5 ms·

I love simcity, but recently played it and noticed it is really paternalistic. The attitude towards development it has is very much like China - everything is

I love simcity, but recently played it and noticed it is really paternalistic. The attitude towards development it has is very much like China - everything is controlled and all land is owned by the government, and the government's job is to manage zoning, roads, schools, education, in order to make people happy. Nobody actually has any property rights - even trees don't grow without government planting efforts. Farmers can't choose their own crops. This is actually really different than what happens in the real world. Really, if a community doesn't have a school, people get together and start one. Small civic organizations evolve into permanent buildings, training schools, etc. Pickup sports leagues evolve into organizations that commission their own stadiums. If there is no fire department, a volunteer one starts. People build churches, or start them at home, whenever they feel the need. But in simcity world, everything good comes from the government. I love simcity, but I do think it's weird that there isn't a mode where you can just let people build whatever they want. I love the built-in, realistic needs people in it have - but where are the entrepreneurs who will actually start a society, or borrow money to build a building on their own? Where are the rebels who start a revolution if the government doesn't meet their needs?

mattquiros 14y ago
I think you should be playing Civilization V.
wybo 14y ago
True to some extent. Though in many countries the government has to give planning/zoning permission at least. And notice how in all versions of Sim City most buildings do appear and 'grow' by themselves. So it is not as bad as you make it sound. Also in many European countries at least, schools and other educational institutions are commissioned and payed for by the government. The same for fire-departments. Sports-stadiums, and churches are an edge case, but in most cases at least part of the funding is provided by government, and in most, if not all cases (all stadiums, maybe less so for smaller churches in industrial zones) special planning permission is required (for health and safety, noise, transport considerations, etc). So yes, there is more paternalism in Sim City than in the real world, but it is not as far off as you suggest (not for Europe at least) (revolutions, or at least riots, would be a nice addition to the game)
- kalleboo 14y ago
  I don't know about later versions, but SimCity 2000 did have riots.
michaelt 14y ago
When a game plays itself too well without user input, some people feel that takes away the fun [1]. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWbLOFGSEDo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWbLOFGSEDo
rowanseymour 14y ago
Isn't SimCity as fun as it is because the player has godlike power over everything? I can't imagine SimCity: Libertarian Edition being as much fun if you just sit back and watch entrepreneurial sims do everything themselves, followed by sim corporations taking over your sim world.
webjunkie 14y ago
You don't control a whole country, you have on city (or now "region"). Any it's made so that Sims only move to your city if you provide everything. They wouldn't move to a new city where there is nothing, no schools, no fire department. I think that's close to the real world. If there is a new town or new part of a town to be build, no one would move there unless some people in charge decide to provide basic services.
- bdunbar 14y ago
  "They wouldn't move to a new city where there is nothing, no schools, no fire department. I think that's close to the real world." Eh. The real world has a lot of examples of people doing exactly that.
guelo 14y ago
WTF. Libertarianism is like some grumpy religion, people are always trying to bring it up even when it doesn't fit. And it's so wrong about how the real world works. If a community doesn't have a school the first thing that normally happens is they form a government and elect a school board to figure how to build and fund it. Same with a fire department, even with volunteers there are a lot of expenses that need to be paid by the town. Even the sports team is normally brought to a town via the work of politicians. What these government-haters don't understand is that government IS the community. It's how a community comes together to get things done.
- bdunbar 14y ago
  "What these government-haters" Hi. libertarian here. I don't hate government. Government is probably a necessary evil. I hate obnoxious, inefficient, bug-ridden, corrupt, expensive, government. I hate government that says one thing to get elected and then promptly does another. I hate government that ostensibly is an extension of the will of the people and then acts against their expressed wishes. But I'm not grumpy about it.
  - guelo 14y ago
    Everybody wants well-run government, that's not libertarianism. Libertarians want less government, not better government.
    - bdunbar 14y ago
      I may have skipped over some steps in my thinking. But yes, a small government with few to little power is what we need.
      - UnoriginalGuy 14y ago
        Yes, because big business doesn't have enough power yet already. That's who would step in. You would reduce the size of government and corporations would just fill the power vacuum. But we all know who funds the Libertarian party anyway - corporations or billionaires (who own corporations).
bdunbar 14y ago
Simcity Libertarian edition - I'd love that. No, really, I would.

mattquiros 14y ago

I think you should be playing Civilization V.

wybo 14y ago

True to some extent. Though in many countries the government has to give planning/zoning permission at least. And notice how in all versions of Sim City most buildings do appear and 'grow' by themselves. So it is not as bad as you make it sound. Also in many European countries at least, schools and other educational institutions are commissioned and payed for by the government. The same for fire-departments. Sports-stadiums, and churches are an edge case, but in most cases at least part of the funding is provided by government, and in most, if not all cases (all stadiums, maybe less so for smaller churches in industrial zones) special planning permission is required (for health and safety, noise, transport considerations, etc). So yes, there is more paternalism in Sim City than in the real world, but it is not as far off as you suggest (not for Europe at least) (revolutions, or at least riots, would be a nice addition to the game)

kalleboo 14y ago
I don't know about later versions, but SimCity 2000 did have riots.

michaelt 14y ago

When a game plays itself too well without user input, some people feel that takes away the fun [1]. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWbLOFGSEDo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWbLOFGSEDo

rowanseymour 14y ago

Isn't SimCity as fun as it is because the player has godlike power over everything? I can't imagine SimCity: Libertarian Edition being as much fun if you just sit back and watch entrepreneurial sims do everything themselves, followed by sim corporations taking over your sim world.

webjunkie 14y ago

You don't control a whole country, you have on city (or now "region"). Any it's made so that Sims only move to your city if you provide everything. They wouldn't move to a new city where there is nothing, no schools, no fire department. I think that's close to the real world. If there is a new town or new part of a town to be build, no one would move there unless some people in charge decide to provide basic services.

bdunbar 14y ago
"They wouldn't move to a new city where there is nothing, no schools, no fire department. I think that's close to the real world." Eh. The real world has a lot of examples of people doing exactly that.

guelo 14y ago

WTF. Libertarianism is like some grumpy religion, people are always trying to bring it up even when it doesn't fit. And it's so wrong about how the real world works. If a community doesn't have a school the first thing that normally happens is they form a government and elect a school board to figure how to build and fund it. Same with a fire department, even with volunteers there are a lot of expenses that need to be paid by the town. Even the sports team is normally brought to a town via the work of politicians. What these government-haters don't understand is that government IS the community. It's how a community comes together to get things done.

bdunbar 14y ago
"What these government-haters" Hi. libertarian here. I don't hate government. Government is probably a necessary evil. I hate obnoxious, inefficient, bug-ridden, corrupt, expensive, government. I hate government that says one thing to get elected and then promptly does another. I hate government that ostensibly is an extension of the will of the people and then acts against their expressed wishes. But I'm not grumpy about it.
- guelo 14y ago
  Everybody wants well-run government, that's not libertarianism. Libertarians want less government, not better government.
  - bdunbar 14y ago
    I may have skipped over some steps in my thinking. But yes, a small government with few to little power is what we need.
    - UnoriginalGuy 14y ago
      Yes, because big business doesn't have enough power yet already. That's who would step in. You would reduce the size of government and corporations would just fill the power vacuum. But we all know who funds the Libertarian party anyway - corporations or billionaires (who own corporations).

bdunbar 14y ago

Simcity Libertarian edition - I'd love that. No, really, I would.