4 ms·

I like people who tell it like they see it. Sure, he could tone it down a bit, but I would prefer he does not. When you guard your words and hold back how you r

by 16s 14y ago

I like people who tell it like they see it. Sure, he could tone it down a bit, but I would prefer he does not. When you guard your words and hold back how you really feel, you are not doing anyone any favors. Saying nice, comforting things to them (while they fail and people lose their jobs) would be a greater injustice than being honest and frank. I bet no one else has ever spoken that directly about the matter. Sometimes, that's precisely what is needed.

jacquesm 14y ago
Sure, but this is not in any way productive. Another thing that bugs me is the hypocritical stance of suing Chinese tire manufacturers and then turning around and manufacturing in China. If you do something like this - it's a pretty drastic departure from good form - there ought to be a reason for it, some kind of upside to balance the obvious downsides.
- ericd 14y ago
  I think it is productive - a polite refusal would leave the minister with less information about the opinion of business leaders towards French policies. This way, he knows of a few specific issues that the CEO has with the idea of operating in France.
  - jacquesm 14y ago
    All he succeeded in communicating is that he thinks in stereotypes and is a jerk. Why do you think this letter is now on public display? Workers in France work for three hours, eat for two and talk for another three? Really? Producing in France is only expensive because of the labour costs? Or is there maybe also that pesky environmental controls issue?
    - vehementi 14y ago
      Is he lying? He says he visited the factory and observed that they worked as described, and called them on it, and they were indignant. So yes, "really".
    - ericd 14y ago
      It's not just stereotypes, he gives examples of direct observations and interactions. You can attribute it to distaste for environmental controls or anything else, but the fact is that he and many other companies are passing up locating in France. Personally, the difficulty in firing people in the event of making a hiring mistake or having a cashflow issue would discourage me from ever setting up shop there, even though I think I would really enjoy living there otherwise.
    - oelmekki 14y ago
      French here. What I'm mostly concerned here is that the guy is basically saying : "we will produce tires in China for cheap and then sell them to you, because we can". Europe has very low restrictions on imports, because it tries to implement free market as purely as possible. Many voices in France say we must be more aggressive on importation taxes, and that even US has a more protected market than us. After all, no west country can beat China in production costs. Problem is, those voices are mostly from nationalist and xenophobic parties. Even current left wing french government would not touch total free market. Now, there is the insult. Saying french workers work 3 hours a day is totally stupid. Normal work day is 8 hours for private sector, and 7 hours for public sector (but most public sector workers work 8 hours and then take a day off to compensate over worked days). The reason because average hours per day is low (see other comments) is because unemployment is high, so many people accept part time jobs and short term jobs. Now, combine the cynical stance "we can produce cheap products in China and sell them to you with no penalties" and the insult, and you've got perfect food for nationalist parties. Once again.
      - brousky 14y ago
        > Saying French workers work 3 hours a day is totally stupid. Normal work day is 8 hours for private sector, and 7 hours for public sector (but most public sector workers work 8 hours and then take a day off to compensate over worked days) He didn't say workers came to the factory for 3 hours then left. What he said was that out of the 7 hours of a work day, 1 is lost in breaks and lunch, 3 are spent chatting instead of working and there's only 3 ours of actual work being done. If you read the comments on the article the vast majority actually support what that CEO says and disapprove the actions of the CGT.
- bps4484 14y ago
  "Another thing that bugs me is the hypocritical stance of suing Chinese tire manufacturers and then turning around and manufacturing in China." I could see why you'd viscerally feel that way, but if the tariffs that are being applied in the US aren't also being applied in other countries (Europe, for example) then he is unable to compete with Chinese tires without creating a factory there to get the same subsidies.

by 16s 14y ago

jacquesm 14y ago

Sure, but this is not in any way productive. Another thing that bugs me is the hypocritical stance of suing Chinese tire manufacturers and then turning around and manufacturing in China. If you do something like this - it's a pretty drastic departure from good form - there ought to be a reason for it, some kind of upside to balance the obvious downsides.

ericd 14y ago
I think it is productive - a polite refusal would leave the minister with less information about the opinion of business leaders towards French policies. This way, he knows of a few specific issues that the CEO has with the idea of operating in France.
- jacquesm 14y ago
  All he succeeded in communicating is that he thinks in stereotypes and is a jerk. Why do you think this letter is now on public display? Workers in France work for three hours, eat for two and talk for another three? Really? Producing in France is only expensive because of the labour costs? Or is there maybe also that pesky environmental controls issue?
  - vehementi 14y ago
    Is he lying? He says he visited the factory and observed that they worked as described, and called them on it, and they were indignant. So yes, "really".
  - ericd 14y ago
    It's not just stereotypes, he gives examples of direct observations and interactions. You can attribute it to distaste for environmental controls or anything else, but the fact is that he and many other companies are passing up locating in France. Personally, the difficulty in firing people in the event of making a hiring mistake or having a cashflow issue would discourage me from ever setting up shop there, even though I think I would really enjoy living there otherwise.
  - oelmekki 14y ago
    French here. What I'm mostly concerned here is that the guy is basically saying : "we will produce tires in China for cheap and then sell them to you, because we can". Europe has very low restrictions on imports, because it tries to implement free market as purely as possible. Many voices in France say we must be more aggressive on importation taxes, and that even US has a more protected market than us. After all, no west country can beat China in production costs. Problem is, those voices are mostly from nationalist and xenophobic parties. Even current left wing french government would not touch total free market. Now, there is the insult. Saying french workers work 3 hours a day is totally stupid. Normal work day is 8 hours for private sector, and 7 hours for public sector (but most public sector workers work 8 hours and then take a day off to compensate over worked days). The reason because average hours per day is low (see other comments) is because unemployment is high, so many people accept part time jobs and short term jobs. Now, combine the cynical stance "we can produce cheap products in China and sell them to you with no penalties" and the insult, and you've got perfect food for nationalist parties. Once again.
    - brousky 14y ago
      > Saying French workers work 3 hours a day is totally stupid. Normal work day is 8 hours for private sector, and 7 hours for public sector (but most public sector workers work 8 hours and then take a day off to compensate over worked days) He didn't say workers came to the factory for 3 hours then left. What he said was that out of the 7 hours of a work day, 1 is lost in breaks and lunch, 3 are spent chatting instead of working and there's only 3 ours of actual work being done. If you read the comments on the article the vast majority actually support what that CEO says and disapprove the actions of the CGT.
bps4484 14y ago
"Another thing that bugs me is the hypocritical stance of suing Chinese tire manufacturers and then turning around and manufacturing in China." I could see why you'd viscerally feel that way, but if the tariffs that are being applied in the US aren't also being applied in other countries (Europe, for example) then he is unable to compete with Chinese tires without creating a factory there to get the same subsidies.