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No, Rails hasn't turned into Java. Rails has matured into a complex ecosystem. Java has also matured into a complex ecosystem. Frameworks upon frameworks is a

No, Rails hasn't turned into Java. Rails has matured into a complex ecosystem. Java has also matured into a complex ecosystem. Frameworks upon frameworks is a recipe for complexity, potential performance problems, bottlenecks, and environmental/context-specific issues regardless of the language that you're using. Will there ever be a language or simple framework that is popular, solves all problems, and doesn't get more complex as its ecosystem matures? I won't bet on it, but if you figure it out, someone will still eventually compare you to a no-longer-hipster-cool framework as an insult.

tmo9d 14y ago
I added in a note, I think this is the multi-year result of not having a old, grey-haired standards committee around creating APIs. I made fun of Sun and Oracle for doing things like this for years, but after futzing around with Rails frameworks, integration, and edge-cases. I think I would have preferred to have people sitting around a conference call saying things like, "Hey Devise people, your authentication approach looks like a good standard, why don't we formalize it so we can make this stuff easier to integrate." I know this makes me sound old. I own that.
- kevinconroy 14y ago
  I, for one, welcome our W3C overlords.
  - tmo9d 14y ago
    Oh c'mon it's much much worse than that. Oracle runs the JCP not the W3C. And, yes, I admit it, I'm a jerk.
- nathanappere 14y ago
  What would be the point of making it a standard ? It's already one de-facto. I prefer to have other solutions not trying to be devise but rather solving auth problems in their own way. Also, the lack of documentation is often balanced by the great readability of the code (Which is extremely clean / straightforward for devise & omniauth & most of the strategies)
- veemjeem 14y ago
  I think the nice thing about Rails is that the core committee tries to make the core framework slimmer by removing features and stuffing them into gems. It's nice that Rails keeps features out that might be considered "core" by others, like authentication. It allows new "core-like features" to be adapted by the community.
jgjgcghjhhbfv 14y ago
That is fine and true. But if you guys know this why do rails people love to bash on Java and act like rails is the second coming of Jesus. Fine, you love your language but why the unnecessary insults? That always bugged me. A community like that is toxic.
- packet 14y ago
  As a Java developer that got in to Rails I have been saying this for years (especially since Rails 3). I'm glad someone else has finally brought the discussion to HN.
- huntedsnark 14y ago
  I really don't think that's the case anymore. At the most recent RubyConf in Denver there was nothing but love for the JVM, running Ruby on it, and even utilizing Java itself when the need arose.
- tmo9d 14y ago
  To be fair, at the time it was introduced, Rails was, in fact, the 2nd coming of Jesus. I've met DHH in person I can attest to the fact that when he walks, the faint sound of angels fills the air. It's true.

tmo9d 14y ago

I added in a note, I think this is the multi-year result of not having a old, grey-haired standards committee around creating APIs. I made fun of Sun and Oracle for doing things like this for years, but after futzing around with Rails frameworks, integration, and edge-cases. I think I would have preferred to have people sitting around a conference call saying things like, "Hey Devise people, your authentication approach looks like a good standard, why don't we formalize it so we can make this stuff easier to integrate." I know this makes me sound old. I own that.

kevinconroy 14y ago
I, for one, welcome our W3C overlords.
- tmo9d 14y ago
  Oh c'mon it's much much worse than that. Oracle runs the JCP not the W3C. And, yes, I admit it, I'm a jerk.
nathanappere 14y ago
What would be the point of making it a standard ? It's already one de-facto. I prefer to have other solutions not trying to be devise but rather solving auth problems in their own way. Also, the lack of documentation is often balanced by the great readability of the code (Which is extremely clean / straightforward for devise & omniauth & most of the strategies)
veemjeem 14y ago
I think the nice thing about Rails is that the core committee tries to make the core framework slimmer by removing features and stuffing them into gems. It's nice that Rails keeps features out that might be considered "core" by others, like authentication. It allows new "core-like features" to be adapted by the community.

jgjgcghjhhbfv 14y ago

That is fine and true. But if you guys know this why do rails people love to bash on Java and act like rails is the second coming of Jesus. Fine, you love your language but why the unnecessary insults? That always bugged me. A community like that is toxic.

packet 14y ago
As a Java developer that got in to Rails I have been saying this for years (especially since Rails 3). I'm glad someone else has finally brought the discussion to HN.
huntedsnark 14y ago
I really don't think that's the case anymore. At the most recent RubyConf in Denver there was nothing but love for the JVM, running Ruby on it, and even utilizing Java itself when the need arose.
tmo9d 14y ago
To be fair, at the time it was introduced, Rails was, in fact, the 2nd coming of Jesus. I've met DHH in person I can attest to the fact that when he walks, the faint sound of angels fills the air. It's true.