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Disagree. Go read the NYT editorial response, it's so full of spin it could serve as an amusement park ride. It only served to muddy the waters, give some kind

Disagree. Go read the NYT editorial response, it's so full of spin it could serve as an amusement park ride. It only served to muddy the waters, give some kind of half-not-apology, in the hopes the issue would drop. I'm surprised so many people are hating on Mr. Musk.

JumpCrisscross 14y ago
If Kim Jong-un said he was the Queen of Pluto and the Financial Times responded with "the Kim family are genetically engineered Nazis", I would still lose respect for the Financial Times. Musk's portrayal of the New York Times's response is dishonest; that burden is not lightened by the Times's original article having been similarly inventive.
softbuilder 14y ago
Being disappointed isn't the same thing as hating.
brown9-2 14y ago
Can you elaborate on what you thought was "spin" or how the public editor was unfair?
- Afforess 14y ago
  Sure. --------------- First the NYT says Broder was honest: Mr. Broder and The Times have maintained that the article was done in good faith, and that it is an honest account of what happened. Then the NYT says Broder was misleading (dishonest): Mr. Broder left himself open to valid criticism by taking what seem to be casual and imprecise notes along the journey --------------- Next, the NYT says Broder should have taken more detailed logs: A little red notebook in the front seat is no match for digitally recorded driving logs... But next the NYT says more detailed logs are pointless: I could recite chapter and verse of the test drive...I don’t think that’s useful here. --------------- And the NYT says Border did the test drive in good faith: I am convinced that he [Broder] took on the test drive in good faith But then the NYT criticizes his good faith: ...there is still plenty to argue about and few conclusions that are unassailable --------------- That's just a quick snapshot of the whiplash-inducing spin in the NYT editorial.
  - brown9-2 14y ago
    It's possible to both do something in good faith and fail to be precise in your notes. The latter does not make you "dishonest".
    - Afforess 14y ago
      I personally believe that errors of omission and misleading details are identical to dishonesty, but I understand not everyone may see it that way. That is why I said it was misleading, and parenthesized my judgement of it (dishonest).
      - eli 14y ago
        Only if it's intentional. I don't think it's possible to accidentally be dishonest.
      - robinh 14y ago
        NYT doesn't actually speak of errors of omission and misleading details anywhere. You can't just go making stuff up. To take what you quoted: Mr. Broder left himself open to valid criticism by taking what seem to be casual and imprecise notes along the journey <-- what this means is NOT what you are pretending it means. It simply means "this wasn't done in a laboratory, so you can hardly expect everything to be correct up to 6 sig figs. Therefore, feel free to point out if some specific details aren't quite right."
        SilasX 14y ago
        Indeed. The NYT public editor didn't speak of, well, anything, anywhere; she just gave a politician's spin, designed to say the right dog whistles to the right parties and hope someone other than you will take the heat. And political speeches are like yodeling: the point is to sound really nice, not to convey actual meaning.
        bigiain 14y ago
        It seems to me that when your boss, the person who jumped to your public defense immediately when criticized without first checking the facts, and the person who's businesses reputation is made or destroyed by the public perception of your trustworthiness - prints this about you, you've just been thrown under the bus: "I’ve also had a number of talks with my brother, a physician, car aficionado and Tesla fan, who has helped me balance what might have been a tendency to unconsciously side with a seasoned and respected journalist – my own “confirmation bias.” My own findings are not dissimilar to the reader I quote above, although I do not believe Mr. Broder hoped the drive would end badly. I am convinced that he took on the test drive in good faith, and told the story as he experienced it. Did he use good judgment along the way? Not especially. In particular, decisions he made at a crucial juncture – when he recharged the Model S in Norwich, Conn., a stop forced by the unexpected loss of charge overnight – were certainly instrumental in this saga’s high-drama ending." To me - that's like responding to a phone call about a reference for someone from a recruiter/employer with "Ummm, they're punctual, and, umm, they fit in OK socially - most of the time". You wouldn't jump to employ a guy who can't arrange a much more glowing reference than that - and you wouldn't believe much of what Broder writes - at least not without expecting to read poor judgement and results of flawed decisions.

