a clock. It cost me $3,000 when I bought it 10 years ago. It's never had a major problem. I highly recommend them.

pcl 14y ago

In the US, diesel is more heavily taxed than gas [1], in no small part because it's primarily used commercially, so higher taxes are met with less popular dismay. Of course, taxes per mile make for a more interesting comparison than taxes per gallon, so the higher per-gallon tax isn't necessarily the best metric to consider. But the higher taxation does mean that fluctuations in the price of oil has less of an impact percentage-wise. [1] http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_States http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_taxes_in_the_United_Stat...