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They are also known to build difficult to make toys (air bubble vortex rings) to entertain themselves. They have to discover how to make it. Sometimes they can

by srean 14y ago

They are also known to build difficult to make toys (air bubble vortex rings) to entertain themselves. They have to discover how to make it. Sometimes they can be quite possessive, they would break the toy if someone not so knowledgeable wants to play with it. Once a dolphin figures it out how to make one, his/her peers eventually figure it out too. So it kind of spreads within a group like fashion. This behavior has been observed both in captivity and in the wild. https://www.google.com/search?q=dolphin+vortex+ring https://www.google.com/search?q=dolphin+vortex+ring (a time sink right here) They also have what appears to be fratricide were they bludgeon another to death targeting vital organs (I dont have a reference to this, but I recall reading it on BBC). I have seen dumber people on and around TV. I am sure there are HN'ers who are divers and have first had experience with dolphins, we would love to hear the stories.

prawn 14y ago
I wonder if there is a wider gap between the smartest and dumbest humans, and the equivalent extremes in other species? At our best, we accomplish astonishing things that melt brains to consider. However, the worst of us really are little more than what they would call (with derision) "animals", responding to base urges and the like, but dangerous, vindictive and controlling.
- bilbo0s 14y ago
  "...dangerous, vindictive and controlling..." I think the low end of human "intelligence" is something other than what you are talking about here. I think the low end of human "intelligence" would generally be associated with something more akin to mental retardation. Whereas what you're pointing out is more... like the behavior of a sociopath. Dangerous, vindictive and controlling is not a sign of a lack of intelligence... in fact... it's probably the opposite I would imagine.
  - ekianjo 14y ago
    > Dangerous, vindictive and controlling is not a sign of a lack of intelligence... in fact... it's probably the opposite I would imagine. I am not sure I understand why you think this way.
    - alan_cx 14y ago
      Because he doesn't equate "intelligence" with "good".
      - ekianjo 14y ago
        Any supporting evidence ?
        polymatter 14y ago
        Intelligence[1] "the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills" Good[2] "that which is morally right; righteousness" Intelligence relates to an ability to do something, Good (in this context) relates to a moral judgement. They may be related in that to do Good you may need Intelligence, but its conceivable that someone could have Intelligence but may not be Good, or vice versa. [1](http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/intelligence?q=intelligence http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/intelligenc...) [2](http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/good?q=good http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/good?q=good)
    - eitland 14y ago
      Because history (esp. European history I guess) will show you that brilliant techies have done really cruel things.
      - ekianjo 14y ago
        Yet history shows that the greatest "techies" (Kepler, Newton, Galileo, and others) did not work alone and were certainly depending on others to establish their theories and measurements - and many were very much "humanists" and universal thinkers who cared very little about politics and frontiers. Even Einstein who was a key player in developing nuclear power was against any use of it in military conflict. So, I would like to see your list of brilliant and yet cruel techies.
        elliptic 14y ago
  - prawn 14y ago
    Maybe it's not that, at our worst, we're capable of being so much worse than animals, but that we can just do it so well. Or the disappointment that many could do better with a little thought, but don't think much. And there are probably comparative examples of each thing in the "animal kingdom" too. Resorting quickly to violence to get our way (schoolyard thugs) or to get revenge or to intimidate (posturing gangs). Setting up cultish situations to dominate women and reap rewards of power, money and more (creepy sects). Online bullying (all over the place), gossip, etc.
stcredzero 14y ago
> They also have what appears to be fratricide were they bludgeon another to death targeting vital organs Apparently Orcas have developed this Kung-fu like thing, where they can kill a shark by just holding it. http://worldtourwhilediving.com/2012/01/13/orca-flips-over-great-white-shark-dinner-is-served-for-willys-family/ http://worldtourwhilediving.com/2012/01/13/orca-flips-over-g...
- lifeisstillgood 14y ago
  This is a form of "tonic immobility" in sharks (chickens have the same reaction if held whilst looking at a line drawn away from them) It's an attempt to feign death / stand immobile whilst danger passes. Its effective in sharks as they need water passing over their gills so if they stop swimming they are dependant on current. Of course orcas are big enough to turn a shark over - your average guy in a chain mail suit tries this with Jaws' older brother and it's three months of trying to get steel rings out of your teeth
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - networked 14y ago
    Since the great white shark needs to move to breathe [1] I assume that holding one long enough would cause it to suffocate, right? [1] http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoology/marine-life/shark-drown1.htm http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoology/marine-life/shark-d...
    - nviarnes 14y ago
      As someone who has seen a great white shark underwater from 15 feet away (shark caging), I can safely say that there is no human alive capable of holding a great white shark still. There is simply no stopping a 20ft long, 4000lb., aquatic dinosaur. Unless you're an orca I suppose. One of the most impressive and intimidating animals I have ever seen.
      - 14y ago
noonespecial 14y ago
I wonder (seriously) if I learned to create these rings myself, would I earn mad dolphin cred?
- krapp 14y ago
  Once humans can do it, it's probably no longer cool.
  - stcredzero 14y ago
    I bet they'd think it hilarious if you could fart them.
- nwh 14y ago
  The wikipedia article on them says that divers can create them too, with the aid of scuba gear.
drzaiusapelord 14y ago
I went to a dolphin show at the Vancouver Aquarium a few years back and wandered near the dolphin pool after the show. I saw one dolphin playing with what looked like a tiny piece of thread that accidentally fell into the pool. He was spitting it out, watching it dance through the water, quickly sucking it in only to spit it out and watch it wiggle, over and over. He was just entertaining himself and having a good time. They're incredible animals.