JumpCrisscross 14y ago

If Kim Jong-un said he was the Queen of Pluto and the Financial Times responded with "the Kim family are genetically engineered Nazis", I would still lose respect for the Financial Times. Musk's portrayal of the New York Times's response is dishonest; that burden is not lightened by the Times's original article having been similarly inventive.

softbuilder 14y ago

Being disappointed isn't the same thing as hating.

brown9-2 14y ago

Can you elaborate on what you thought was "spin" or how the public editor was unfair?

Afforess 14y ago
Sure. --------------- First the NYT says Broder was honest: Mr. Broder and The Times have maintained that the article was done in good faith, and that it is an honest account of what happened. Then the NYT says Broder was misleading (dishonest): Mr. Broder left himself open to valid criticism by taking what seem to be casual and imprecise notes along the journey --------------- Next, the NYT says Broder should have taken more detailed logs: A little red notebook in the front seat is no match for digitally recorded driving logs... But next the NYT says more detailed logs are pointless: I could recite chapter and verse of the test drive...I don’t think that’s useful here. --------------- And the NYT says Border did the test drive in good faith: I am convinced that he [Broder] took on the test drive in good faith But then the NYT criticizes his good faith: ...there is still plenty to argue about and few conclusions that are unassailable --------------- That's just a quick snapshot of the whiplash-inducing spin in the NYT editorial.
- brown9-2 14y ago
  It's possible to both do something in good faith and fail to be precise in your notes. The latter does not make you "dishonest".
  - Afforess 14y ago
    I personally believe that errors of omission and misleading details are identical to dishonesty, but I understand not everyone may see it that way. That is why I said it was misleading, and parenthesized my judgement of it (dishonest).
    - eli 14y ago
      Only if it's intentional. I don't think it's possible to accidentally be dishonest.
    - robinh 14y ago
      NYT doesn't actually speak of errors of omission and misleading details anywhere. You can't just go making stuff up. To take what you quoted: Mr. Broder left himself open to valid criticism by taking what seem to be casual and imprecise notes along the journey <-- what this means is NOT what you are pretending it means. It simply means "this wasn't done in a laboratory, so you can hardly expect everything to be correct up to 6 sig figs. Therefore, feel free to point out if some specific details aren't quite right."
      - SilasX 14y ago
        Indeed. The NYT public editor didn't speak of, well, anything, anywhere; she just gave a politician's spin, designed to say the right dog whistles to the right parties and hope someone other than you will take the heat. And political speeches are like yodeling: the point is to sound really nice, not to convey actual meaning.
      - bigiain 14y ago
        It seems to me that when your boss, the person who jumped to your public defense immediately when criticized without first checking the facts, and the person who's businesses reputation is made or destroyed by the public perception of your trustworthiness - prints this about you, you've just been thrown under the bus: "I’ve also had a number of talks with my brother, a physician, car aficionado and Tesla fan, who has helped me balance what might have been a tendency to unconsciously side with a seasoned and respected journalist – my own “confirmation bias.” My own findings are not dissimilar to the reader I quote above, although I do not believe Mr. Broder hoped the drive would end badly. I am convinced that he took on the test drive in good faith, and told the story as he experienced it. Did he use good judgment along the way? Not especially. In particular, decisions he made at a crucial juncture – when he recharged the Model S in Norwich, Conn., a stop forced by the unexpected loss of charge overnight – were certainly instrumental in this saga’s high-drama ending." To me - that's like responding to a phone call about a reference for someone from a recruiter/employer with "Ummm, they're punctual, and, umm, they fit in OK socially - most of the time". You wouldn't jump to employ a guy who can't arrange a much more glowing reference than that - and you wouldn't believe much of what Broder writes - at least not without expecting to read poor judgement and results of flawed decisions.