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Wow, that second link was a really good article. Thanks for sharing. I didn't realize crows were that camera shy or observant that people were watching them bac

Wow, that second link was a really good article. Thanks for sharing. I didn't realize crows were that camera shy or observant that people were watching them back. Makes sense though they they would be paranoid when someone or some thing is paying them too much attention as 99% of the time it means something bad will come next.

nealabq 14y ago
Once I cornered a rabbit in my ally. The usual way out was blocked, and the rabbit was frantically searching the far wall for another escape while I watched. After a bit I was momentarily distracted, and the rabbit choose that moment to dash past me. Apparently the rabbit knew my attention had turned. As would a crow. They don't need our special mental abilities -- language and lambdas -- to model the mental states of those around them. (In other words, even the rabbits could tell last Saturday's party sucked as soon as they entered the room. Which is why none of them stayed.:)
- yareally 14y ago
  I guess what just surprised me was crows would be that alert when they really have the advantage on us when it comes to escaping and being aware from having the high ground and ability to fly (well unless a person is hunting them, which is unlikely in a city). That combined with their communication with each other of potential threats. I grew up on a farm around lots of wild animals and you're correct about rabbits though from my times of trying to catch them or saving baby bunnies from the cats. They're very observant, but I always figured they had much more reason to be from being alone and also limited to the ground without the ability to climb trees. I've seen some birds that have little awareness (mourning doves and some sparrows). Sometimes they don't even realize you're almost on top of them until you're right next to them and then they freak out and fly away.
- scotty79 14y ago
  Same way cats can detect whether you focus your attention at them or not. Eyes are very popular organ and seeing eyes and recognizing what they are looking at is very useful skill. I think animals get this skill as soon as they have enough physical computing power to achieve this task.
eitland 14y ago
Around here there is a saying that crows can count to 2. So as the story goes: If you are going to hunt crows from a shed you should walk 4 men into the shed and then 3 should leave. Then the crow will count one, two, many men went in and many men went out and will consider the shed empty. I don't know if it is real but I have heard it from farmers/ around where I grew up. Then again: Crows aren't too intelligent, the ladder trap seems to be effective around the world - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZLYiOn83Po http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZLYiOn83Po
- yareally 14y ago
  I wouldn't call some crows falling for a trap a clear indication of not being intelligent as there are probably many that also avoid it. Even humans fall for obvious traps again and again that many of us also avoid (phishing, Nigerian scams, pyramid schemes, link jacking, etc). Not trying to be a defender of animal intelligence, just playing devil advocate for the sake of good, intelligent conversation :)
  - eitland 14y ago
    > Not trying to be a defender of animal intelligence, just playing devil advocate for the sake of good, intelligent conversation :) And I really enjoyed it. : ) Greasemonkey Gerbil Looking at the mouse trap. Looking at the spring, thinking 'bout the bait. Understands everything. But not the link.

nealabq 14y ago

Once I cornered a rabbit in my ally. The usual way out was blocked, and the rabbit was frantically searching the far wall for another escape while I watched. After a bit I was momentarily distracted, and the rabbit choose that moment to dash past me. Apparently the rabbit knew my attention had turned. As would a crow. They don't need our special mental abilities -- language and lambdas -- to model the mental states of those around them. (In other words, even the rabbits could tell last Saturday's party sucked as soon as they entered the room. Which is why none of them stayed.:)

yareally 14y ago
I guess what just surprised me was crows would be that alert when they really have the advantage on us when it comes to escaping and being aware from having the high ground and ability to fly (well unless a person is hunting them, which is unlikely in a city). That combined with their communication with each other of potential threats. I grew up on a farm around lots of wild animals and you're correct about rabbits though from my times of trying to catch them or saving baby bunnies from the cats. They're very observant, but I always figured they had much more reason to be from being alone and also limited to the ground without the ability to climb trees. I've seen some birds that have little awareness (mourning doves and some sparrows). Sometimes they don't even realize you're almost on top of them until you're right next to them and then they freak out and fly away.
scotty79 14y ago
Same way cats can detect whether you focus your attention at them or not. Eyes are very popular organ and seeing eyes and recognizing what they are looking at is very useful skill. I think animals get this skill as soon as they have enough physical computing power to achieve this task.

eitland 14y ago

Around here there is a saying that crows can count to 2. So as the story goes: If you are going to hunt crows from a shed you should walk 4 men into the shed and then 3 should leave. Then the crow will count one, two, many men went in and many men went out and will consider the shed empty. I don't know if it is real but I have heard it from farmers/ around where I grew up. Then again: Crows aren't too intelligent, the ladder trap seems to be effective around the world - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZLYiOn83Po http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZLYiOn83Po

yareally 14y ago
I wouldn't call some crows falling for a trap a clear indication of not being intelligent as there are probably many that also avoid it. Even humans fall for obvious traps again and again that many of us also avoid (phishing, Nigerian scams, pyramid schemes, link jacking, etc). Not trying to be a defender of animal intelligence, just playing devil advocate for the sake of good, intelligent conversation :)
- eitland 14y ago
  > Not trying to be a defender of animal intelligence, just playing devil advocate for the sake of good, intelligent conversation :) And I really enjoyed it. : ) Greasemonkey Gerbil Looking at the mouse trap. Looking at the spring, thinking 'bout the bait. Understands everything. But not the link.