by srean 14y ago

prawn 14y ago

I wonder if there is a wider gap between the smartest and dumbest humans, and the equivalent extremes in other species? At our best, we accomplish astonishing things that melt brains to consider. However, the worst of us really are little more than what they would call (with derision) "animals", responding to base urges and the like, but dangerous, vindictive and controlling.

bilbo0s 14y ago
"...dangerous, vindictive and controlling..." I think the low end of human "intelligence" is something other than what you are talking about here. I think the low end of human "intelligence" would generally be associated with something more akin to mental retardation. Whereas what you're pointing out is more... like the behavior of a sociopath. Dangerous, vindictive and controlling is not a sign of a lack of intelligence... in fact... it's probably the opposite I would imagine.
- ekianjo 14y ago
  > Dangerous, vindictive and controlling is not a sign of a lack of intelligence... in fact... it's probably the opposite I would imagine. I am not sure I understand why you think this way.
  - alan_cx 14y ago
    Because he doesn't equate "intelligence" with "good".
    - ekianjo 14y ago
      Any supporting evidence ?
      - polymatter 14y ago
        Intelligence[1] "the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills" Good[2] "that which is morally right; righteousness" Intelligence relates to an ability to do something, Good (in this context) relates to a moral judgement. They may be related in that to do Good you may need Intelligence, but its conceivable that someone could have Intelligence but may not be Good, or vice versa. [1](http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/intelligence?q=intelligence http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/intelligenc...) [2](http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/good?q=good http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/good?q=good)
  - eitland 14y ago
    Because history (esp. European history I guess) will show you that brilliant techies have done really cruel things.
    - ekianjo 14y ago
      Yet history shows that the greatest "techies" (Kepler, Newton, Galileo, and others) did not work alone and were certainly depending on others to establish their theories and measurements - and many were very much "humanists" and universal thinkers who cared very little about politics and frontiers. Even Einstein who was a key player in developing nuclear power was against any use of it in military conflict. So, I would like to see your list of brilliant and yet cruel techies.
      - elliptic 14y ago
- prawn 14y ago
  Maybe it's not that, at our worst, we're capable of being so much worse than animals, but that we can just do it so well. Or the disappointment that many could do better with a little thought, but don't think much. And there are probably comparative examples of each thing in the "animal kingdom" too. Resorting quickly to violence to get our way (schoolyard thugs) or to get revenge or to intimidate (posturing gangs). Setting up cultish situations to dominate women and reap rewards of power, money and more (creepy sects). Online bullying (all over the place), gossip, etc.

stcredzero 14y ago

> They also have what appears to be fratricide were they bludgeon another to death targeting vital organs Apparently Orcas have developed this Kung-fu like thing, where they can kill a shark by just holding it. http://worldtourwhilediving.com/2012/01/13/orca-flips-over-great-white-shark-dinner-is-served-for-willys-family/ http://worldtourwhilediving.com/2012/01/13/orca-flips-over-g...

lifeisstillgood 14y ago
This is a form of "tonic immobility" in sharks (chickens have the same reaction if held whilst looking at a line drawn away from them) It's an attempt to feign death / stand immobile whilst danger passes. Its effective in sharks as they need water passing over their gills so if they stop swimming they are dependant on current. Of course orcas are big enough to turn a shark over - your average guy in a chain mail suit tries this with Jaws' older brother and it's three months of trying to get steel rings out of your teeth
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- networked 14y ago
  Since the great white shark needs to move to breathe [1] I assume that holding one long enough would cause it to suffocate, right? [1] http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoology/marine-life/shark-drown1.htm http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoology/marine-life/shark-d...
  - nviarnes 14y ago
    As someone who has seen a great white shark underwater from 15 feet away (shark caging), I can safely say that there is no human alive capable of holding a great white shark still. There is simply no stopping a 20ft long, 4000lb., aquatic dinosaur. Unless you're an orca I suppose. One of the most impressive and intimidating animals I have ever seen.
    - 14y ago

noonespecial 14y ago

I wonder (seriously) if I learned to create these rings myself, would I earn mad dolphin cred?

krapp 14y ago
Once humans can do it, it's probably no longer cool.
- stcredzero 14y ago
  I bet they'd think it hilarious if you could fart them.
nwh 14y ago
The wikipedia article on them says that divers can create them too, with the aid of scuba gear.

drzaiusapelord 14y ago

I went to a dolphin show at the Vancouver Aquarium a few years back and wandered near the dolphin pool after the show. I saw one dolphin playing with what looked like a tiny piece of thread that accidentally fell into the pool. He was spitting it out, watching it dance through the water, quickly sucking it in only to spit it out and watch it wiggle, over and over. He was just entertaining himself and having a good time. They're incredible animals.