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Mac hacker attack reminds us why Steve Jobs hated Java

22 points by Libertatea 14y ago

Tloewald 14y ago
I suspect Steve Jobs hated client-side Java because of its appalling lack of fit and finish. I don't think there's much evidence he hated Java on servers given he marketed WebObjects for about ten years. Security concerns are just vomit icing on a fecal cake.
- wglb 14y ago
  Unpleasant and unnecessary.
Xymak1y 14y ago
Terrible article. The issue at hand is the Browser plugin, and not the programming language itself.
- pixl97 14y ago
  Java might be the best programming language since Sliced.bread and the Wheel# but if its VM and plugins are constantly having exploits found in them, it's a Serious Fucking Problem. The portable document format might be a good way to exchange documents, but the most popular viewer is a huge (commonly exploited) attack surface. The point is call your viewer, VM, or pluging something other then the name of the language so when it is found to be totally lacking security it doesn't reflect back on the language. Really the point should be to write your software correctly.
nirvana 14y ago
Is there any evidence (eg: a direct quote) [1] that Steve Jobs actually "hated Java"? I'm tired of this kind of sloppy nonsensical, and actually, dishonest attribution of opinions to Steve Jobs. It was bad enough when he was alive. Jobs clearly talked about how first class support for Java in the Mac was important back when OS X came about. He clearly wanted "write once, run anywhere" to work. I once met one of the people whose job it was at Apple was to make Java look mac like in the UI. Obviously they put a lot of effort into supporting Java. While Java may not have achieved what they hoped, it's absurd to just assume that "Steve Jobs hated Java" because its convenient for the reporter, and let's be honest, gives the reporter an excuse to put Job's name in the title. [1] The quote in the title talks about the weight of it, and how it is a drag, but doesn't express any hatred. Dishonest characterizations like this (calling it "hatred") is not just sloppy writing, it shows a lack of integrity. It's why we have uninformed people thinking google is "open" while Apple is "closed" - a lot of reporters saying that who know nothing about the actual situation (which isn't that much different between them.)
- leephillips 14y ago
  I think part of the problem is the confusion in the article among several things: the Java language, the JVM, and the Java browser plugin. It seems to me that Jobs' comments about something heavy that nobody uses are directed toward the plugin (running Java applets in the browser) and are therefore justifiable. Not much to do with the JVM and the language on the desktop, which OSX supports reasonably well.
- taproot 14y ago
  It's times like these I wish I had enough karma to downvote. Not you, but this article. Typing for pagerank.
drucken 14y ago
Seven years earlier, Steve Jobs, JavaOne Keynote 2000: "We want to bring Java back to the desktop in a really big way. I am here today to personally tell you we are working hard to make Mac the best Java delivery vehicle on the planet. The biggest thing we are doing is we are going to bundle Java 2 SE into every single copy of Mac OS X that we ship later on this year."
sigzero 14y ago
I don't think he hated it. They moved WebObjects to Java for one thing. Client side...he probably wasn't that happy with it because it didn't really "fit" the L&F of OSX.

22 points by Libertatea 14y ago

I suspect Steve Jobs hated client-side Java because of its appalling lack of fit and finish. I don't think there's much evidence he hated Java on servers given he marketed WebObjects for about ten years. Security concerns are just vomit icing on a fecal cake.

wglb 14y ago
Unpleasant and unnecessary.

Xymak1y 14y ago

Terrible article. The issue at hand is the Browser plugin, and not the programming language itself.

pixl97 14y ago
Java might be the best programming language since Sliced.bread and the Wheel# but if its VM and plugins are constantly having exploits found in them, it's a Serious Fucking Problem. The portable document format might be a good way to exchange documents, but the most popular viewer is a huge (commonly exploited) attack surface. The point is call your viewer, VM, or pluging something other then the name of the language so when it is found to be totally lacking security it doesn't reflect back on the language. Really the point should be to write your software correctly.

nirvana 14y ago

Is there any evidence (eg: a direct quote) [1] that Steve Jobs actually "hated Java"? I'm tired of this kind of sloppy nonsensical, and actually, dishonest attribution of opinions to Steve Jobs. It was bad enough when he was alive. Jobs clearly talked about how first class support for Java in the Mac was important back when OS X came about. He clearly wanted "write once, run anywhere" to work. I once met one of the people whose job it was at Apple was to make Java look mac like in the UI. Obviously they put a lot of effort into supporting Java. While Java may not have achieved what they hoped, it's absurd to just assume that "Steve Jobs hated Java" because its convenient for the reporter, and let's be honest, gives the reporter an excuse to put Job's name in the title. [1] The quote in the title talks about the weight of it, and how it is a drag, but doesn't express any hatred. Dishonest characterizations like this (calling it "hatred") is not just sloppy writing, it shows a lack of integrity. It's why we have uninformed people thinking google is "open" while Apple is "closed" - a lot of reporters saying that who know nothing about the actual situation (which isn't that much different between them.)

leephillips 14y ago
I think part of the problem is the confusion in the article among several things: the Java language, the JVM, and the Java browser plugin. It seems to me that Jobs' comments about something heavy that nobody uses are directed toward the plugin (running Java applets in the browser) and are therefore justifiable. Not much to do with the JVM and the language on the desktop, which OSX supports reasonably well.
taproot 14y ago
It's times like these I wish I had enough karma to downvote. Not you, but this article. Typing for pagerank.

drucken 14y ago

Seven years earlier, Steve Jobs, JavaOne Keynote 2000: "We want to bring Java back to the desktop in a really big way. I am here today to personally tell you we are working hard to make Mac the best Java delivery vehicle on the planet. The biggest thing we are doing is we are going to bundle Java 2 SE into every single copy of Mac OS X that we ship later on this year."

sigzero 14y ago

I don't think he hated it. They moved WebObjects to Java for one thing. Client side...he probably wasn't that happy with it because it didn't really "fit" the L&F of OSX.